I'd like to make a sword.

Rick Marchand said:
Nice Blade Sammy!

Wally's videos are very cool. Did you know that Brent Beshara (Besh Knives) is playing drums?
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I think I might rent or buy it online tonight, it looks great. Besides that I really need to chill, I was savagely attacked by a buffer today.

Rick you play drums too right... same here.
 
I should qualify about A2. It can make a great sword, but if I were going to make a sword out of it, I would want to do the heat treat myself, not send it out.

10xx or 5160 would do fine, and they are easier to heat treat yourself. I did some 1095 in the chiminea out in my backyard, and it turned out fine.

With all the alloy in it, I didn't want to do A2 that way, so I sent it out. It came back hard; the heat treat guy told me not to throw it, which tells me it is too hard to be a sword. The alternatives were a soft-back draw (which is easier to do on a knife than a sword) or sticking it in the oven for a couple hours.

I like A2, but if I were to make a sword of it, I would want to have my own heat-treat furnace, etc., to do my own heat treat and get it right. It is easier to do with easier tools with a water- or oil-hardening steel.
 
Wally's Katana Tak video is cool because he uses simple tools and it is total stock removal. A great introductory to sword making with immediate gratification.... but it really is only the tip of the iceburg.

This was the day Wally and I met...

rick.jpg
 
Nice photo Rick, that is a really nice drum set you have there! I love that snare especially.
 
seth,
That is exactly why I said you must talk with the HT person before the HT. They will just do the A2 for hardness if you don't discuss the desired parameters. As your results showed, a knife's HT is not a sword's HT.
 
I'd like to add a question akin to Rick's perspective. What will you do with the sword, and what type?
Swords are for killing, I get that part, but how often will you get to use it that way?
Some are for martial arts, but what will your's be used for?
I had to ask myself this question. I ended up with a Swamp Rat Waki because I wanted to cut some $hit.
This might sound oversimplified, but, I'm not ready for a real, full length katana. I could spend thousands on a sword, and never use it, so until I win the lotto, no thanks.
I practice with a bokken, on my own, and use control. Same with the Waki, I always stay focused, and have only cut soft targets. Swamp Rat made a video of one chopping a tree, across the grain. So, they guarantee that it's a strong blade. I feel like it won't break on me, I could poke my eye out, or worse, but that would be my own fault.
So again, what is your purpose? I'd make the sword around that. That answer could design your sword, and it's steel.
 
foxx said:
I'd like to add a question akin to Rick's perspective. What will you do with the sword, and what type?
Swords are for killing, I get that part, but how often will you get to use it that way?
Some are for martial arts, but what will your's be used for?
I had to ask myself this question. I ended up with a Swamp Rat Waki because I wanted to cut some $hit.
This might sound oversimplified, but, I'm not ready for a real, full length katana. I could spend thousands on a sword, and never use it, so until I win the lotto, no thanks.
I practice with a bokken, on my own, and use control. Same with the Waki, I always stay focused, and have only cut soft targets. Swamp Rat made a video of one chopping a tree, across the grain. So, they guarantee that it's a strong blade. I feel like it won't break on me, I could poke my eye out, or worse, but that would be my own fault.
So again, what is your purpose? I'd make the sword around that. That answer could design your sword, and it's steel.
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That is actually the basic design I want to go for, something along the lines of the Swamp Rat Waki or the AK-47.

Honestly my purpose is to make quality gear that sells. I want one for myself also but I try not to keep too much of what I make. On the other hand, I really don't like to make anything I personally wouldn't want.

And yes, it should work just as well as the swords I mentioned as far as that purpose goes. I wish I had a Swamp Rat Wakizashi to check out in person.
 
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Daniel Fairly Knives said:
That is actually the basic design I want to go for, something along the lines of the Swamp Rat Waki or the AK-47.

Honestly my purpose is to make quality gear that sells. I want one for myself also but I try not to keep too much of what I make. On the other hand, I really don't like to make anything I personally wouldn't want.

And yes, it should work just as well as the swords I mentioned as far as that purpose goes. I wish I had a Swamp Rat Wakizashi to check out in person.
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As much as I like the idea of being a badass Samuri, I just can't see devoting that much time, effort, and devotion to an ancient art. Guns would still kill me just as fast.
So, seems like a useable modern sword would need to cut "other" targets as well. I like my Waki, with one exception, it's a bit short. A two handed grip is just akward. I have a full length bokken, and a short Bokken. The short one is only 1" shorter than the Waki. Both only really feel right with a one handed grip. The full length is just right with a two handed grip, but a bit heavy and long for just one.
That said, if the Waki were longer, the strength, heat treat, thickness, and balance would need to be addressed. Maybe that's what the AK47 is, a bit longer. Is it better that way for one and two handed use, I don't know.
If a modern sword could be used both ways, be fast, strong, balanced, and a true slicer, you'd have a great product. Like said before, make the weight feel light, regardess of the weight.
I was just outside beating the hell out of a 12" 5160 blade by Bruce Culberson. Cross grain chopping of some seasoned wood, it was a chore, but the edge showed no wear, chips, rolling, or any damage.
So, depending on the intended targets, maybe do a 5160, S7, or even a 52100. Swamp Rat is using a modified 52100 for their SR101.
 
Those are nice drums, Rick. Those Zildjian K's are money. Looks like you guys are having fun. I'm a drummer, too.

Daniel, I've got some unfinished sword blades around my shop. I'll race you to finish one...
 
Rick Marchand said:
Your opening line should be...

"Is it true that the reason why Japanese swords are superior to modern swords is because the authentic ones were quenched in human bodies ?"
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Actually I was thinking about bringing him all the bacon grease I've been saving to use for quenching, and asking for his tips on edge-packing :D

Drummers, eh? I knew there was something odd about you fellas.
 
I am the slayer of myths, the claster of icons! I am the guy Emperor Palpatine fears a surprise inspection from! I am the obnoxious ladle that jams shut the kitchen drawer of your blademaking confidence! I am the pointy stick in the mud bath of hype, and the eyelash in the used car salesman’s ice cream. I am the serpent lounging in a tree in Eden and I have something you really need to try! “and now I have become death, the destroyer of worlds!”

I am not going to just be at the Badger Show this weekend, I am riding and rooming with that katana crapping jerk Rick Barrett (the guy can just squat and leave a beautful sword), so there will be a critical mass of sword stuff. Eastern and Western swords, that is like slapping together matter and antimatter, and standing back to see what happens.

Much has already been said, I have spent my entire life trying to fully understand swords, measuring and studing originals here and abroad, and I will spend what I have left doing the same. Knives are very easy straightforward things compared to swords. Knives are not iconic symbols that transcend their mere use, thus if you get one wrong you have not blasphemed in quite the same way you would have with a sword.

Swords are an enigmatic paradox of a symbol of honor and goodness, while being nothing more than a highly specialized tool for disassembling living human beings. And that is the function you must keep in mind. It is so darned hard to make a “real” sword because a “real” sword is for killing people, so there is no legitimate way to test if you got it right.

Swords are not just long knives, and anybody approaching them as such is doomed to failure. In use and function they are not even in the same league as knives, they handle different and they cut different, they are two different tools entirely. Critical points that you must abandon knife logic for are:

Impact toughness, I don’t use the word flexibility personally because it has been so misunderstood now and in the past in sword use, easily flexing blades work well for foils and epees but would get you killed with a real sword. Real swords needed to handle impact forces astronomically higher than any knife, so it is hard to accept (it was for me) but impact strength can even trump abrasion resistance and overall edge strength.

“Blunt trauma is highly underrated!” It seems odd to quote myself but let’s just say I am quoting the Ashokan t-shirt bearing that quote. What I was talking about there was how many swords that did terrifying damage weren’t really sharpened like a knife but instead concentrated blunt trauma into such a small area that it cleaved things with ease. I hate, loathe and despise the expression “the sword had a ‘razor” sharp edge”, it is perhaps one of the most retarded things I have ever heard! First the speaker obviously has never worked with a razor or a sword before. Secondly a sword with a razor edge would be about as useful as a razor with a sword edge.

Distal and appropriate profile taper are critical. You can get away with mass distribution not quite right on a 10” bowie, but if you haven’t got a really good handle on mass distribution on a 3 foot blade you are just making a SSO. This is why modern factory replicas suck so badly, they stamp a blank out of ¼” sheet, and just put edged on it and call this edged lump of dead steel a sword. Swords cross sections and longitudinal geometries are some of the most complex functional objects I have ever measured. Japanese swords are complex but elegantly simple compared to the intricate and highly involved games western double edge swordmakers played with mass distribution. And with this it must be said that a pommel is not a cure or even a counterweight for a poorly balanced blade. The blade should balance and feel good all on its own without the pommel, and the pommel just sort of compliments it, or at best fine tunes things, if it doesn’t you blew it on the blade.

I could go on for pages but I need to get ready for the show.

And Rick, I don’t crush souls… I own them! You should read the fine print before biting any apples! Moohoo, ha, Ha, HA, HAA, HAAA, HAAAA….
 
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I'm getting the distinct impression that Mr. Cashen has some rather strong opinions about swords. And that there may have been a little something extra in his Wheaties this morning :D
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
I am the obnoxious ladle that jams shut the kitchen drawer of your blademaking confidence!
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You can't say stuff like that when I'm drinking coffee... it almost came out my nose!

All kidding aside you bring up some excellent points that I will take to heart.

Thank you Kevin. :D
 
Salem Straub said:
Those are nice drums, Rick. Those Zildjian K's are money. Looks like you guys are having fun. I'm a drummer, too.

You guys would drool at my cymbals, :D I have the old Zildians from back when there was one model, Zildian! They have a small stamp only. I also have the quick beat and new beat hi-hats. I play guitar also, I got all my drum stuff by fixing up guitar pedals and selling them on consignment at the drum shop. It was back in the day in Austin, there was so much nice old gear around there it wasn't funny.


Daniel, I've got some unfinished sword blades around my shop. I'll race you to finish one...
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I think the real contest will be to see who has the least amount of swords in progress when they eventually finish a nice one! But I've seen your knives, I'd have no chance! :D Awesome work by the way!

I'm a freakshow when it comes to getting things right, I probably ground 30 blades then went back and redid them all again a couple of times before I finished one knife.

It is how I used to cut stones for production, get about 30 preforms and grind them all one grit at a time, at the end of the run I usually cycle back through and redo the first ones on that grit. Even after doing it a long time the latter ones were still better unless I redid the early ones, I can't let those that aren't as good slip
through, drives me nuts.
 
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