I'd like to make a sword.

Rick Marchand said:
Personally, I would come at this from a different direction. A real sword is a killing tool, plain and simple... meant to take the life of another human being in the quickest, most efficient way possible. Study up on swords from a user's perspective rather than a knifemaker's. How they were used, and what was expected of them in the field. Most knifemakers view the sword as just a big knife. Not so. Sure, you can make a big knife, machete or SSO (sword shaped object) that will cut tatami mats and hanging meat... but they will be very different from the swords that evolved from battle. I'm not telling you to seek training as a swordsman... read up, visit museums.... look at as many authentic swords (and accurate, period reproductions) as you can and study their build.

Rick
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Damn you and your logic. I guess I'll be heading up to some museums this weekend.

The boss will be away first two weeks of April. I had planned to make a sword during that time. :)
 
Rick Marchand said:
Personally, I would come at this from a different direction. A real sword is a killing tool, plain and simple... meant to take the life of another human being in the quickest, most efficient way possible. Study up on swords from a user's perspective rather than a knifemaker's. How they were used, and what was expected of them in the field. Most knifemakers view the sword as just a big knife. Not so. Sure, you can make a big knife, machete or SSO (sword shaped object) that will cut tatami mats and hanging meat... but they will be very different from the swords that evolved from battle. I'm not telling you to seek training as a swordsman... read up, visit museums.... look at as many authentic swords (and accurate, period reproductions) as you can and study their build.

Rick
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Great point Rick. I make beer, I couldn't imagine someone making it that hadn't had any! :D

That is a lot to think about...

I might want to make a styled out brush cutter!

EDIT: by this I mean I'm not a collector nor do I want to kill anyone with a sword, lol. I have a weird sense fof humor. In fact if I were to make a weapon with the intent to kill, it would be a buffer.
 
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OK, I have sat back long enough. I am trying to avoid these type of threads, and let the voices of others speak. Those who make swords know the process, but realize that there is no short and simple answer.

A sword is not a long knife. It is an entirely different animal. The main ingredients are balance and blade geometry. Next comes flexibility. I would guess that well over half of all first swords are made from the wrong steel and have the wrong geometry. If it is a wall hanger or a Klingon slayer, I guess you can make whatever you think is a sword. But, if it is intended to have an edge and cut anything, it needs to be a properly made sword.

There is no way someone cam say on a forum to an inexperienced smith, " Just do X,Y,Z, and you will get a great sword." The subject needs to be well understood before you start, and you have to already have some skills developed.

Sam may have been quoting a statement I have made several times when this topic comes up. "Everyone should make 100 knives...... and then make one sword. It will tell you a lot about your abilities. It will also tell many that they will never make another sword."

A real sword is light in the hand ,usually thin in cross section, and flexes where it should ( and doesn't where it shouldn't). A properly made four pound sword will be much lighter in the hand than a poorly made two pound sword. Edges are designed to cut without chipping, and the blade is designed to flex before bending, but will bend before breaking.
This is a product of the blade geometry and HT. Final hardness on a sword is usually much lower than a knife. Rc52-54 is common. Steel choice is important for avoiding breakage. Holding an edge is usually of lesser importance, as the edge can be touched up easier than replacing a broken or badly chipped sword. Discuss the HT results desired well with the heat treater before having the HT done.

Final note:
A sword is a weapon. It has exactly two purposes
1) Killing and maiming people
2) Collecting

Taking a sword out to the bush and whacking trees is just plain dumb. At the least, it may damage a good sword. At the worst it may damage a person. A machete or smachet is the weapon to attack ninja trees with.
 
Wally Hayes is my "brutha from anutha mutha" and makes fantastic swords. Someone else who comes to mind is Kevin Cashen. Though, he is a neophite's soul crusher(joking), I hope he chimes in, so I can once again realise, how little I know about my chosen profession.:p


Rick
 
bladsmth said:
A machete or smachet is the weapon to attack ninja trees with.
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I've been seriously considering making a CPM-3V smatchet. :) My office manager thinks it's a dumb idea, but she just doesn't get the "cool factor" involved. :rolleyes:

In all seriousness, I do appreciate you chiming in. I don't claim any real knowledge about swords of any kind, so my thoughts on A2 or 3V being a good choice may be way off the mark, I don't really know.
 
CPM3V should make an excellent sword. A2 is commonly used,too . 3V is super tough at Rc55-56.
 
I want to make one just to make one. I have 2 bushcraft style; 4 Steak; 2 chef; 3 small folders; 1 "large" folder, and and now a sword in progress. :)

I think I have ADD. :P

In all honesty, the steel making is the easy part for me. The handles are what takes most of my time.
 
bladsmth said:
OK, I have sat back long enough. I am trying to avoid these type of threads, and let the voices of others speak. Those who make swords know the process, but realize that there is no short and simple answer.

Stacy, I appreciate your help! I may joke around a lot I do not take this subject lightly. I understand there is no simple answer, that was not what I meant to convey. I just have to start somewhere, I might not even make one after I have been completely informed. Thanks and once again I always appreciate it.

A sword is not a long knife. It is an entirely different animal. The main ingredients are balance and blade geometry. Next comes flexibility. I would guess that well over half of all first swords are made from the wrong steel and have the wrong geometry. If it is a wall hanger or a Klingon slayer, I guess you can make whatever you think is a sword. But, if it is intended to have an edge and cut anything, it needs to be a properly made sword.

It isn't my intention to make some big fantasy sword, I don't like that sort of thing at all.

.

There is no way someone cam say on a forum to an inexperienced smith, " Just do X,Y,Z, and you will get a great sword." The subject needs to be well understood before you start, and you have to already have some skills developed.

I agree 100%.

Sam may have been quoting a statement I have made several times when this topic comes up. "Everyone should make 100 knives...... and then make one sword. It will tell you a lot about your abilities. It will also tell many that they will never make another sword."

A real sword is light in the hand ,usually thin in cross section, and flexes where it should ( and doesn't where it shouldn't). A properly made four pound sword will be much lighter in the hand than a poorly made two pound sword. Edges are designed to cut without chipping, and the blade is designed to flex before bending, but will bend before breaking.
This is a product of the blade geometry and HT. Final hardness on a sword is usually much lower than a knife. Rc52-54 is common. Steel choice is important for avoiding breakage. Holding an edge is usually of lesser importance, as the edge can be touched up easier than replacing a broken or badly chipped sword. Discuss the HT results desired well with the heat treater before having the HT done.

You bring up a ton of great points, much planning is needed. Talking to the heat treat people is an excellent idea!

Final note:
A sword is a weapon. It has exactly two purposes
1) Killing and maiming people
2) Collecting

Taking a sword out to the bush and whacking trees is just plain dumb. At the least, it may damage a good sword. At the worst it may damage a person. A machete or smachet is the weapon to attack ninja trees with.

If I whacked a tree with a sword, it would be meant for that purpose. There is no way I'm going to go chop brush with a nice sword. It would also be an easy way to get hurt. I shouldn't joke around so much, I try to put a lot of thought into my craft and can see why you would think otherwise.
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Thanks again Stacy for taking the time to help out.
 
bladsmth said:
CPM3V should make an excellent sword. A2 is commonly used,too . 3V is super tough at Rc55-56.
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That's what I was thinking; I've used a little 3V at Rc59 for knives and I love it. I've been researching A2 as well, specifically looking for toughness.

I'm going to the Badger Knife Show this weekend and Kevin Cashen is on the list of table-holders. I'm really looking forward to it :thumbup:
 
Thanks everyone!

Lycosa, I checked out his stuff, wow, the video of him chopping the 2x4 was something else.


I wanted to use 5160 because I am familiar with it, it is a good sword steel, and it is inexpensive but the 3V really sounds great.

What do ya'll think about something along the lines of a Busse AK-47? Not a copy, just something "basic" like that with G10 scales and as simple of a gaurd as it gets?
 
james terrio said:
I'm going to the Badger Knife Show this weekend and Kevin Cashen is on the list...
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Your opening line should be...

"Is it true that the reason why Japanese swords are superior to modern swords is because the authentic ones were quenched in human bodies ?"
 
My 100 knives comment means, by the time you've made 100 knives and if you seek to improve with each one, you will have a high enough understanding of steels, heat treatment, grinding, geometry that you will be ready to make a very fair educated attempt at a sword.

I am taking the hard road, focusing mainly on swords and devoting the majority of my blademaking to them, without a large (finished) volume of knives under my belt. thanks to many talented friends my understanding has began to evolve to the point where I know what I need to do, I just have to get good at doing it. You hit a point, everything just clicks, but getting there only comes from practice.

My best advice is, make 100 knives, forged and ground or ground, HT'd, handled up nice, polished up nice and even and tested, chop a 2 by 4 and cut a empty cigarette paper and you know you hit it right.
 
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Sam Salvati said:
My 100 knives comment means, by the time you've made 100 knives and if you seek to improve with each one, you will have a high enough understanding of steels, heat treatment, grinding, geometry that you will be ready to make a very fair educated attempt at a sword.

I am taking the hard road, focusing mainly on swords and devoting the majority of my blademaking to them, without a large (finished) volume of knives under my belt. thanks to many talented friends my understanding has began to evolve to the point where I know what I need to do, I just have to get good at doing it.

My best advice is, make 100 knives, forged and ground or ground, HT'd, handled up nice, polished up nice and even and tested, chop a 2 by 4 and cut a empty cigarette paper and you know you hit it right.
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Thank You Sam, that was what I got out of it too. I'm going to keep on it!

I have to mention that I joined here in 2007 with the intention of making knives, lol, I finally finished one this year. So the first one took 4 years of planning, I wonder how long this will take? :D
 
Daniel- William Nease makes fantastic user blades. There are other makers who do the same so take take your time and keep researching.
 
zaph1 said:
SAM! Are you making forging hammers for sale yet? I have a stump for my anvil now.
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CHUCK! not yet I'm working out some logistics though....... I'm doing a hammer making class in Guilford CT April 9-10 I might have one or two left over from the class but there's a long list of people who have dibs on them but you are on the list too :D and you keep moving forward on the list with that jerky you keep sending :D


OH yeh! Rick's brutha-frum-anutha-mutha Wally Hayes has a video out on making his Tactical Katana, it is bada$$ in many ways including Wally shredding out the soundtrack. If you really want a video that will lay it all out for you, and jump you ahead about 2 years get it. I made this blade based on the video with some tweaks.

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My opinion on the purpose of the sword in modern culture is, I don't believe swords serve only 2 purposes of killing or collecting, that's an oversimplification. There is the martial arts aspect, which in a way goes hand in hand with the sword in it's semi obsolescence in the modern world. Then there is the recreation aspect of cutting for pleasure, a great way to get out and exercise.

But at the root of the sword, yes, it's proficiency for death and destruction, which should always be kept in your mind.
 
Nice Blade Sammy!

Wally's videos are very cool. Did you know that Brent Beshara (Besh Knives) is playing drums?
 
Sam Salvati said:
My opinion on the purpose of the sword in modern culture is, I don't believe swords serve only 2 purposes of killing or collecting, that's an oversimplification. There is the martial arts aspect, which in a way goes hand in hand with the sword in it's semi obsolescence in the modern world. Then there is the recreation aspect of cutting for pleasure, a great way to get out and exercise.

But at the root of the sword, yes, it's proficiency for death and destruction, which should always be kept in your mind.
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:thumbup::thumbup:

Sam, that sword is killer! :cool:
 
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