I **SUCK** at Sharpening! Dammit!

[HeavyHanded]

^ A Norton Crystalon (silicon carbide) stone will still grind these steels as well as any other, might take a little longer. A number of folks have chimed in re S30V on India stones and reporting good results. Any of the modern steels on a natural stone will be slow going if not impossible.

 

[L2bravo]

^ A Norton Crystalon (silicon carbide) stone will still grind these steels as well as any other, might take a little longer. A number of folks have chimed in re S30V on India stones and reporting good results. Any of the modern steels on a natural stone will be slow going if not impossible.

Well, as has been the hotly contested subject, of what works for one guy, but not the other, here is my take. I have an 8'' Norton india combo. I tried to work on my new Manix 2XL in S30V, on that stone. It didn't go so well for me, not at all. However, my DMT coarse, made quick work of it. Just my experience, yours may be different. By natural stones, are you in reference to Ankansas stones? If so I would surely agree with you.

 

[ConBon]

It seems I'm the only proponent here of going to the flea market and buying good quality sharpening stones for cheap that might need a little flattening and a bath. This is how I get most of my stones, unless I pick them up off the ground and make a sharpening surface myself.

One method I thought up will really help you to fix the angle you're sharpening at if you can't remember. Get a piece of blank printer paper and use a protractor and pen to make an angle of, let's say 15 degrees to keep it simple, then use this to check against the angle you are holding the knife at. I use this method when sharpening paring knives or filet knives where I want a smaller, more precise angle that I don't normally sharpen at.

KISS,
Connor

P.S. "KISS" normally stands for Keep It Simple Stupid, but in this case it stands for Keep It Simple when Sharpening

 

[ConBon]

My forbears hunted with flintlock muskets. Most of them would have used my Browning Safari Grade semi-auto if it had been available.

Training wheels??? Indeed. Rather, modern technology versus archaic tools. Most professionals today use belt sanders or grinders. I prefer the Wicked Edge and/or Edge-Pro. I certainly have the ability to free hand sharpen if I chose to do so. But why accept a less than perfect bevel when I can have a perfect bevel? Why would I use a Flintlock when I can have a semi-auto??

As for sharpening in the field. A properly sharpened knife of a quality steel shouldn't need to be re-sharpened in the field. If you're going out for an extended period, a second knife is lighter than a stone.

Versatility is a perk of knowing how to free hand sharpen, but for many, myself included, it is very satisfying to know that the hair popping edge on your knife is not from a system, but your own skills. Plus it's relaxing and a good hobby if you ask me.

To each their own,
Connor

 

[leghog]

Leghog, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess you're not using grandpappy's old whittling pocket stone, for sharpening S30V and better. While I appreciate your nostalgia, you are also better off with an Old Timer, if that's the road you wish to take. The new high wear resistant steels, and steels that are rc'ing at 65, will laugh at your old pocket stone. Don't take my word, give it a try. You will not even touch those knives with an old norton stone. That is why some guys, like me, have a good arsenal of diamond stones, and stone made for such steels.

No. I used small DMT stones (and not a "good arsenal"). Just two. A coarse and a fine. I hone with an Arkansas hard. Have had them for nearly 3 decades. I said precisely that, and with a pic, earlier in this thread. A "good arsenal" is not necessary.

Regardless, freehand technique is exactly the same regardless of what you are sharpening or the stones you are using. Gadgetry not required. Complicating it not required. I really just isn't that hard of a skill to learn. Many seem to make it out to be much more than it truly is.

 

[L2bravo]

No. I used small DMT stones (and not a "good arsenal"). Just two. A coarse and a fine. I hone with an Arkansas hard. Have had them for nearly 3 decades. I said precisely that, and with a pic, earlier in this thread. A "good arsenal" is not necessary.

Regardless, freehand technique is exactly the same regardless of what you are sharpening or the stones you are using. Gadgetry not required. Complicating it not required. I really just isn't that hard of a skill to learn. Many seem to make it out to be much more than it truly is.

Leghog, sorry I missed your personal posts from three pages back. I'm very happy, that you're happy with your equipment. Today, I sharpened my PM2 to a mirror polish, and put a micro bevel, at 40 degrees on it. It cuts, and slices like a lazer. I did so with my Sharpmaker. You know what? Before I did this to it, I already had it razor sharp, with my DMT's. Yes, I can free hand as well. Who'da thunk?

 

[Surfingringo]

Leghog, sorry I missed your personal posts from three pages back. I'm very happy, that you're happy with your equipment. Today, I sharpened my PM2 to a mirror polish, and put a micro bevel, at 40 degrees on it. It cuts, and slices like a lazer. I did so with my Sharpmaker. You know what? Before I did this to it, I already had it razor sharp, with my DMT's. Yes, I can free hand as well. Who'da thunk?

Fully polished? hehe...i thought you were into toothy edges a couple of days ago?? You're just looking for excuses to play with your sharpeners now! . Seriously though, did you polish the micro bevel or did you finish it rough? I'm still playing around, but the best edge I'm getting on s30v is still coming from the flat side of the brown sm stones.

 

[L2bravo]

Fully polished? hehe...i thought you were into toothy edges a couple of days ago?? You're just looking for excuses to play with your sharpeners now! . Seriously though, did you polish the micro bevel or did you finish it rough? I'm still playing around, but the best edge I'm getting on s30v is still coming from the flat side of the brown sm stones.

I haven't given up up my toothy edges. I love them! I just went all in for my braggin' rights knife, just to see if I could do it. I polished the whole thing. It shines like new money, and cuts even better. Yes, I am just playing with my new toys. Not all of us get to run around on the beach every day. LOL

As far as toothy goes, I am wondering what an XC DMT at 30, with a brown 40 micro would do??? It could be brutal. That has me thinking...

 

[Skimo]

Versatility is a perk of knowing how to free hand sharpen, but for many, myself included, it is very satisfying to know that the hair popping edge on your knife is not from a system, but your own skills. Plus it's relaxing and a good hobby if you ask me.

To each their own,
Connor

There is a learning curve for systems as well, if it were so brain dead simple to use them, everyone would.

The EP knockoffs at $20 and good set if stones at $30-$100, heck probably even the stones that come with the EP knockoff. I've seen a ton of old Lansky sharpeners at garage sales, most untouched.

Given the amount of knives around that are dull, doesn't look like too simple if a skill for most.

 

[Surfingringo]

I haven't given up up my toothy edges. I love them! I just went all in for my braggin' rights knife, just to see if I could do it. I polished the whole thing. It shines like new money, and cuts even better. Yes, I am just playing with my new toys. Not all of us get to run around on the beach every day. LOL

As far as toothy goes, I am wondering what an XC DMT at 30, with a brown 40 micro would do??? It could be brutal. That has me thinking...

Actually I've been thinking about that. How much do you think it matters which grit you finish your 30 degree bevel with if you are going to put a micro bevel anyway? For example, if I'm going to back bevel with dmt xc, then micro bevel with dmt coarse, wouldn't the coarse micro bevel grind out the "teeth" of the 30 degree xc bevel? Seems to me I would end up with the same edge whether I put a coarse micro bevel on a xc primary or a polished one. Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I'm just wrong. That happens pretty often.

 

[Ben Dover]

A properly honed razor is not free hand honed. The spine is specifically engineered to hold an exact angle on the stone/strop.

The Edge-Pro, and WE are simply modern higher tech adaptations of this basic technological principle. Guided sharpening devices have been around as long as straight razors.

For those who enjoy free hand, more power to you. I don't. I love to shoot rifles, but I will not own/shoot black powder muzzle loaders.

I do not look down my nose at those who enjoy, and choose to use black powder arms. Nor so I look down my nose at those who choose to free hand sharpen.

However I do indeed take umbrage at "traditionalist snobs" who ridicule those of us who appreciate, and use, modern technology, whether it be cartridge weapons, aerodynamically advanced automobiles, or precision, guided sharpening systems.

 

[Surfingringo]

Nothing wrong with aerodynamic cars or laser sighted rifles. But riding a bicycle and using iron sights are still nice skills to have. I think I kind of missed the "ridicule" part.

Btw, I sharpen my knives with a guided system.

 

[Ben Dover]

Nothing wrong with aerodynamic cars or laser sighted rifles. But riding a bicycle and using iron sights are still nice skills to have. I think I kind of missed the "ridicule" part.

Btw, I sharpen my knives with a guided system.

Undoubtedly, any skill that you acquire is a good thing.:thumbup:

If you missed the "ridicule" part, perhaps we interpret subtle nuances differently.

 

[L2bravo]

Actually I've been thinking about that. How much do you think it matters which grit you finish your 30 degree bevel with if you are going to put a micro bevel anyway? For example, if I'm going to back bevel with dmt xc, then micro bevel with dmt coarse, wouldn't the coarse micro bevel grind out the "teeth" of the 30 degree xc bevel? Seems to me I would end up with the same edge whether I put a coarse micro bevel on a xc primary or a polished one. Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I'm just wrong. That happens pretty often.

I am not sure, for a short answer. I would think, and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it, that it matters. What I have seen in my knives, is this: Let's take for example, that we 30 with an XC, and micro with XF. You don't have an XF edge. You have an XF contact point, but once it makes it into whatever you are cutting, the teeth take over. I feel like this is particularly helpful, when you are dealing with a thicker blade, like my new Manix XL. I know that there are guys that do exactly opposite of me, and polish their back bevel, and coarse their micro. I only know that my edges are working better for me, the further I go along in developing my system, for my knives, and my uses.

Ever clean a redfish? I'll bet you have. A fine edge sucks for them! Too much stuff to make it through. A rough edge, or even serrated will torch em' fast. This is the concept I am working off of. What do you think???

 

[Surfingringo]

I am not sure, for a short answer. I would think, and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it, that it matters. What I have seen in my knives, is this: Let's take for example, that we 30 with an XC, and micro with XF. You don't have an XF edge. You have an XF contact point, but once it makes it into whatever you are cutting, the teeth take over. I feel like this is particularly helpful, when you are dealing with a thicker blade, like my new Manix XL. I know that there are guys that do exactly opposite of me, and polish their back bevel, and coarse their micro. I only know that my edges are working better for me, the further I go along in developing my system, for my knives, and my uses.

Ever clean a redfish? I'll bet you have. A fine edge sucks for them! Too much stuff to make it through. A rough edge, or even serrated will torch em' fast. This is the concept I am working off of. What do you think???

I can see using xf to micro bevel an xc 30...And getting those "polished teeth. It just seems that if you use coarse on your micro (as we've been experimenting with) the micro would eliminate those 30 degree teeth pretty quick.

Lol, I'm gonna stop now. This is starting to sound retarded since neither of us knows the answer. .

"I only know that my edges are working better for me, the further I go along in developing my system, for my knives, and my uses."

I like that quote. That pretty much sums it up doesn't it?

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

One of those guys is Chuck

I opt for full polish whenever I can

BTW, Lance, Sharpmaker is not guided system IMO. The blade is free. Lansky is a true guided, the only variables one can do are pressure and speed (on each stone).

 

[Surfingringo]

One of those guys is Chuck

I opt for full polish whenever I can

BTW, Lance, Sharpmaker is not guided system IMO. The blade is free. Lansky is a true guided, the only variables one can do are pressure and speed (on each stone).

Yeah, I stretched a bit in my attempt to establish a bit of rapport with b.d. I didn't get the hurt feelings. .

 

[bdmicarta]

I've had bad luck using a sharpmaker and discovered that I had a lot of knives with wrong angles so I bought a DMT aligner. I wanted something to maintain my angles so I could accurately reprofile, and I wanted diamond stones so I could use it on any steel. I had previously watched vids of people using the Wicked Edge system but I didn't have the money for one of those. I noticed that using the WE people would use the fine stones and strops at the same angle so I made a strop attachment for my DMT. I put some sharpie on the edge, work with the coarse stone until I see that I'm at the apex, then I use the finer stones a little bit to basically smooth out the scratches and take off the burr. At this stage the knife is plenty sharp for EDC but doesn't smoothly cut thin paper. I take a few strokes with the strop on each side and it then feels sharp and cuts thin paper easily. I think anybody could do this.

 

[leghog]

Given the amount of knives around that are dull, doesn't look like too simple if a skill for most.

Don't mistake a lack of desire for a lack of skill. Most dull knives are due to the owner not caring or not even attempting to sharpen.

 

[leghog]

I do not look down my nose at those who enjoy, and choose to use black powder arms. Nor so I look down my nose at those who choose to free hand sharpen.

The blackpowder firearm analogy is a poor one. Even with modern firearms, there is little, if anything, new under the sun. Lot's of new gadgetry in shooting though. The gadgetry is a better analogy. A better shooting analogy might be comparing the sharpening gadgets to benchrest gadgets and free hand sharpening to shooting offhand and kneeling. I don't look down my nose at benchrest, but it is impractical for anything other than attempting tiny groups. It'll never put meat on the table nor are the rifles or the shooting practices practical in the field.

To each his own, but every man should at least learn to shoot offhand and learn to sharpen free hand.