I have had it with the convex grind-No more convex for me.

[j williams]

Ok I see a bunny. This must be some good stuff.

 

[ADD]

Middle one is much more cute than the other two....

Cute?

You are not from around here are you?
Sorry the pics were bad. Top knife is flat ground, the middle (cute one) is Scandi, the bottom one is hollow ground.

Google Dozier and Krein.
Maybe Sears, Scagel, Randall, Loveless, Heron, Moran, Mayo, etc. while you are at it.

 

[baldtaco-II]

 

[KiljoyKutlery]

Anyone notice that there has been a shortage of mega-post threads lately here in W&S...infact..not many heavy hitters at all. I have to say, that this could be one of the really great debates here. We have all gone round after round over the SIZE of a knife...now we are getting to the nitty-gritty....the GRIND!
I for one like this thread...we really get to see what each of us thinks of as a "user" beyond the commercial side of our collections.
I like my convex knives..my Aurora is one of my top 5, and has been for over 2 years running. I just think that the more I study "Bushcraft"..I think that it is Woodcraft..and a bit of woodcarving..Scandis are what wood workers use.

 

[J.S. Carter]

Wouldnt something like this work ALOT easier than that kit? And at about $2.00 - $3.00 per sponge, it's cost effective AND cheap!

 

[theonew]

OK I'm gonna jump in here and say that I really like the convex primary bevel on my Barkie Aurora because the blade thickness a millimeter back from the edge is still very thin. It is thinner than the the blade thickness one millimeter back from the edge on my Spyderco Mule, which has a full flat grind and a spine of .125 compared to .17 for the Barkie. The benefit of a convex primary bevel seems to me to be that you get a thick spine with a thin edge, which gives you a very strong overall blade that is still an efficient slicer. In terms of the secondary bevel, I really don't care that much. I sharpen my Aurora freehand using a standard V grind at about 10 - 12 degrees per side, it is easy and quick and I can whittle hair with it. After 5 or 6 V grind sharpenings I strop the primary bevel to help maintain the original primary bevel to continue to keep the blade thin right behind the edge. Honestly I don't really understand all this fussing around with mousepads and sandpaper.

 

[Thomas Linton]

My wife's grandfather was a professional woodcarver. He did inlaid wood art on Pullman railroad cars owned by the millionaires of the Gilded Age before WWI. Some of his work used to hang on the walls of the Pullman-Trailmobile HQ offices in Chicago. We have a couple of tables he made. Beautiful work.

I have several of his carving knives. There are all convex edged, the natural consequence of free-hand sharpening.

 

[studio]

I'll jump in. The most used grinds I have are - Scandi for everyday stuff, fine control.

The Convex for a step up in toughness/ edge durability, slight loss of control IMO.

Last is Saber ground for brutalizing.

That said I have not yet used a larger convex ground blade to do heavy chopping or batoning.

good thread,
J.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Here is a scandi done by "inmate" Charles May.
Hand rubbed D2, distal taper, green micarta, white liners, mosaic pins, and a top flight leather molded sheath....

I know it's crude but he has been behind on his orders while sharpening spoons into prison yard shivs on his cell wall.

ADD, that Charles May scandi is a beauty. Which model is it?

Doc

 

[udtjim]

If you want to start with a very good convex edge, send it to siguy:thumbup:

 

[Elen]

I'm fine with convex grinds - it's good for a lot of things, and it doesn't really "suck" at anything, unlike many other grinds. It's balanced.

However, if I'm going to be doing a lot of wood work, then I'll do it with a Scandi, because they're simply superior for that purpose, in terms of control of the edge and producing good chips off the wood. Hand sharpening a scandi may eventually give you a convex edge, but that's just the edge - the rest of the knife still retains the Scandi grind geometry, which gives you better edge control.

 

[mymindisamob]

I am a woodworker and have made a living in making furniture more often than any other profession. Grinds on my tools differ per use. A chisel grind is the most common in my experience with any hand tools used in a wood shop. Beyond that, the V-grind is the most common.
Within my knife choices though, my experiences have made me believe that convex is more useful for a larger/thicker blade and V-grinds are much more utilitarian. I find both to be simple to touch up, but I have been doing it for awhile.

Here are a couple links I find useful:
http://home.nycap.rr.com/sosak/convex.htm
http://www.knifehow.com/knifehow.php
http://www.barkriverknives.com/convex.htm

 

[Skunk Ape]

I think that you should send me all your convex edge knives(especially Barkies) so that I may dispose of them properly. ;-)

 

[kgd]

Within my knife choices though, my experiences have made me believe that convex is more useful for a larger/thicker blade and V-grinds are much more utilitarian. I find both to be simple to touch up, but I have been doing it for awhile.

I agree with this. Even though I'm a V-grind kind of guy, they pretty much suck on a thick stock knife. 3/16" is about as thick as you could go and even then a knife this thick benefits greatly from an agressive primary bevel. 1/8" and thinner seems to work nicely with a V-grind at 15o in my opinion.

 

[ADD]

ADD, that Charles May scandi is a beauty. Which model is it?

Doc

Charles May "Scandi Slitter" in D2.

Thanks for the compliment.
Charlie (an outstanding gentleman, btw) did all the work. :thumbup:
All I had to do was purchase it.

 

[ADD]

What are you guys cutting that you need to resharpen your knife "in the field"?
I guess a related question is how long are you "in the field" when you need to resharpen your knife?

Great point!

The only knives I have had to resharpen in the field (camping trips lasting up to two weeks with all gear only in back packs) have been flat ground fillet knives.

Fish scales and bones will dull an edge about as fast as anything I have come across.
As long as a food prep knife isn't used on a flat rock for a cutting board you should be OK.


Of course seeing some pics on the sub forums around here, paths to some of the campsites must be cleared of cinder blocks and rusty car doors.

If that were the case you may want to pack in a belt-grinder and not worry about the type of grind on your blade.

 

[Brian Andrews]

I remember a good review by you about axes. You mentioned that GB axes are not the best for hard wood. ( if I remember correctly) cant you say the same about fat convex grinds on knives?

Hey Gazaati,

First, let me address the axe comment. Yes, I do believe there is a better axe profile for hardwood than the one on the GB axe.

But, to support my earlier statement of "why choose one or the other" it in no way means that I am going to chuck the GB out the door, never to be seen again. It is a GREAT axe. Trips far north, it will be the one going with me.

However, it is a bit different scenario with the axe, as the more optimal hardwood profile that I eluded to is still convex :thumbup:

Now, the scandi versus convex; I am not saying I disagree with you at all. For carving hardwood, I prefer the scandi grind too.

Maybe it is not the case, but it sounds like you have abandoned convex grinds for two reason 1) Scandi is better for one task; carving hardwood. 2) You don't like sharpening.

1) Maybe you have experimented with more tasks too, but you do not specify. So, you are being very specific and you have ONE data point for comparision. I do a lot more with my main sheath knife than carve hardwood.

2) can be addressed through practice. To be honest, the mousepad thing has never worked for me and I don't use it at all.

Please don't take anything I am saying negatively. I use both types of knives, and like both. I have my personal preference for what I would you each for, and I am sure that is going to vary plenty.....as this thread will show I am just trying to point out that there is no need to take one grind and throw it completely out the window.

With all that being said, there is HUGE variation in what a convex edge can be. It is hard to make a direct comparison, because one might have a smaller radius of curvature, and another might have such a large radius that you can hardly detect it, and it looks flat. They are obviously going to differ lots in performance.

I have never owned any knife, convex or scandi that I have not immediately re-sharpened. That goes for the bark river aurora, which I happen to like. I thinned the convex, put a high polish on the edge, and IMO greatly enhanced the performance from out of the box capability.

Also, most will argue due to the nature of hand sharpening, a scandi will eventually become convex. The upper shoulder will be come rounded, and there will be a small amount of rounding near the edge. It might be so slight that it is almost undetectable, but still proves the point that the overall geometry of the convex greatly effects performance.

Now, all this last little bit sounds like I am leaning towards convex. Don't necessarily take it that way. I am currently carrying a scandi knife I am just trying to get you to not totally dismissed convex grinds all together.

If you want, you are welcome to send the Aurora to me. I will sharpen it same day, and pay to send it back to you. You probably still won't like it as much as your scandi, but I will guarantee it will be much better.

Also, I want to point durability. There seems to be a big craze for thick knives, with rather thick bevels, that are capable of chopping concrete and coming away with no damage. Well, it that particular geometry, it is possible. As most people are finding out, they don't "cut" worth a darn, and a mora will blow them away. So, if you are going to thin down a convex edge to the point that you get very similar performance to a 12.5 degree mora scandi grind, then you had better expect to not be able to chop concrete any more without some side effects For me, that is fine. I do a lot of cutting, and not much getting crazy with concrete As I have said over and over and over again: Everything is a trade-off.

Brian

 

[richard j]

i dont think gazaati is going to reply. he was a returning troll and was banned.

 

[DocArnie]

I prefer almost any grind to scandi. They are econo-grind: cheap to make and that is their only advantage.

To quote Sergey Korolyev, the guy who designed the first russian spacecrafts like sputnik and vostok: "The simpler the design, the more ingenious it is."
(sorry, didn't find the quote in english, so I had to translate it myself)

I think scandi works great. Serioulsy, I love the grind on my Mora. I'm a noob to sharpening and the scandi grind helped me breaking the ice. The grind works perfectly on wood or in the kitchen. Maybe you use it up faster and need a new knife sooner, but I don't use it THAT often. (I wish I did. If I only had more uses for my knives)

I can't complain about scandi, it works perfectly, and still I use other grinds, too. But "cheap to make and that is their only advantage"? I don't agree.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I have issues with sharpening scandi's. Takes me forever. Can't get it right without a micro bevel. Frustrating. I find convex to really excel in wood too. And the Kit you bring for convex isn't fragile like stones are for scandi.

To each his own. Your opinion is just as valid.

What do you use for your field convex kit? My 4 sided bat strop will be too big. I guess I could just pack a small piece of loaded leather. and bring a small diamond hone too in case I nick the edge.