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I wish the Becker BK7 and BK9 were 1/4 thick.

AfghanWarrior said:
Bladite said:
No it's the real deal. I have the real wholesale cost at work and it's not much of a difference. My point is steel cost in this little amount is nothing overall.
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still not a good indication of actual steel cost. those two knives are about the same width, allowing for similar stock.

the BK9 is wider than the 2, that thumb ramp doens't come for free, that's more steel removed during making yes? with some skill they might overlap things, but my impression is that the BK9 stock would have to be much wider than stock for a BK2, or other models without ramps. the BK2 probably has less waste.
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I was about to buy a BK9 to go with my BK2, but then I saw "Thickness: .188 inches"... I made a chopper a little bigger than the BK9 out of .25" stock, it's really not too heavy. Reeeeally wish the 9 was .25...
 
I have the opposite problem. I wish the BK2 was 5/32" thick. I very much doubt I'll buy a knife over 3/16" thick again, with one exception just to have it.

Takes all kinds, I guess...
 
crowmagnon said:
I was about to buy a BK9 to go with my BK2, but then I saw "Thickness: .188 inches"... I made a chopper a little bigger than the BK9 out of .25" stock, it's really not too heavy. Reeeeally wish the 9 was .25...
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I agree and I have a BK9, but also have an Ontario RD9 (.25") Knife:thumbup:
 
scouter27 said:
I have the opposite problem. I wish the BK2 was 5/32" thick. I very much doubt I'll buy a knife over 3/16" thick again, with one exception just to have it.

Takes all kinds, I guess...
Click to expand...

Lately I've been thinking about why so many people want really thick knives. I don't see any benefits. Thinner knives cut better and you can still baton with a knife under .25” if you really want to baton. I like my thinner knives more and more. I don't think I want any more knives over 3/16.
 
Afghan, I don't understand what your fetish is for a thick knife. Honestly, if you think your Cold Steel knife is thick, pop on over and get a product from Himalayan Imports. You haven't seen beefy yet. A thicker BK 7 or 9 would alter the mechanics of the knife, and reduce their useability. That's been demonstrated repeatedly in this thread by actual knifemakers and other people that know considerably more than you.

Okay, first, price. Sure, you can look at street price, but that tells you bupkiss about manufacturing price. I can tell you in point of fact that thicker stock costs a good bit more in a number of different ways. For instance, for regular 1095 at Aldo's, you're looking at a $6 difference per 4' length between 3/16 and 1/4. When you add that up to enough steel to make a production run of knives, that's serious money for the manufacturer. You are only thinking about it from your perspective. You need to look at it from the perspective of a manufacturer.

But that's not the only cost for thicker steel. Because you have that additional 1/16", it's going to take longer to grind each knife. That's additional time that you're either running machines or paying workers or both, more steel wasted, and more value added in labor. Shipping costs increase for more weight, especially if you're shipping by palette to dealers.

Outside of cost, you also aren't thinking about blade dynamics and ergonomics. Part of what makes the 9 such a good knife is the way it performs for such a light weight. It competes with much heavier and thicker blades, especially with a convexed edge, and yet is thin enough to still perform slicing tasks, and light enough to reduce fatigue, and the point of percussion is perfect to grant it good power, but still nimbleness. If you change the stock weight, you're going to be putting comparatively more weight in the blade than the tang of the handle, which will move the point of balance and percussion by inches. That will make it a whole different knife, and one that sacrifices a whole lot of it's advantages and selling points for, well, what exactly? That's something you have yet to explain. You've been given a bunch of arguments as to why the thinner stock is better by some very experienced and knowledgeable folks, but you persist in saying nothing more than "thicker is better, I like my Cold Steel knife."

In fact, the only "argument" I've heard from you involves toughness, and if you do a little research and reading, you'll discover that a proper heat treat is the critical factor in that. Even an 1/8" knife can be more sturdy than a 3/8" knife if the heat treat and temper is done right.

If you really want a big monstrosity of a chopper, go get yourself an HI with a 1/2" blade. I can't really see why you'd even want such a thing, but to each his own.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Afghan, I don't understand what your fetish is for a thick knife. Honestly, if you think your Cold Steel knife is thick, pop on over and get a product from Himalayan Imports. You haven't seen beefy yet. A thicker BK 7 or 9 would alter the mechanics of the knife, and reduce their useability. That's been demonstrated repeatedly in this thread by actual knifemakers and other people that know considerably more than you.

Okay, first, price. Sure, you can look at street price, but that tells you bupkiss about manufacturing price. I can tell you in point of fact that thicker stock costs a good bit more in a number of different ways. For instance, for regular 1095 at Aldo's, you're looking at a $6 difference per 4' length between 3/16 and 1/4. When you add that up to enough steel to make a production run of knives, that's serious money for the manufacturer. You are only thinking about it from your perspective. You need to look at it from the perspective of a manufacturer.

But that's not the only cost for thicker steel. Because you have that additional 1/16", it's going to take longer to grind each knife. That's additional time that you're either running machines or paying workers or both, more steel wasted, and more value added in labor. Shipping costs increase for more weight, especially if you're shipping by palette to dealers.

Outside of cost, you also aren't thinking about blade dynamics and ergonomics. Part of what makes the 9 such a good knife is the way it performs for such a light weight. It competes with much heavier and thicker blades, especially with a convexed edge, and yet is thin enough to still perform slicing tasks, and light enough to reduce fatigue, and the point of percussion is perfect to grant it good power, but still nimbleness. If you change the stock weight, you're going to be putting comparatively more weight in the blade than the tang of the handle, which will move the point of balance and percussion by inches. That will make it a whole different knife, and one that sacrifices a whole lot of it's advantages and selling points for, well, what exactly? That's something you have yet to explain. You've been given a bunch of arguments as to why the thinner stock is better by some very experienced and knowledgeable folks, but you persist in saying nothing more than "thicker is better, I like my Cold Steel knife."

In fact, the only "argument" I've heard from you involves toughness, and if you do a little research and reading, you'll discover that a proper heat treat is the critical factor in that. Even an 1/8" knife can be more sturdy than a 3/8" knife if the heat treat and temper is done right.

If you really want a big monstrosity of a chopper, go get yourself an HI with a 1/2" blade. I can't really see why you'd even want such a thing, but to each his own.
Click to expand...


Well said:thumbup:
 
:thumbup:
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Afghan, I don't understand what your fetish is for a thick knife. Honestly, if you think your Cold Steel knife is thick, pop on over and get a product from Himalayan Imports. You haven't seen beefy yet. A thicker BK 7 or 9 would alter the mechanics of the knife, and reduce their useability. That's been demonstrated repeatedly in this thread by actual knifemakers and other people that know considerably more than you.

Okay, first, price. Sure, you can look at street price, but that tells you bupkiss about manufacturing price. I can tell you in point of fact that thicker stock costs a good bit more in a number of different ways. For instance, for regular 1095 at Aldo's, you're looking at a $6 difference per 4' length between 3/16 and 1/4. When you add that up to enough steel to make a production run of knives, that's serious money for the manufacturer. You are only thinking about it from your perspective. You need to look at it from the perspective of a manufacturer.

But that's not the only cost for thicker steel. Because you have that additional 1/16", it's going to take longer to grind each knife. That's additional time that you're either running machines or paying workers or both, more steel wasted, and more value added in labor. Shipping costs increase for more weight, especially if you're shipping by palette to dealers.

Outside of cost, you also aren't thinking about blade dynamics and ergonomics. Part of what makes the 9 such a good knife is the way it performs for such a light weight. It competes with much heavier and thicker blades, especially with a convexed edge, and yet is thin enough to still perform slicing tasks, and light enough to reduce fatigue, and the point of percussion is perfect to grant it good power, but still nimbleness. If you change the stock weight, you're going to be putting comparatively more weight in the blade than the tang of the handle, which will move the point of balance and percussion by inches. That will make it a whole different knife, and one that sacrifices a whole lot of it's advantages and selling points for, well, what exactly? That's something you have yet to explain. You've been given a bunch of arguments as to why the thinner stock is better by some very experienced and knowledgeable folks, but you persist in saying nothing more than "thicker is better, I like my Cold Steel knife."

In fact, the only "argument" I've heard from you involves toughness, and if you do a little research and reading, you'll discover that a proper heat treat is the critical factor in that. Even an 1/8" knife can be more sturdy than a 3/8" knife if the heat treat and temper is done right.

If you really want a big monstrosity of a chopper, go get yourself an HI with a 1/2" blade. I can't really see why you'd even want such a thing, but to each his own.
Click to expand...

Good points and thank you for the reply. I do have 14 Kukuri's. Most from the Khukuri House (KH) in Nepal, which is the British Army's supplier since 1993. They are excellent farm tools and mean fighting knives. HI makes very nice swords and I have a few. I do trust thicker knives more, but that is just my experience. I do not like the Cold Steel design and made in China fact, so it's not my taste. I have found a few TOPS 1095 steel 1/4" knives that look neat lately. I have not seen a TOPS one yet.

The Becker BK2 is my favorite at 1/4":D
 
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DerekH said:
Scouter, you might want to try to track down a Camillus era BK2 then, they were thinner than the current Kabar models. I have some comparison pics up in this thread here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...BK2-vs-Camillus-BK2-(Serrated)-Picture-Thread
Click to expand...

I was literally stuck on Striders during the Camillus era. Strange as it may seem now, I once believed that thicker knives ruled all at that time too. Then I started using knives... -as knives-

I wouldn't pay more simply because the Camillus Campanion is no longer in production. They are nice looking knives, but I'm fairly certain I could get an exact replica of 18 stock made for substantially less than the Camillus' go for. At that point I could add other features that I prefer to fine tune it ;) Then again, I have just that in a Fairly Bushcraft chisel grind :cool:
 
scouter27 said:
What experience do you have with knives thinner than 1/4" failing? What knives? That's not a loaded question, I really want to know.
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Fair question. I have broken and bent a USMC kabar knive myself and I have seen numerous USGI bayonets broken also over my 28-year career. I have seen a Glock 81 Knife break. I have seen a CRKT knive rust in Afghanistan (cheap China coating). I see on you-tube many breaking the Ontario RTAK (5160 steel) as its too thin for it's size (I think). Ontario has been in business for way over 100-years, so I think they have heat treatment down. Any tool can break.

I think the BK2:thumbup: is a perfect 5" blade knife at 1/4."
 
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Hey Warrior....

Thanks for the kind words about the BK-2.......The Nine in either of it's thicknesses is a great combo tool.....It is light enough to whittle with and has just enough ass to make short work out of the stuff we are most likely to harvest for bushie stuff.....About wrist size is really the upper limit we need for shelter, tool mfg, traps and etc......If i am going to harvest firewood any larger than that I am gonna burn it to length or use an axe or a Stihl saw.....I am lazy and old soo it will probably be the Stihl..... Anybody for det cord..Mors Kochanski mentioned the wrist size thing in Bushcraft and it made a lot of sense to me.....I will go over that limit with Poplar, Aspen, Willow, and green Maple because it is so soft.....Hard woods it is time for a saw or axe......The Ka-bar made Nine absolutely excells at machete like work as well.......I would like to try a Nine in 1/4 inch probably ground to within about 1/4 or3/8 from the top......The primary grind would probable have to be a bit thicker so the edge would hold up to the increased power transfer at the edge (there is a word I am not pulling out of memory here)which would take a lot of the slice out and make it more of a dedicated chopper........And heavier.......I probably like the Nine best at .210.......But I am very happy with it at .188...Every knife IS a compromise....Some work and some do not........

Hope this helps....
 
BTW my favorite Cold Steel knife is the Cammillus made Master Hunter which is made from maybe 3/8 stock with about all the stock removed.....I was surpised by the thickness of the tang.......Great knife.....

Ethan
 
Ethan Becker said:
Hey Warrior....

Thanks for the kind words about the BK-2..........
Click to expand...

No thanks needed as the BK2 is really a great knife.:thumbup: I am retiring (but keeping) my made in Portland Gerber LMF II ASEK Coyote Brown 4.85" knife, that I use to teach "Outdoor School." I do this in May (once a year to 6th graders for one week). I plan on using the BK2 in that role. The kids also use other knives and axes under adult eyes for set camp fire tasks. I expect them all to use all 4-5 tools and feel good about them. The Gerber is an excellent knife, but in these outdoor school tasks the BK2 will be even better.
 
Oh, .357.....

Thanks for THAT visual first thing in the morning....Thanks a lot.....lol....

ethan
 
AfghanWarrior said:
Fair question. I have broken and bent a USMC kabar knive myself
Click to expand...

I have honestly never seen one break other than the tang. How did you break it?


AfghanWarrior said:
and I have seen numerous USGI bayonets broken also over my 28-year career.
Click to expand...

Bayonets are not knives, and should not be mistaken for knives. I wouldn't expect many knives to survive what bayonets go through. I too have seen many broken. More M9s than M7s, and then it's usually the chintzy handle deal they have going that fails.

AfghanWarrior said:
I have seen a CRKT knive rust in Afghanistan (cheap China coating).
Click to expand...

A thicker knife won't help you there...

AfghanWarrior said:
I see on you-tube many breaking the Ontario RTAK (5160 steel) as its too thin for it's size (I think). Ontario has been in business for way over 100-years, so I think they have heat treatment down.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but most knife users (and I use the term loosly) don't know what they are doing. The RTAK, IIRC, was 3/16 thick. That's plenty of steel for a any reasonable length of blade if you're using it as a knife. I have an 18" Ontario machete that is thinner than 1/8" and I have yet to snap the blade, in spite of trying several times. But then it's heat treated softer, so it'll flex more than a harder knife blade, because it's meant to. It's a chopping tool. Designed from it's very conception to chop plant matter, usually in a fairly inhospitable environment, not conductive to careful swinging to get the job done. That means odd stresses on the blade.

AfghanWarrior said:
Any tool can break.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of that, but a tool made and used properly shouldn't give you any problems. The BK9 will fall in the category of "made properly" as is. The rest if up to you ;)
 
.357 said:
My grandma used to say "Wish in one hand, shit in the other, squish them together, and see what you get."
Click to expand...

Don't leave us in suspense, what did you get?!


eww-face.jpg
 
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