I just ordered the new CKF Kadat

[unwisefool]

What does FRWK stand for?

I'll PM you, I'm not sure we can say the dealer without getting in trouble

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

What does FRWK stand for?

From Russia With Knives, it's the retail side of Custom Knife Factory. They're top-notch. I was dithering around about the CKF Hoback collab for a week or so, had it in my cart and everything, just couldn't manage to pull the trigger. Eventually, they emailed me with a coupon that pushed me over the edge.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

I'm just trying to understand what people think this knife should cost. The price does not seem that far off when compared to other knives in the same price range. I don't know that much about CKF or Kevin John so just trying to get a complete picture

Wasn't directed at you my friend. For whatever it's worth, I think it's priced appropriately when compared with the multiplicity of other like items priced roughly the same. The rest is just drama...

 

[unwisefool]

Wasn't directed at you my friend. For whatever it's worth, I think it's priced appropriately when compared with the multiplicity of other like items priced roughly the same. The rest is just drama...

Ah ok, sorry.

 

[Mo2]

Kevin John’s original design knives are actually quite expensive. They can be all the way up to just shy of 400$. I actually know someone who bought one and he says the knife has outstanding construction, easily as good as his Reates and other high end knives.

So Kevin John doing the manufacturing for CKF isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If anything it is good that he has moved away from making clones. What’s funny is there are actually clones of Kevin John's clones now. Other clone makers are trying to capitalize on his reputation for quality.

I in no way support cloning. I think Kevin John finding business outside of cloning is a good thing since it removes some of the highest quality clones from the market.

Just to be clear, kevin john is still making clones. He hasn't stopped.

And I do agree that the quality of ckf knives made by kj are generally high quality and I've seen a few kj originals with good quality too. The fact of the matter is they are made In China at lower costs and marked up for profits but by a larger margin. Tho tbo it is true some of these are produced In smaller batches and due to that may have a higher cost and less margin.

Stop crying foul it's all on topic.
Also they said they use usa materials... But this may not be the case for all the stuff they use. That's for sure. They have used some usa materials like carbonfiber in the past.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Just to be clear, kevin john is still making clones. He hasn't stopped.

And I do agree that the quality of ckf knives made by kj are generally high quality and I've seen a few kj originals with good quality too. The fact of the matter is they are made In China at lower costs and marked up for profits but by a larger margin. Tho tbo it is true some of these are produced In smaller batches and due to that may have a higher cost and less margin.

Stop crying foul it's all on topic.
Also they said they use usa materials... But this may not be the case for all the stuff they use. That's for sure. They have used some usa materials like carbonfiber in the past.

I just don't see why you're nitpicking the issue. You couldn't possibly be privy to the intimate details of manufacturing, selling, and shipping. I can tell you that my shipping cost to China/Russia/Not America is over double that of when I ship domestically and I'd imagine that that's the case for many of the manufacturers overseas as well. Especially when they're selling direct to consumer.

I'm not aware of who does CKF's manufacturing. I doubt you really are either, save for some unverified blog post. Frankly, I don't care. We could wade into the waters of what's "American Made" and what's not "American Made" but I doubt you'd enjoy the scrutiny required as it would be exhausting. Beyond that, why would it matter? Our economy is global. The whole "made in the USA" is losing its value. Especially when Reate, CKF, WE, Kizer, etc. are pumping out excellent examples left and right. The disparity in quality is non-existent where it matters.

It really isn't on topic. I wouldn't flame your American made knife company's related post with BS about the inner workings of the company that I have a very loose and ill-founded opinion of. Neither should you.

As for the clones, I despise them. I believe they should be universally illegal. I just don't see the relevance to this conversation. For all you know, the guy who owns the manufacturing plant of "whatever company's name" mid-tech knife could be a 10x convicted felon. What's the difference? It's just a bunch of hot air and drama drumming. Plain and simple.

 

[Lapedog]

Just to be clear, kevin john is still making clones. He hasn't stopped.

And I do agree that the quality of ckf knives made by kj are generally high quality and I've seen a few kj originals with good quality too. The fact of the matter is they are made In China at lower costs and marked up for profits but by a larger margin. Tho tbo it is true some of these are produced In smaller batches and due to that may have a higher cost and less margin.

Stop crying foul it's all on topic.
Also they said they use usa materials... But this may not be the case for all the stuff they use. That's for sure. They have used some usa materials like carbonfiber in the past.

Yes he is, but as more legitimate business rolls in hopefully he will stop. I’m not sure if he has stopped already because Kevin John clones are actually becoming extremely scarce, atleast the Striders are no where to be found. Maybe he found out what an elite operator Mc. Burger is and feared for his life.

I still see the odd Kevin John Sebenza and Hinderer but I wonder if they are real kevin john fakes (lol) or fake kevin john fakes.

One thing is for sure, no one can deny Kevin John is a quality maker. It is unfortunate he built a reputation as a counterfeiter but clearly knife making is his profession so he will continue to make knives one way or another. Although his knives are always marked Kevin John the fact he is ripping designs is still despicable. Here’s to hoping he goes straight. CKF and his Venom line are a step in the right direction.

SeppukuSamurai CKF released one of Kevin John’s Venom Line designs under a different name. I think it is fairly well substantiated that he is atleast involved with CKF in some way. That is no insult though, he is a very talented maker.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Yes he is, but as more legitimate business rolls in hopefully he will stop. I’m not sure if he has stopped already because Kevin John clones are actually becoming extremely scarce, atleast the Striders are no where to be found. Maybe he found out what an elite operator Mc. Burger is and feared for his life.

I still see the odd Kevin John Sebenza and Hinderer but I wonder if they are real kevin john fakes (lol) or fake kevin john fakes.

One thing is for sure, no one can deny Kevin John is a quality maker. It is unfortunate he built a reputation as a counterfeiter but clearly knife making is his profession so he will continue to make knives one way or another. Although his knives are always marked Kevin John the fact he is ripping designs is still despicable. Here’s to hoping he goes straight. CKF and his Venom line are a step in the right direction.

SeppukuSamurai CKF released one of Kevin John’s Venom Line designs under a different name. I think it is fairly well substantiated that he is atleast involved with CKF in some way. That is no insult though, he is a very talented maker.

I absolutely agree with everything stated above. As for their associates, I simply don't care. They've collaborated with a number of reputable makers, namely, my main man Jake Hoback. If he's okay with them, so am I. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Jake Hoback. If you question his integrity, do some digging.

My point is - None of us are privy to the intimate details of anyone's life. For all we know, we could be supporting a 10x convicted felon. The fact here is that the knife is obviously an original and has been designed by a legitimate maker and manufactured for said legitimate maker. That's all.

There are a select group of people on these forums dedicated to stirring the pot. That's uncalled for and totally unnecessary.

Custom Knife Factory awarded me with a lifetime 10% off all of their goods. Why? Because I purchased from them. I supported them, they've supported me. Want to know how many American made companies have done the same? None.

 

[Mo2]

I just don't see why you're nitpicking the issue. You couldn't possibly be privy to the intimate details of manufacturing, selling, and shipping. I can tell you that my shipping cost to China/Russia/Not America is over double that of when I ship domestically and I'd imagine that that's the case for many of the manufacturers overseas as well. Especially when they're selling direct to consumer.

I'm not aware of who does CKF's manufacturing. I doubt you really are either, save for some unverified blog post. Frankly, I don't care. We could wade into the waters of what's "American Made" and what's not "American Made" but I doubt you'd enjoy the scrutiny required as it would be exhausting. Beyond that, why would it matter? Our economy is global. The whole "made in the USA" is losing its value. Especially when Reate, CKF, WE, Kizer, etc. are pumping out excellent examples left and right. The disparity in quality is non-existent where it matters.

It really isn't on topic. I wouldn't flame your American made knife company's related post with BS about the inner workings of the company that I have a very loose and ill-founded opinion of. Neither should you.

As for the clones, I despise them. I believe they should be universally illegal. I just don't see the relevance to this conversation. For all you know, the guy who owns the manufacturing plant of "whatever company's name" mid-tech knife could be a 10x convicted felon. What's the difference? It's just a bunch of hot air and drama drumming. Plain and simple.

Truth bomb

Also I think your blowing it out of proportion with your arguments. I nearly said they were too costly for being made in China. Nothing more. I also have a ckf knife and enjoy it. I think they are designed well by ckf. Just not into most of the designs. In any case you sound like a fan boy now.

Also not a fan of wmoon but he has a point. Except zt doesn't know how to make proper lock geometry.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Yeah, you've done got me, bud. A quote from a charlatan of a knife-maker who's more or less vilified on these forums and a baseless accusation.

Let's address the charlatan - A bunch of conjecture that isn't verified by any real world testing nor experience. Not even a case study. Simply a "These are bad because they make me look bad because I overcharge" statement. Via a charlatan. Nicely done.

I'm a fan-boy? Because...? I mentioned 6 different makers? Including an American one?

IF you really must speculate, I'll clarify. The vast majority, 80%+ of my collection is American made. I own a single CKF knife, which is a collaboration with an American maker, Jake Hoback.

I think the issue between us is that I don't drink any cool-aid.

 

[evilgreg]

In the early days I was a CKF naysayer. I thought: why pay more for a knife that you could buy from one of the Chinese sites for much less just because it was shipped to Russia before it came to the US?

When it wasn't just the KJ knives rebranded, but design after design from Russian knife designers, and more and more people were talking about how much they liked the CKF knives they'd purchased, I bought some and was impressed enough to keep on buying them.

My CKF knives are fantastic, even down to the small details. For that matter, the couple of knives that I bought that were listed as being "garage sale" knives are terrific as well. So far I've haven't gotten anything like a lemon, something I can't say for some of my favorite American manufacturers.

 

[b00n]

Okay, so I thought about replying to this or not. Here are my thoughts. If CKF is associated with a counterfeiter it would be bad, but their designs aren't stolen and there is no direct link as far I can tell, if a KJ factory produces parts for them, it wouldn't be great and they should maybe reconsider, maybe KJ uses the same place as CKF because of quality/qc, guilty by association seems...questionable.
As for "china knives" that is pedantic, it is a russian brand assembling knives in russia.
BMW's aren't considered US domestics are they? (Spartanburg)
How about Toyota? (San Antonio) or was the VW Beetle a Mexican car? Or is a Dodge a chinese car because parts are sourced from overseas?

 

[Officer's Match]

CKF works with some very impressive designers, both in house and independent. Names like Jake Hoback, Matthew Christensen, Snecx Tan, Michal Gavac (Gavko), Peter Rassenti, Tashi Bharucha, Serge Panchenko, Rick Lala, Geoff "tuffthumbs", Alex Vorobyov, Alexey Konygin, Anton Malyshev and others. They are far from the only midtech builder that outsources CNC components. Right now, they are making some of the most impressive products in this market, and their customized versions are just plain amazing.

 

[evilgreg]

Right now, they are making some of the most impressive products in this market, and their customized versions are just plain amazing.

Two of my favorite knives are their customized versions, a Ratata and an SSE:

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

CKF works with some very impressive designers, both in house and independent. Names like Jake Hoback, Matthew Christensen, Snecx Tan, Michal Gavac (Gavko), Peter Rassenti, Tashi Bharucha, Serge Panchenko, Rick Lala, Geoff "tuffthumbs", Alex Vorobyov, Alexey Konygin, Anton Malyshev and others. They are far from the only midtech builder that outsources CNC components. Right now, they are making some of the most impressive products in this market, and their customized versions are just plain amazing.

Wow, talk about eye candy. If the mid-tech Kadat wasn't enough, now the custom version AND a custom Hoback collab....I really dig their work.

It's times like these that I realize why I am not a rich man. Couldn't handle the responsibility. I'd have a Lamborghini worth of pocket knives.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Okay, so I thought about replying to this or not. Here are my thoughts. If CKF is associated with a counterfeiter it would be bad, but their designs aren't stolen and there is no direct link as far I can tell, if a KJ factory produces parts for them, it wouldn't be great and they should maybe reconsider, maybe KJ uses the same place as CKF because of quality/qc, guilty by association seems...questionable.
As for "china knives" that is pedantic, it is a russian brand assembling knives in russia.
BMW's aren't considered US domestics are they? (Spartanburg)
How about Toyota? (San Antonio) or was the VW Beetle a Mexican car? Or is a Dodge a chinese car because parts are sourced from overseas?

Took the words out of my mouth. The waters are so muddied it isn't worth stirring them even further. Besides that, there isn't any legitimate proof of association save for a blog post and a legitimate collaboration. Dozens of companies collaborate with Mick Strider, shall we go there? Nah.

If CKF is working with a current counterfeiter, legitimately, I don't like this. I think that they should reconsider their associations. Will I not purchase a product from them in the future because of this? Probably not. It's all legitimate on their end and I don't know the life story of any of the CNC shops that make parts for any of my other mid-tech knives and I don't believe in double standards. I just wish people would allow others to enjoy their freaking pocket knives without hissy fitting and quoting Will Moon...

 

[b00n]

Took the words out of my mouth. The waters are so muddied it isn't worth stirring them even further. Besides that, there isn't any legitimate proof of association save for a blog post and a legitimate collaboration. Dozens of companies collaborate with Mick Strider, shall we go there? Nah.

If CKF is working with a current counterfeiter, legitimately, I don't like this. I think that they should reconsider their associations. Will I not purchase a product from them in the future because of this? Probably not. It's all legitimate on their end and I don't know the life story of any of the CNC shops that make parts for any of my other mid-tech knives and I don't believe in double standards. I just wish people would allow others to enjoy their freaking pocket knives without hissy fitting and quoting Will Moon...

CKF is making my wallet hurt though. I really want a Kadat too, and I really like the Spectra as well. The Bragga is cool but a little too intricate/artsy I think for my taste. I wish I had gotten in earlier, the SSE, Milk and Tegral would have been purchases too for me.

 

[Officer's Match]

CKF is making my wallet hurt though. I really want a Kadat too, and I really like the Spectra as well. The Bragga is cool but a little too intricate/artsy I think for my taste. I wish I had gotten in earlier, the SSE, Milk and Tegral would have been purchases too for me.

My son and I each have a CKF MILK. Best action I've ever felt bar none. Forgive my crappy iPhone4 video. Almost 4.25" of M390 in a svelte package barely 4 ounces.

 

[evilgreg]

My son and I each have a CKF MILK. Best action I've ever felt bar none. Forgive my crappy iPhone4 video. Almost 4.25" of M390 in a svelte package barely 4 ounces.

I'm in total agreement, my Milk is crazy good. Absolutely fabulous action. I've had a Thorburn and three Shiros and I would put the Milk into the "it doesn't get better than this" class, action-wise. It's so light and slim in the pocket that it doesn't feel like the large knife that it is. It's a huge knife (nearly 10" total length open) to weigh this little:

I occasionally carry the Milk or ZT 0454 and they're similar in being >4" blades that carry light and small for their size, both weighing almost exactly the same. The Milk cuts better, has better action and carries smaller, but the ZT 0454 is fancier and has a more comfortable handle in use.

 

[Lapedog]

I'm in total agreement, my Milk is crazy good. Absolutely fabulous action. I've had a Thorburn and three Shiros and I would put the Milk into the "it doesn't get better than this" class, action-wise. It's so light and slim in the pocket that it doesn't feel like the large knife that it is. It's a huge knife (nearly 10" total length open) to weigh this little:

I occasionally carry the Milk or ZT 0454 and they're similar in being >4" blades that carry light and small for their size, both weighing almost exactly the same. The Milk cuts better, has better action and carries smaller, but the ZT 0454 is fancier and has a more comfortable handle in use.

The MILK is always going to be a knife I deeply regret missing out on. Honestly it was too big for me to carry though. Other than the Terra, which is 1000$ it is the most compelling knife CKF has released.

Since I got my 452 i have been a fan of the long slim sabrelike russian designs.