I stand almost alone there are few who I would welcome to walk by my side.

Take care Old guy. Please don't let the door smack you in the ass, I have a 2X4 for that!!!
 
Keep the above remarks for yourself. This is what I mean about these forums, and why I HAD TO COME OUT OF RETIREMENT FOR THIS ONE TIME. We don`t need to mention 2x4`s even in jest. look in the mirror.
 
Point taken, however all parties need to take a rest, and move on to something else. Every one has paid their dues.::cool:
 
Old Guy said:
Point taken, however all parties need to take a rest, and move on to something else. Every one has paid their dues.::cool:
Click to expand...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but only Gold and Platinum members here at Blade forums have actually "paid their dues".

Cougar said there is more to the story, I'd believe him.
 
all parties need to take a rest, and move on to something else
Click to expand...

Agreed, but since you started this thread with your melodramatic bon voyage, you're hardly the person to tell everyone to move on.
 
Old guy,

Nothing but the best wishes to you.

One thing I don't get from you guys is how is it fair for us to allow any maker to join and start advertising his wares, when we have rules and plenty of makers who pay a nominal fee to do so. I do not understand how allowing him to continue as he was is fair to those makers and have not heard how you and others have addressed that fact.


It comes across to me that you and leatherbird (who I consider a friend) expect us to look the other way and allow that to happen. I am sorry the logic you two are using is not sound nor is it fair to the makers who support this place in order to sell their knives. Your position on that is totally unfair to them and you two have presented nothing to convince us otherwise.

Just as Shiva's bashing of other makers was out of line, so was his unwillingness to abide by the rules which allow the makers who participate here to sell knives if they wish.

No rights have been taken away. He showed his unwillingness to abide and he was banned. Should he wish to return and abide by rules we have established he would be welcomed.

It is that simple and it is up to him. To allow him back in here with no indication that he wants to abide by the rules would be a mistake on our part not to mention totally unfair to those makers who abide to those rules.


I would like to see a logical answer to that point, until then these complaints really do not hold much water.
 
Bastid said:
One thing I don't get from you guys is how is it fair for us to allow any maker to join and start advertising his wares, when we have rules and plenty of makers who pay a nominal fee to do so.
Click to expand...

This isn't the arguement, it is that he is constantly refered to in a derogatory manner in a public forum where he can't respond, there are many problems with that.

-Cliff
 
Gus,Thanks! I've always considered us to be friends also,even though I've never met ya'.I've probably clogged up your Email box up with some of my questions and I've always appreciated your input as it was spot on.:thumbup:
As far as SK selling knives without a Knifemakers membership,that was wrong.
Doug
 
Cliff Stamp said:
This isn't the arguement, it is that he is constantly refered to in a derogatory manner in a public forum where he can't respond, there are many problems with that.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

So Cliff, how would solve those problems? It has been stated that he can come back if he follows the rules, so stating that he can't respond is incorrect. At this point he is using another member here to respond to our comments, and doing a bang up job of it.
 
Old Guy said:
Keep the above remarks for yourself. This is what I mean about these forums, and why I HAD TO COME OUT OF RETIREMENT FOR THIS ONE TIME. We don`t need to mention 2x4`s even in jest. look in the mirror.
Click to expand...

Please allow me to repeat what I have said on BFC thousands of times:

2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4
2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4
2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4
2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4
2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4 2X4

I love that free speech argument you present!!!:D
 
Keith Montgomery said:
So Cliff, how would solve those problems?
Click to expand...

Focus discussion on factual discussion of the performance of his knives or lack thereof. As established by Turber, Bladeforums was supposed to be focused on the knives, not the personal characteristics of individuals behind them. I doubt James Mattis would have encouraged such discussion as is taking place regarding the individual in question. The main problems with him were also not his actions in selling knives which is what got him banned, but the fact that he made very open statements of extreme superior performance and of course any time you do this you are stating others are inferior by defination.

Instead of trying to learn and understand the nature of these claims, he was attacked, he then returned with similar. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that he faked all the rope cutting, and some of it was fairly extreme, 16 strands of one inch hemp with that size of blade shows a lot of technique and a fairly sharp blade and the ability for the same blade to cut hard wood shows something fairly unique. Discussion could have been centered on both methods (swing and sharpening) but instead attacked him for personal reasons.

-Cliff
 
He was the first to attack others with his put down of the ABS baladesmiths. That is what got people started on him. It was not that he was attacked first and then responded. He got and is getting exactly what he handed out to others. If someone comes here and pees in the pool, people are going to react in a negative fashion.

I guess in a perfect world all that would be discussed on this forum would be knives, but that is not going to happen. To tell you the truth, I would be exceptionally bored with this place if all I saw were discussions about sharpening, edge holding, this and that steel, etc.

Anyway, I don't feel the least bit sorry for the way Shiva Ki has been treated. If that makes me a bad person, I can live with that.
 
My short opinion of this situation is this.If you come in hear unheard of,start spouting outlandish claims,insult other well respected members of the knife making community,make claims of mastery etc. your gonna get your A** handed to you.Shiva got what he deserved irregardless of his knives quality.There are too many other great makers out here to have to put up with this type of behavior imo.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Focus discussion on factual discussion of the performance of his knives or lack thereof. As established by Turber, Bladeforums was supposed to be focused on the knives, not the personal characteristics of individuals behind them. I doubt James Mattis would have encouraged such discussion as is taking place regarding the individual in question. The main problems with him were also not his actions in selling knives which is what got him banned, but the fact that he made very open statements of extreme superior performance and of course any time you do this you are stating others are inferior by defination.

Instead of trying to learn and understand the nature of these claims, he was attacked, he then returned with similar. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that he faked all the rope cutting, and some of it was fairly extreme, 16 strands of one inch hemp with that size of blade shows a lot of technique and a fairly sharp blade and the ability for the same blade to cut hard wood shows something fairly unique. Discussion could have been centered on both methods (swing and sharpening) but instead attacked him for personal reasons.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

That would make this place BORING. If that were to be you might be the only member!!!

With all the different forums here there is room for lots more than knives, there's room for the men and women who make knives part of their lives.

Tha's why in the days of james Mattis the saying "So are the days of our knives" became prolific!!

And of course the thread lock would become an unnecessary device.:D
 
I posted a link for the benefit of anyone who doesn't know how to find Shiva Ki's posts for themselves. You can read the whole threads and see all the responses to his posts, too.

He repeatedly posted spam, personal attacks, and threats of violence. He repeatedly promised not to break the rules any more, and he always went right on breaking them. Don't take my word for it, read it all for yourself. My impression was he meant his promises sincerely but he was unable to keep them because he is unable to control his impulses, but don't go by my impression; if you're interested read it all for yourself and form your own opinion.

It's not difficult to be a member here. Currently 46,913 people are doing it, more by the time you read this -- but a few people can't do it....
 
Bastid said:
....No rights have been taken away. He showed his unwillingness to abide and he was banned. Should he wish to return and abide by rules we have established he would be welcomed.

It is that simple and it is up to him. To allow him back in here with no indication that he wants to abide by the rules would be a mistake on our part not to mention totally unfair to those makers who abide to those rules.


I would like to see a logical answer to that point, until then these complaints really do not hold much water.
Click to expand...

Gus, I agree that he should be afforded the opportunity. However, having read over a few of the recent messages he has asked his supporters to post on his behalf, any hope that he might comport himself any differently is, well, quite optimistic. :rolleyes:

Old Guy said:
Point taken, however all parties need to take a rest, and move on to something else. Every one has paid their dues.::cool:
Click to expand...

Old Guy - help us move on by making the choice to STOP these repetitive Shiva Ki threads.

Good health to you.

Roger
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The main problems with him were also not his actions in selling knives which is what got him banned, but the fact that he made very open statements of extreme superior performance and of course any time you do this you are stating others are inferior by defination.

-Cliff
Click to expand...


Cliff there were two main problems:
1. Selling.
2. Overt bashing other makers.

There were also the claims you speak of, but they were never a problem as far as I am concerned.

P.S. He makes a good knife (I've said that all along, you should check one out some day.)

My point that was not grasped is that these folks who are saying his rights were taken away are not considering the fact it would not have been fair to the makers who abide by the rules here.
 
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