i went and did a very bad thing...

B

Blackhearted

Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
307
...i bought a knife from a company known for its knock-offs. i felt pretty bad when i ordered it, but i figured 'its only $7, itll be fun to trash and bitch about'.

well, guess what? i was wrong. so wrong that it prompted me to post this thread even though many knife knuts are going to scoff at it - and me - for praising this knife.
i just ordered two more. it was the Mtech kerambit, cost me $7.99 at a 'buy-it-now' price on ebay.

mtechkermsilver.jpg


im actually very suprised. putting it up against a $100 knife - a buck SBT in ATS-34, i am ashamed to say that it actually compared quite favorably, even considering the massive price difference (i can buy 13 mtechs for the price of one buck SBT). i chose to compare it to the SBT because both knives are of very similar dimensions/weights, and a similar 'style' of tactical knife.

the fit and finish was excellent. im shocked, really. i was expecting crap but the F&F is actually better than many >$50 knives such as CRKT, kershaw, buck, etc. in terms of the liners being flush with the scales, it beats the $100 buck SBT hands down. the liners on the buck are stamped and have visible grungy edges, while they are highly polished SS on the kerambit and are perfectly flush with the scales. the thin liners on the SBT have always made me nervous (although nothing i could do would induce them to fail), however the ones on the kerambit are 3/32" thick, and give a lot more confidence. the liner locks perfectly at the 1/3 position on the tang, and there is a solid blade stop behind the blade as well. there is not even a hair of play in any direction.

it came dull as #%&$ in the box, however it took only 15 min to regrind the edge to a shaving sharp 20°. blade was perfectly centred and well ground - ive seen CRKTs, bucks, beckers, etc with rediculously off-center edges and it was a pleasant suprise that this one was perfect. there are teflon washers at the pivot, and there was even a special tool included in the box for adjusting/removing the pivot screw. the rest of the hardware was allen bolts, which was a nice change because honestly im having trouble locating some of the microscopic torx drivers needed for many of my other knives.

the scales are G10!! unbelievable for this price. and honestly, &$#%ing infuriating. you buy an ATS-34 buck SBT for $100 and it doesnt even come with G10 scales - you have to pay an extra $10-15 for them. this $8 knife has better fit and finish and comes with quality G10 scales you see on higher end knives. it pisses me off that all this time ive been supporting american made brands with more and more inflated price tags each year, yet they cant even throw us such a small bone as including a G10 handle upgrade on a $100 knife for free. when a chinese company can give you a solid knife for $8 with G10 scales, and still make money, it makes you wonder why you cant expect the same from many >$50-100 knives.

so basically, design and F&F are excellent. the handle is more rigid than the buck SBT (a person reviewing these on a self-defense site claimed the handles werent solid enough because of the gap between the two steel rings, but i strongly disagree. you have to squeeze pretty hard for them to move, twice as hard as it takes to make the buck SBT handle, with an extra spacer at the end, flex), and honestly if you hold them in your hand (and dont look at the blade) the buck feels like the cheaper knife by far. it feels plastic and cheap while the kerambit feels solid and contoured. the first thing i did is grab a small flat file, and a half-round file, and chamfered all of the edges of the G10 scales. this gave it a much more comfortable grip, and the G10 scales have two copper layers in them which look great when you chamfer the edges and reveal them.

which brings me to the blade. its marked 440 steel. which means 440A, since if it were a better steel such as 440B or C it would be clearly marked. 440A is NOT such a bad steel for knives. id take it over AUS-4 anyday, and i have some CRKT zytel handled M16s that are AUS-4 that i paid a lot more money for. its comparable to AUS-6, and ive paid over $80 for knives made from that. with a good solid heat treat, this can be an excellent value in a knife, and give some much higher priced blades a run for their money.
and that is just what im going to do - ive disassembled the knife and im going to heat-treat the blade. it wont take long to do, and i honestly believe this little knife is a great deal for the money and a cheap addition to anyone's collection - its unique enough and will give more expensive knives a run for their money. even if you just buy it and throw it in your tackle box, its an excellent value.
now dont get me wrong - im not saying that this $8 knife is better than a buck SBT. but a better value? yeah, definitely. even when i heat-treat the blade im not going to fool myself into thinking that its as good as the ATS-34 blade heat treated by paul bos, but itll still hold its own against knives that are far more expensive, and thats enough to make it worth keeping.

now i know that many people boycott a company that also makes knockoff knives, and turn their noses up at 'cheap' knives like this one, but trust me - set your politics aside, risk a whopping $8 and be pleasantly suprised by this knife.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
now before this gets moved to 'knife reviews and testing', let me state why i posted it here in the blade discussion forum.
this isnt so much a review of this particular knife as a plea for people to look beyond the brand names and actually examine a knife on its own merits, and base their buying decision on that/price as opposed to blind brand loyalty, politics, marketing hype, etc.

its also a question of why can an $8 chinese knife still be profitable, yet feature superior fit and finish and 'premium' G10 scales, while when we point out fit and finish issues with other brand name knives we routinely praise on this forum, we are told that such faults are 'acceptable' on a production knife.
CRKT dumbs down its M16 line with zytel scales (with horrid F&F i might add) in order to 'save cost for the consumer', yet they still cost 5x as much as this knife. would they have still been profitable with G10 scales at the same price? hell yes, but slightly less so - and it all boils down to maximizing profits. why are we settling for this from top tier manufacturers?

ive spent several thousands of dollars on knife collecting. it took one $8 knife to make me realise that ive overpaid on a lot of my knives. im going to be a hell of a lot more picky now in terms of fit and finish, centered edges, flaws, etc. when an $80 internet order knife arrives from a reputable manufacturer, i open the box and frown because i see an off-center edge, a liner that engages 3/4 of the way over on the tang, or poor fit and finish -- but i cant find a single fault with an $8 chinese cheap-o™ brand knife, it certainly marks a turning point in my thinking.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
Blueeyeddevil said:
Yes, you did a very bad thing. you'll burn in hell.
Click to expand...

if thats sarcasm, you might not be familiar with the attitudes many people in this forum have towards knives such as these yet :) frankly im suprised i havent been flamed yet.

depending on how this heat-treat goes, im considering taking one of the extra ones i ordered, heat-treating it and sending it off to cliff stamp to test to death. id be interested to see how it holds up against knives costing 10-15x as much.
 
Naturally that was a sarcasting comment. what else. if you are satisfied with your purchase then I see no problem.
 
Moteng sucks!!!!!:thumbdn:

*edited* for a friend.
 
when a chinese company can give you a solid knife for $8 with G10 scales, and still make money, it makes you wonder why you cant expect the same from many >$50-100 knives.
Click to expand...

The reason your able to buy it so cheap from a Chinese manufacturer is the worker's who made it work in a sweat shop type environment and are paid wages that are so low they would be considered slave labor here.
I'm sure you now realize that the reason they're so cheap coming from there is that if a company tried to pull that off here(in good ol' USA) they would be slapped into last week by the judicial system.

Now, that's not said to insult you, as your free to spend the money you make as you please. Just think that what you paid for that knife is probably the equivalent of a week's wages for the people who put it together.
 
In answer to your multiple post on the chi-com. It's amazing how cheaply you can make somthing when you don't have development cost opting to conterfit instead. No maneys paid to the desighner, or royalties to the maker. Secondly, at the usual 35 cents a day paid to the average chi. worker, is it a wonder that they can be produced so cheaply. And I do mean cheap in the most degrading way. They are famous for mis-labeling their blades. Says 440. A junk steel at best. Dimes to donuts, its not even that. Just numbers copied, just like the knife its self, to fool the buyer. G-10? Really. How do you know. there are at least a dozen materials out there that look like g-10. Which is nothing but fiberglass in the first place. Everyone thinks Its new and expensive. It's not either. I've been using it in limited quanties for 30 years. It and its predisesor, G-3. The expence comes from the OHSA required safe guards for air born hazzards. Which makes it higher for the factories to use it. Heck, I use to get it by the barrel full as scrap at NASA. iT'S NOTHING MORE THAN ELECTRICAL INSOLATOR!!! Gave most of it away. Not worth the trouble. Guys! Its fiber glass for christ sake! Nothing exotic about it. A lot of people have been fooled by that one. Counter fitting is always cheaper than the real thing. Why is this such a supprise to you. Have a Little pride. Say no to crap.
 
misque said:
The reason your able to buy it so cheap from a Chinese manufacturer is the worker's who made it work in a sweat shop type environment and are paid wages that are so low they would be considered slave labor here.
I'm sure you now realize that the reason they're so cheap coming from there is that if a company tried to pull that off here(in good ol' USA) they would be slapped into last week by the judicial system.

Now, that's not said to insult you, as your free to spend the money you make as you please. Just think that what you paid for that knife is probably the equivalent of a week's wages for the people who put it together.
Click to expand...

ah, i see.
so how is buying a knife made in taiwan, mexico, etc any different?
why dont i hear people bashing CRKT, KA-BAR, Benchmade, SOG, Gerber, Buck, etc for utilizing sweatshop workers in taiwan, for example? or am i mistaken, and taiwan is such a bastion of workers rights, freedoms and benefits compared to china? most US companies have their knives manufactured in places like taiwan, mexico, pakistan, china, etc where labour is cheaper to reduce their costs. now even if conditions in china are worse than other areas, its still pretty much the same damned thing. what this has done is basically give me an idea of roughly how much it costs companies like these to produce their knives. its a lot lower than i thought - and even if it costs them double what i think it does to manufacture them, theyre still overcharging. the quality production knife industry is still a pretty 'niche' market - the average joe doesnt sit here in these forums reading knife reviews, he goes to walmart and buys a Buck 119 special on sale for $29.99 and is happy with it (and why not, its a good knife). what i see here is a very competitive knife for a small fraction of what top tier manufacturers are charging us, and its opened my eyes to just how much they are maximizing profits by feeding us zytel-clad bead-blasted AUS-4 bullshit.
 
LoL .. They are going to hang ya ..

I made the mistake of reviewing a Mtech once on here.. hehe.

I have to say though if you can get past that whole ethics thing.. these m-techs are really cool cheapo knives that operate fine.. IMO

~Jeff
 
For what it's worth, I have never seen an M-tech knife in my life (at least recognized one), and yours seems very nice. I am not into folding kerambits but I like yours.

Is that a copy of another knife?
 
mlovett said:
In answer to your multiple post on the chi-com. It's amazing how cheaply you can make somthing when you don't have development cost opting to conterfit instead. No maneys paid to the desighner, or royalties to the maker. Secondly, at the usual 35 cents a day paid to the average chi. worker, is it a wonder that they can be produced so cheaply. And I do mean cheap in the most degrading way. They are famous for mis-labeling their blades. Says 440. A junk steel at best. Dimes to donuts, its not even that. Just numbers copied, just like the knife its self, to fool the buyer. G-10? Really. How do you know. there are at least a dozen materials out there that look like g-10. Which is nothing but fiberglass in the first place. Everyone thinks Its new and expensive. It's not either. I've been using it in limited quanties for 30 years. It and its predisesor, G-3. The expence comes from the OHSA required safe guards for air born hazzards. Which makes it higher for the factories to use it. Heck, I use to get it by the barrel full as scrap at NASA. iT'S NOTHING MORE THAN ELECTRICAL INSOLATOR!!! Gave most of it away. Not worth the trouble. Guys! Its fiber glass for christ sake! Nothing exotic about it. A lot of people have been fooled by that one. Counter fitting is always cheaper than the real thing. Why is this such a supprise to you. Have a Little pride. Say no to crap.
Click to expand...

heh, your post has totally changed. this is why i prefer to just post a new post iif i want to say something else, as opposed to editing into oblivion, since people are doubtless replying to your pre-edit post while you edit.

either way, i dont see this as a 'ripoff'. it looks like a pretty original design to me (although Mtech has copied other knives in the past, thats true).
as for G10 - i am aware how cheap and common it is. believe me, these scales are G10. and that infuriates me more than anything - that i pay $50 for a CRKT, or $100 for a buck SBT ATS-34, and i get 'zytel' or 'taccom' BS, other names for plastic. to get G10 scales on that same ATS-34 SBT it costs another $10-15, almost the price of two of these cheap-o™ knives which have G10 scales to begin with. materials have nothing to do with 'labour' - it costs the americans just as much, or less, to procure G10 as does the chinese. so why is G10 too 'expensive' or 'uber' to have on many top-tier manufacturer's $50-100 knives, and we have to settle for crap plastic, while a cheapo™ chinese manufacturer manages to have superior fit and finish on an $8 knife and still leave room for G10 scales, and still make a profit?

perhaps you are misunderstanding my entire thread here. i didnt post this to say that 'chinese knives are superior to US knives' (hell, only a very few knives from US manufacturers are made in the USA anyways), but merely to say that we as consumers should be expecting a little bit more in terms of fit and finish and scale materials on our $50-$100 knives. if a knife made in china can do it for $8, then it shouldnt be too much to ask for in a knife made in taiwan thhat costs $50-100.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
robertmegar said:
For what it's worth, I have never seen an M-tech knife in my life (at least recognized one), and yours seems very nice. I am not into folding kerambits but I like yours.

Is that a copy of another knife?
Click to expand...

i have no idea. they have copied some benchmade, kershaw, etc handle styles in the past, however i have not seen this particular knife by any top tier knife co before. so if theyre ripping anyone off, it might be another bottom tier chinese company :) in which case, what goes around comes around.

if youve got $8 to spare check them out. its a neat little knife, and with 10 minutes of modification with a file (wear some sortof breathing protection since fibreglass+lungs=bad) makes it even sweeter.

seriously folks, these days i order a knife online, and im anxiously checking the mailbox till it arrives. more often than not when i get the package, tear it open, and hold the knife in my hands i am disappointed in some way or another, either by quality control/F&F faults or just misjudging the knife in general. here is a knife i totally expected to be a POS, and when i took it out of the box and held it in my hand i actually smiled. for $8, thats unheard of these days - thats barely half the price of a movie ticket around here.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
Blackhearted said:
heh, your post has totally changed. this is why i prefer to just post a new post iif i want to say something else, as opposed to editing into oblivion, since people are doubtless replying to your pre-edit post while you edit.

either way, i dont see this as a 'ripoff'. it looks like a pretty original design to me (although Mtech has copied other knives in the past, thats true).
as for G10 - i am aware how cheap and common it is. believe me, these scales are G10. and that infuriates me more than anything - that i pay $50 for a CRKT, or $100 for a buck SBT ATS-34, and i get 'zytel' or 'taccom' BS, other names for plastic. to get G10 scales on that same ATS-34 SBT it costs another $10-15, almost the price of two of these cheap-o™ knives which have G10 scales to begin with. materials have nothing to do with 'labour' - it costs the americans just as much, or less, to procure G10 as does the chinese. so why is G10 too 'expensive' or 'uber' to have on many top-tier manufacturer's $50-100 knives, and we have to settle for crap plastic, while a cheapo™ chinese manufacturer manages to have superior fit and finish on an $8 knife and still leave room for G10 scales, and still make a profit?

perhaps you are misunderstanding my entire thread here. i didnt post this to say that 'chinese knives are superior to US knives' (hell, only a very few knives from US manufacturers are made in the USA anyways), but merely to say that we as consumers should be expecting a little bit more in terms of fit and finish and scale materials on our $50-$100 knives. if a knife made in china can do it for $8, then it shouldnt be too much to ask for in a knife made in taiwan thhat costs $50-100.

cheers,
-gabriel
Click to expand...
You got me there. Were all getting riped off. There are a few cheaper authorized knives out there Check them out!!! http://home.earthlink.net/~michaellovett/ :D
 
Blackhearted said:
ah, i see.
so how is buying a knife made in taiwan, mexico, etc any different?
Click to expand...

Is it even possible to make a more dunder-headed statement?

If you dont know the difference between Communism and Democracy, then you are a moron. :thumbdn:
 
ah, i see.
so its acceptable to exploit a poorer nation's lower wages to manufacture your knives, as long as they arent communist?
so you gladly overpay for your knives in order to fight communism!!
how 80's, geez.
 
Blackhearted said:
ah, i see.
so its acceptable to exploit a poorer nation's lower wages to manufacture your knives, as long as they arent communist?
so you gladly overpay for your knives in order to fight communism!!
how 80's, geez.
Click to expand...

So, what you're really saying is you have no clue about anything. Of course I already had known that from some of your past posting, I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part, hoping you might have learned something, anything. . . :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top