I used to like Ivory

^ laws get changed and Amended all the time the Ivory ban didn't happen in the states till like 1990. I am saying to only penalize those who continue to make trades or sales if a new law was made. So as long as you would obey it you're still a good working class citizen.

Not much different then how other game is regulated.

Fishing and hunting is all regulated to keep species in check. Pretty sure you can't harvest turtles for their shells any more. Bag limits change with fish etc. The point is to preserve a species from extinction. Not to cater to the minority that wants a material.
 
needler420 said:
... The point is to preserve a species from extinction. Not to cater to the minority that wants a material.
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The point is to harrass and confiscate from the lawful, since the poacher don't have enough wealth to be worth pursuing. As with anything else, this is all about money. Probably why the entire stinking costly mess excludes providing so much as a single bale of hay to feed a hungry elephant.

n2s
 
Maybe I'm being a little cynical but exactly what do elephants contribute? It's not like we're talking about whales or dolphins that keep a natural balance worldwide.

I don't particularly like killing for sport or for trophy but come on, elephants, as majestic as they are, don't really mean a whole lot. Not enough to get your panties in a wad.

If I was a poor African man and I could kill some elephants and sell the tusks and feed my kids for a couple of months I'd do it. I'd probably feed them the meat, too, but there may be something bad or nonsensical about eating elephant meat that I don't know about.

I don't have any ivory and probably won't but I'm not upset about it. If it genuinely upsets you then do something more than pass laws that won't work any better than any other law. Go to Africa and start hunting poachers. Don't sit here and argue and make things bad by advocating for restricting freedom even more. If you want to take my freedom away you better be doing something about your cause more than sitting in a recliner complaining.
 
warthog ivory is nice and from a nuisance species anyway....
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I've done quite a bit of research in Africa and have spoken first hand with the researchers in Krueger National Park as well as many other African refuges. When you watch those "specials keep in mind they are greatly biased and skewed towards a no kill type conservation. Though an equal contributor to numbers decline is the lack of land available due to human encroachment. Krueger Park has a population almost double it's carrying capacity. Legal ivory sales and active hunting actually provide huge money that helps fund conservation and researchers and rangers that study and protect those left alive. The Asian market drives most poaching activity where pangolins, rhinos, elephants, and most anything that runs, jumps, or flies is ground up or carved into curios. Just make sure you have the entire view of a topic before formulating a bias.
 
I have never liked ivory, or any natural material actually.
I'll take G10, Micarta, Paracord, titanium, FRN, CF, precious metals, compressed wood... over fine wood or stag or bones.

They are just pricey, useless cosmetic options, to my eyes.

I have no sympathy/empathy for ivory lovers. I just could not care less :)
 
You see articles that say that poaching from 2006-2016 has cause the most significant decrease in African elephant population in 25 years. What you might have missed is that almost all of that poaching has happened in failed states like the DRC (forest elephants) and East Africa. The conservation efforts in Southern Africa, which holds like 85% of the elephant population has been much more successful, with some populations being relocated because their are too many of them in some parks. There are somewhere between 400,000 and 500,000 elephants in Africa by some accounts.The new restrictions on intestate commerce in verifiable pre-ban ivory was a feel good measure and nothing more.
 
FullMetalJackass said:
...They are just pricey, useless cosmetic options, to my eyes.

I have no sympathy/empathy for ivory lovers. I just could not care less :)
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So how do you feel that politicians want to make regular semi-automatic rifles that look like fully automatic military weapons illegal? Care less? Judging by your handle, I suspect you care. I am not big ivory lover. To be honest, getting the one knife with elephant ivory was kind of a fling for me. But I am a big lover of freedom and individual rights. I used to be a member of the Sierra Club until I saw what they did politically which I disagreed with. I do support the Nature Conservancy. If elephants could live on their lands, I'm all for it.

I don't think the little bit of ivory used in knife and gun handles makes much difference overall and if you like the look, I am all for being allowed to choose to buy and own such. You should also be able to sell those items if you choose to without a bunch of paperwork. As the owner, I should not have to prove anything.

I think the days of free roaming elephants outside of national parks or preserves are numbered.
 
caseknife64 said:
warthog ivory is nice and from a nuisance species anyway....
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I agree they are awesome and IMO kind of more BA IMO.

I thought they were hollow? Is it just the very bottom that's hollow? Fill it with resin or just cut off the hollow part?
 
22-rimfire said:
I don't think the little bit of ivory used in knife and gun handles makes much difference overall and if you like the look, I am all for being allowed to choose to buy and own such. You should also be able to sell those items if you choose to without a bunch of paperwork. As the owner, I should not have to prove anything.
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A little bit here, a little bit there, and here is a whole elephant!

Anyway, I'm ot wanting to go onto a political/legal debate, but this bill is from the same thought process that blame people from 7 countries to be banned to enter in USA, at the same time the richer (and much more dangerous) similar countries are out of this list. Nonsense.
This ivory regulation should not be enforced in US, but in China, where most of the world's ivory is, IMHO.
 
FullMetalJackass said:
...

I have no sympathy/empathy for ivory lovers. I just could not care less :)
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I am not an ivory lover per se, but when you find a sword, knife, or whatever, with an ivory handle that was manufactured several hundreds of years ago what are you to do? The authorities have issues separating fossil ivory from newly harvested ivory. They cannot distinguish between legally imported ivory and poached ivory. Who has a certificate for an ivory product made during the 18th century, how do you prove that something was manufactured 100, 200 or more years ago, what would it cost to obtain such proof, can it be done unintrusively, and who gets to pay for it?

The only thing an outright ban does is set the stage for a miscarriage of justice. We are going to destroy Granny's piano in a fruitless effort to appease people who are too willfully ignorant to see what is being set in motion. What do we kill off next? Our cars, our TV sets, perhaps we can toss everyone's cell phone in a giant pile and set fire to it. Should we care about where we intrude so long as it makes us "feel good"? I oppose an ivory ban because it is both bad policy and bad law.

n2s
 
^ WTH does cars,TV'S and cell phones have to do with anything? Not to mention all of those are regulated.

States regulate CRT tv recycling and phones. Same with cars, certain states regulate smog. That has nothing to do with elephants going extinct or Ivory though.
 
As usual threads on Ivory evoke a lot of emotion.

The reality is that very few actually understand the practical problem of preserving a species situated on the second largest continent on the planet (Yes folks Africa is not one country but 54 countries. It is bigger than the U.S., Europe, China and India combined)

A continent racked with war, famine poverty and every form of evil in between. Add into the mix corruption in almost all levels of all governments and you have begin to scratch the surface of understand the complexities of the matter.

Now you factor in smugglers from Asian countries who pay locals in some countries a whole years wages for a single tusk and the problem becomes exponential.

If anyone thinks that banning the sale of "grandfathered" Ivory in the U.S. will have any effect on poaching in Africa, you are deluded. The problem is not in the U.S. it is in Asia.

You mind as well try and cure the problems of speeding on the roads by banning the sale of pre-70's muscle cars. It might make some people feel better but it does nothing at all to stop the poaching.
 
All,
The fact of the matter is we live in a world today that has to be politically correct on everything. Money, Greed, and Power, drive certain groups. Mammoth Ivory is not even the concern here, its everything! I am not sure that this will be overcome in the near future. Its all a joke sadly, and present in our own country. IMHO as it has been said before our "Democracy is self defeating" if you are not familiar with this statement look it up, its an eye opener. It says a lot in regards to where the US is Today. I'm out with no more comments....TD
 
leghog said:
Terrible analogy. The two issues aren't comparable in the least.
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Not so terrible in the way I used it above. They are both about personal freedoms. One the poster probably cared about a lot and the other they didn't care at all. Personal freedoms. It is like a hunter saying let's ban AR's because they have no interest in them, but other people do.
 
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