I love the axis lock... but hate the Omega springs.

WillardCorspe said:
I got some bearing grease on the springs now. The action is much improved and with the amount I put on, hopefully it'll stay that way for a long time without failure.
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Are you concerned about the sticky grease attracting and holding dust and silica and anything else that could wear at the springs?

Would it be better to use a lighter oil, like CLP, that leaves a thinner film?
 
MatthewSB said:
Are you concerned about the sticky grease attracting and holding dust and silica and anything else that could wear at the springs?

Would it be better to use a lighter oil, like CLP, that leaves a thinner film?
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Not particularly, I had asked my dad about it (waaay more experience with mechanical devices than me) and he said the type I used shouldn't alter it's preformance if dust or grit entered the lock space, and that I shouldn't notice a difference for a few months. Plus, I've had bad luck with thin oils being used as lube / rust prevention on other knives. I don't know if it's my cities climate or what, but it just doesn't seem to last long.
 
Here are a couple of links to Threads on making your own Omega Springs:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...spring?highlight=replace+omega+springs+guitar

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...g-wire?highlight=replace+omega+springs+guitar

Best of luck. :)

[BTW, I have a couple dozen BMs with Axis locks, some for quite a while, and no breakage yet. I think the comments about keeping the springs dry and free of rust - and well lubed - are spot on. I suspect that is why I have never had a problem.]
 
SaintlyBrees said:
Here are a couple of links to Threads on making your own Omega Springs:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...spring?highlight=replace+omega+springs+guitar

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...g-wire?highlight=replace+omega+springs+guitar

Best of luck. :)

[BTW, I have a couple dozen BMs with Axis locks, some for quite a while, and no breakage yet. I think the comments about keeping the springs dry and free of rust - and well lubed - are spot on. I suspect that is why I have never had a problem.]
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Thanks a lot for those links! I'm sure I'll make use of them if I can't have some more sent to me.
 
Makes great sense. Just where mine broke and God knows mine was tortured with moisture and not at all opening and closing.

I do think it's a real shame they won't just send people out springs. I made them out of guitar wire and it isn't the same.

Maybe they could treat them so rust isn't an issue.

Again, I think benchmade should sell these to customers at the very least. They should just send them under warranty since it's a bad design really.

Send them out and then if someone can't do it themselve charge them to fix it. But hurting people like me and others that can easily do this is lackluster service iMO


T. Erdelyi said:
I've never broken an omega spring since they first came out with my first gen 730 Ares, I had a conservation with a friend whose a knife maker machinist and we came to the conclusion that the biggest reason for failure of the omega springs are because they are not completely dried when wet, the design makes it hard to get all the moisture out as a result the springs get rust spots on them.

Having such a small diameter wire and considering the size and location of the rust spots that form it weakens the omega spring and the flexing week typically break the spring radius/curve of the spring where the most stress is applied during compression of the spring when opening and closing the blade.

Best solution is keep it that free, use compressed air to dry the knife completely, if you don't have compressed air, hot water, as hot as you can get it, this hastens the drying because the knife and liners become a great sink holding the temperature and helping to more thoroughly dry the internals, kinda like a dishwasher does to keep the glasses from spotting.

What ever the way you dry it the point is to dry it completely, even a little rust on the spring will begin to weaken it and make it prone to failure.

JMHO & 2¢ worth.
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MatthewSB said:
Are you concerned about the sticky grease attracting and holding dust and silica and anything else that could wear at the springs?

Would it be better to use a lighter oil, like CLP, that leaves a thinner film?
Click to expand...

I do not believe so. I think products like CLP are great for their purpose, but not good choices for lubricating folding knives. Lighter oils are commonly used on knives, but I don't think they are ideal for folding knives because of the constricted movement that results in contact friction, which ultimately results in wear, plus a tendency for a liquid oil to not stay put on certain parts of a knife. While most folding knives now use a washer system that uses a material softer than steel (bronze, teflon, film, etc.), almost all folding knives still have points in which you have steel-on-steel contact (generally a hard stainless steel with the liner, and a harder stainless steel or tool steel with the blade), and this is especially true with AXIS. I am a strong believer that with the omega springs (and with most of AXIS, and with most all of folding knives), a lubricant that favors reducing friction (hence wear from repetitive contact) is by far the best choice, and this is almost never a liquid.

Many newer greases reduce the dirt buildup you mentioned greatly over greases from years past, while simultaneously providing better initial lubrication, a better operating range of temps, greater resistance to removal from water or other liquids, and great resistance to migration (a HUGE issue with knives). The actual grease used would determine how good (or not good) it is. While something like RIG grease would be less-than-desirable, I would argue that a fluoropolymer/fluorinated grease is the best choice for this sort of application.

I believe the reasons that Chris Reeve includes and sells a fluorinated grease with all of their folding knives are simple: ease of correct quantity application, smoother operation, longer maintenance intervals between reapplication, decreased fouling/gunk buildup, decreased wear, and improved service lives. Given Chris Reeve is widely held to be one of the or even THE authority when it comes to folding knives, I believe his decision on fluorinated grease confirms the suitability of this product for folders.



-------
Unfortunately, this is going to get more complicated. Sometimes, companies advocate lubricants without recognizing just how poor them perform. For a long time, Benchmade strongly advocated Militec-1, for reasons I will NEVER understand. Militec-1 is perhaps the worst lubricant ever made...it's complete crap and in many cases, worse than no oil at all! It has consistently failed government testing standards, has been proven to increase corrosion on metal over untreated, provides no actual lubrication in its wet or dry form, and the company blames independent testers for why their product performs poorly rather than improving their crap product. It is 100% snake oil. It has probably cost Benchmade money because it is useless for lubrication, encourages corrosion, and hence has probably accelerated wear on the omega springs. As Benchmade is an excellent company and one I associate with 100% integrity and 100% quality, I do not understand why they would associate themselves with that sleezeball company like Militec or use a lubricant that lowers the bar. Still, this shows that sometimes the right lubricant is not as easy to identify, and why forums like BITOG and extensive independent testing are now huuuuuuuuge.


I often here people say that any lubricant will work and that the difference isn't all that great. I could not disagree more.
 
richstag said:
Makes great sense. Just where mine broke and God knows mine was tortured with moisture and not at all opening and closing.

I do think it's a real shame they won't just send people out springs. I made them out of guitar wire and it isn't the same.

Maybe they could treat them so rust isn't an issue.

Again, I think benchmade should sell these to customers at the very least. They should just send them under warranty since it's a bad design really.

Send them out and then if someone can't do it themselve charge them to fix it. But hurting people like me and others that can easily do this is lackluster service iMO
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Agree with everything you said. Has anyone ever gotten free ones after they sent in a knife to get the springs replaced? Haven't had one break yet but i don't wanna send my knife to the factory just because a spring busted. Knife is out of commison for weeks and costs $5-$10 to ship there. Why not sell them or give them out for free to there customers? Probably cost $1 to make or less. Even 1 extra set per knife or to at least sell them individually to those who own their knives. Have 7 of their knives with axis locks and would like to get extra pair of springs for all of them just in case.
 
Ulf Krogstad said:
Agree with everything you said. Has anyone ever gotten free ones after they sent in a knife to get the springs replaced? Haven't had one break yet but i don't wanna send my knife to the factory just because a spring busted. Knife is out of commison for weeks and costs $5-$10 to ship there. Why not sell them or give them out for free to there customers? Probably cost $1 to make or less. Even 1 extra set per knife or to at least sell them individually to those who own their knives. Have 7 of their knives with axis locks and would like to get extra pair of springs for all of them just in case.
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I think that all relates to the whole "DO NOT DISASSEMBLE YOUR KNIFE" and voiding warranties if a knife is disassembled or disassembled and damaged by disassembly. But AXIS is a great system because of its simplicity, it is easy to take apart and reassemble, and it can 'swap' parts like on a Sig 226.

I am not sure why Benchmade does not encourage users to disassemble for cleaning and proper lubrication. Their knives are built to withstand this, and IMO they function best when this is done. I have a few AXIS knives I have probably taken apart and reassembled over 50 times that still are 100% in factory spec. A lot of mid-high end production makers do this. I'm sure it is in part because you will always have some people who will destroy a knife trying to take it apart. But many users can do this easily, plus the internet makes getting this information out very simple. So there are two sides to it I suppose, but I agree with you that it is frustrating to pay to send a knife in, not have it for a few weeks, and wait on someone's else to do what should cost 50 cents postage and 50 seconds of time.

The weirdest thing of this all is how every locking mechanism has its weakest point, on AXIS it is the omega springs, and of all locking mechanism weaknesses this is arguably the BEST weakest point to have because it is a simple fix that does not affect the integrity of the remainder of the knife (on other locking mechanisms, the entire knife may be rendered 100% useless and destroyed such as with a lock bar failure at the cutout). Benchmade sending out omega springs would go with this perfectly and they should be proud that the biggest downside to AXIS is a small, simple, DIY fix because if that is the worst part, then it's a helluva good design!

They could even incorporate an extra spring into the knife (there is room between the liners and handles on some of their models.)

One of the reasons the Sebenza is so highly praised is because of how easy it is to take apart. AXIS is IMO not any more difficult and should get this praise as well IMO.
 
pnsxyr said:
I think that all relates to the whole "DO NOT DISASSEMBLE YOUR KNIFE" and voiding warranties if a knife is disassembled or disassembled and damaged by disassembly. But AXIS is a great system because of its simplicity, it is easy to take apart and reassemble, and it can 'swap' parts like on a Sig 226.

I am not sure why Benchmade does not encourage users to disassemble for cleaning and proper lubrication. Their knives are built to withstand this, and IMO they function best when this is done. I have a few AXIS knives I have probably taken apart and reassembled over 50 times that still are 100% in factory spec. A lot of mid-high end production makers do this. I'm sure it is in part because you will always have some people who will destroy a knife trying to take it apart. But many users can do this easily, plus the internet makes getting this information out very simple. So there are two sides to it I suppose, but I agree with you that it is frustrating to pay to send a knife in, not have it for a few weeks, and wait on someone's else to do what should cost 50 cents postage and 50 seconds of time.

The weirdest thing of this all is how every locking mechanism has its weakest point, on AXIS it is the omega springs, and of all locking mechanism weaknesses this is arguably the BEST weakest point to have because it is a simple fix that does not affect the integrity of the remainder of the knife (on other locking mechanisms, the entire knife may be rendered 100% useless and destroyed such as with a lock bar failure at the cutout). Benchmade sending out omega springs would go with this perfectly and they should be proud that the biggest downside to AXIS is a small, simple, DIY fix because if that is the worst part, then it's a helluva good design!

They could even incorporate an extra spring into the knife (there is room between the liners and handles on some of their models.)

One of the reasons the Sebenza is so highly praised is because of how easy it is to take apart. AXIS is IMO not any more difficult and should get this praise as well IMO.
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I don't know how disassemly can be void of warrenty either but i guess i get it. Every time you have to clean out your knife you have to send it back to the factory instead of voiding warranty. Ridiculous. Granted there are people so stupid to completely ruin there knives from disassembly but people need to clean there knives out. Sending it back to the factory every time you have to disassembled you would have spent over the cost it was for the whole knife in a span of 2-3 years. They should have a warranty for taking apart their assisted knives cause those are a pain to take down and reassemble and can see how someone could muff that up(like me, have a 585 not working 100% right now ):rolleyes:. Never buying another assisted knife. Take my knives down to much and to much fuss for me. First 3 times took it down no problems but now has blade play and premature ejecting of the blade. But since it's my own fault i accept it and will work more on it til i get it right. I need more springs. Would really like another set for all of them. I wish they would make the springs stronger somehow. I personally don't mind some extra effort to retract the axis lock if in return have stronger longer lasting springs. Instead of these delicate things. Love the axis lock and that's why i keep buying but not being able to have extra springs bugs me since there so easy to install yourself and are fairly weak and chances are your gonna wish you had an extra set at some point in time.
 
One thing I noticed when I took my 810 and 950 apart, was a rub mark on the Omega spring. This was actually coming from a rough, sharp edge in the G 10 spring pocket. Using a Dremel, the spring pocket was resurfaced and polished then a dab of good quality grease applied in the pocket. I can't say that the G 10 would of worn the spring to a point of being a problem, but it looked like it could be a potential issue. Anyway, no more rubbing in that area, and no worries about the springs.
 
Akcir said:
One thing I noticed when I took my 810 and 950 apart, was a rub mark on the Omega spring. This was actually coming from a rough, sharp edge in the G 10 spring pocket. Using a Dremel, the spring pocket was resurfaced and polished then a dab of good quality grease applied in the pocket. I can't say that the G 10 would of worn the spring to a point of being a problem, but it looked like it could be a potential issue. Anyway, no more rubbing in that area, and no worries about the springs.
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^This^

You beat me to it Akcir. Yep, noticed this on my 810 as well. Milling looked hack, amatuer, like some hobbiest did it in their garage. Same, same...flat spot on Omega spring. Shortened the life span for sure. Ive compared the Omega spring scale milling to older models and they are different. Most of my BM are disco`ed. Much nicer\cleaner job done previously.
 
Very bummed to hear they won't send replacement springs. My mini grip broke a spring today, less than a year old. Sad because it was my first and favorite benchmade. I use my knives in water a lot , and some blood, and this is a terrible design considering you're not supposed to take it apart even to clean it. I've oiled the pivot and around the axis lock as well since new. I'm sure I voided my warranty just from opening one side to confirm why it was suddenly way to easy to open. So I guess now I've got to ship it to them, pay postage, plus another $20 minimum since I took it apart. I'll keep my fingers crossed as to what they tell me tomorrow, but this might be my last BM except for maybe their new fixed hunting blades.
 
Ulf Krogstad said:
I don't know how disassemly can be void of warrenty either but i guess i get it. Every time you have to clean out your knife you have to send it back to the factory instead of voiding warranty. Ridiculous. Granted there are people so stupid to completely ruin there knives from disassembly but people need to clean there knives out. Sending it back to the factory every time you have to disassembled you would have spent over the cost it was for the whole knife in a span of 2-3 years. They should have a warranty for taking apart their assisted knives cause those are a pain to take down and reassemble and can see how someone could muff that up(like me, have a 585 not working 100% right now ):rolleyes:. Never buying another assisted knife. Take my knives down to much and to much fuss for me. First 3 times took it down no problems but now has blade play and premature ejecting of the blade. But since it's my own fault i accept it and will work more on it til i get it right. I need more springs. Would really like another set for all of them. I wish they would make the springs stronger somehow. I personally don't mind some extra effort to retract the axis lock if in return have stronger longer lasting springs. Instead of these delicate things. Love the axis lock and that's why i keep buying but not being able to have extra springs bugs me since there so easy to install yourself and are fairly weak and chances are your gonna wish you had an extra set at some point in time.
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Technically, disassembly is not theoretically supposed to outright void a warranty in and of itself under a law like Magnasun Moss or whatever it is called. But it's a gray area, and sometimes damage not related to disassembly is blamed on the disassembly, and other times the exact opposite.

Benchmade notes on their website that disassembly in and of itself outright voids warranty, which I think is poor blanket liability wording given how easy AXIS is to take apart and how Benchmades are built to a quality standard that can withstand being taken apart and put back together hundreds of times with zero issues. Most mid-end makers more or less have this same clause.

To me, a Benchmade AXIS lock is a better knife once it is taken apart and cleaned. One of the first things I do with an AXIS lock is detail strip it, clean it, and put my preferred lubricant on it at the contact points I deem important...and thus far, every Benchmade I have done this to becomes a gazillion times smoother than from the factory. But some owners could be hesitant to do this and might not ever get to take full advantage of how smooth and consistent AXIS can be because of the way Benchmade words this. They could do it like Chris Reeve and make it clear their knife is made to a quality standard that it can be taken apart, BUT if the user screws something up then it will not be covered under warranty (that would also make it practical for them to send out the omega springs). I owned AXIS locks for 5 years before I took them apart...I never knew what I was missing!
 
cross1178 said:
Very bummed to hear they won't send replacement springs. My mini grip broke a spring today, less than a year old. Sad because it was my first and favorite benchmade. I use my knives in water a lot , and some blood, and this is a terrible design considering you're not supposed to take it apart even to clean it. I've oiled the pivot and around the axis lock as well since new. I'm sure I voided my warranty just from opening one side to confirm why it was suddenly way to easy to open. So I guess now I've got to ship it to them, pay postage, plus another $20 minimum since I took it apart. I'll keep my fingers crossed as to what they tell me tomorrow, but this might be my last BM except for maybe their new fixed hunting blades.
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They will repair the broken spring under warranty. The only time they charge you is if you send them a bag "O" part's. Taking off the scale to determine if the spring is broken will not void your warranty. They will fix it for free.

Any chance you took a picture of the broken spring?

Reason I ask is I read a lot of reports of broken spring's but never see any pic's. If we could see some pic's we might be able to see if there is a common theme. Like are they breaking in the same area, are the breaks clean or has been suggested is there corrosion present. Lots of speculation that corrosion is the culprit or a contributing factor. Might be something to this. Maybe if we could see some pic's we could confirm this? have our own little data base so to speak. Just an idea.

The OP say's four of his knives broke in a row. That's a lot. It would be of tremendous value to have pictures of all the broken spring's and what models they came from. To see as I said if there's a commonalty, a consistent pattern to the breakage. Also to see other broken spring's to see the same thing, is there a pattern.

To the OP, BM will make an exception and send replacement springs's to international customers. This includes Canada. I called Friday and spoke to Amber with customer service and she confirmed this. She said all you need to do is call.

All the best!


ETA: Pictures of the inside of the scale would also be useful. To see if there are any protrusions or imperfections in the G-10 or scale material that would contribute to breaking the spring.

I always follow these reports of broken springs very closely because I've been using BM knives with the AXIS lock since almost the beginning and have never had a broken spring. Couldn't even tell you how many AXIS knives I've been threw but it's a lot. Some safe queens that see little to no use, light users for around the house, and some that have seen some pretty had use while I was working in what might be considered a harsh environment and I've never had a broken spring.

One thing I have noticed is that people who report spring breakage usually say it's happened mutable times with the same knife or with mutable knives. And then the other group like myself who have never had a broken spring ever after years of use. I've also noticed that some of those who report spring breakage also say they "flip" their knives excessively. Not all but some. So far that's the only common theme I've noted and why I follow these threads so closely.
 
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pbcg said:
They will repair the broken spring under warranty. The only time they charge you is if you send them a bag "O" part's. Taking off the scale to determine if the spring is broken will not void your warranty. They will fix it for free.

Any chance you took a picture of the broken spring?

Reason I ask is I read a lot of reports of broken spring's but never see any pic's. If we could see some pic's we might be able to see if there is a common theme. Like are they breaking in the same area, are the breaks clean or has been suggested is there corrosion present. Lots of speculation that corrosion is the culprit or a contributing factor. Might be something to this. Maybe if we could see some pic's we could confirm this? have our own little data base so to speak. Just an idea.

The OP say's four of his knives broke in a row. That's a lot. It would be of tremendous value to have pictures of all the broken spring's and what models they came from. To see as I said if there's a commonalty, a consistent pattern to the breakage. Also to see other broken spring's to see the same thing, is there a pattern.

To the OP, BM will make an exception and send replacement springs's to international customers. This includes Canada. I called Friday and spoke to Amber with customer service and she confirmed this. She said all you need to do is call.

All the best!
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You've been very helpful, thank you for calling on my behalf! If I can find the broken springs I'll be sure to upload some pictures tonight or tomorrow evening.
 
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I am actually really surprised a modder hasn't figured out an even better material to make these out of and started selling them. Or would that be some kind of infringement?
 
pnsxyr said:
I think that all relates to the whole "DO NOT DISASSEMBLE YOUR KNIFE" and voiding warranties if a knife is disassembled or disassembled and damaged by disassembly. But AXIS is a great system because of its simplicity, it is easy to take apart and reassemble, and it can 'swap' parts like on a Sig 226.

I am not sure why Benchmade does not encourage users to disassemble for cleaning and proper lubrication.
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The answer is because a large number of people can't take a knife apart and get it back together safely and in this insane culture we live in people sue, and win big judgments, when they injure themselves through their own stupidity and negligence. :( The point about firearms is good, though. They're more dangerous, and no one would suggest that owers/users shouldn't clean and disassemble them...

Spyderco has the same policy on disassembly, but (like Benchmade) applies it on a common-sense basis. If you didn't cause the problem by disassembling the knife, they disregard the fact that it's been disassembled.

It is remarkable that so few knife companies encourage disassembly. Chris Reeve comes to mind immediately. I believe DPX has a similar approach. Other than that, no other companies leaps to mind. :o
 
pbcg said:
They will repair the broken spring under warranty. The only time they charge you is if you send them a bag "O" part's. Taking off the scale to determine if the spring is broken will not void your warranty. They will fix it for free.

Any chance you took a picture of the broken spring?

Reason I ask is I read a lot of reports of broken spring's but never see any pic's. If we could see some pic's we might be able to see if there is a common theme. Like are they breaking in the same area, are the breaks clean or has been suggested is there corrosion present. Lots of speculation that corrosion is the culprit or a contributing factor. Might be something to this. Maybe if we could see some pic's we could confirm this? have our own little data base so to speak. Just an idea.

The OP say's four of his knives broke in a row. That's a lot. It would be of tremendous value to have pictures of all the broken spring's and what models they came from. To see as I said if there's a commonalty, a consistent pattern to the breakage. Also to see other broken spring's to see the same thing, is there a pattern.

To the OP, BM will make an exception and send replacement springs's to international customers. This includes Canada. I called Friday and spoke to Amber with customer service and she confirmed this. She said all you need to do is call.

All the best!


ETA: Pictures of the inside of the scale would also be useful. To see if there are any protrusions or imperfections in the G-10 or scale material that would contribute to breaking the spring.

I always follow these reports of broken springs very closely because I've been using BM knives with the AXIS lock since almost the beginning and have never had a broken spring. Couldn't even tell you how many AXIS knives I've been threw but it's a lot. Some safe queens that see little to no use, light users for around the house, and some that have seen some pretty had use while I was working in what might be considered a harsh environment and I've never had a broken spring.

One thing I have noticed is that people who report spring breakage usually say it's happened mutable times with the same knife or with mutable knives. And then the other group like myself who have never had a broken spring ever after years of use. I've also noticed that some of those who report spring breakage also say they "flip" their knives excessively. Not all but some. So far that's the only common theme I've noted and why I follow these threads so closely.
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I really wish I had taken a pic now. I pulled the broken spring out and tossed it in the trash and after tonight's dinner, I didn't really want to dig thru it, but mine broke at the very bottom at the largest bend. Not sure if that's any help. I'm praying this doesn't happen to my others. Maybe it was just a fluke, I know it happens sometimes. I really hope BM makes it right because the mini grip has been one of my absolute favorites of all my knives and one of the few knives I ever considered buying 2 of.
 
Like other have said, I also have a large collection of benchmade knives and have never had any omega springs break. I can also say that the spring is one of the last components in a benchmade knife to rust.As I have found,when I attempted to sterilize a 154CM BM520 in a diluted bleach solution.I actually ment to soak it for only 15 minute but forgot it and only remembered it, two hours later. In the small bucket was a blade with several deeply pitted spots,a couple small pits on the liner, some rust on the fasteners and other hardware but no rust on the spring.Which was a total surprise to me.
 
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