If the Axis is the best locking mechanism

[hardheart]

I'd guess it's the way the hand wraps around the handle, the webbing b/w thumb & index finger on the small exposed portion of the compression lock compared to the fingers in contact along the length of a liner lock. Plus I think the angle of the wrist will affect how the torque is applied-it seems to me that when I torque in a white knuckle saber grip (which is usually what it is when I'm twisting a blade in the material I'm cutting) I'm twisting my wrist towards my centerline, while lifting/drawing back on the index finger and pushing forward/out with the pinky. This would appear to place greater force on the underside of the handle, and maybe even relieve stress against the area where the compression lock release is.

 

[eyeeatingfish]

I am rather bummed when i see that. I prefer a lock back or an axis type lock much more than a liner lock or a frame lock. Not that i think they are less strong, but i just hate the idea of having the lock release in the way of where the blade goes. With the lockback or an axis style lock i can just disengage the lock and flick it shut as easily as i flicked it open or at least easily push the back of the blade on something.
I liked skirmish too but hence i had liner and frame locks so im SOL

 

[allenC]

But why, if BM has the best locking mehcanism in the axis, would they use anything less in knives over $200.

Actually, Benchmade's "best" locking mechanism is the latch-lock found on their Bali-Songs.

And by "best" I mean: strongest, most safe, most reliable, most fool-proof, easiest to clean, most wear resistant, and least affected by different grips and useage.
All other locks pale in comparison to the Bali-song latch.

Allen.

 

[biogon]

Actually, Benchmade's "best" locking mechanism is the latch-lock found on their Bali-Songs.

And by "best" I mean: strongest, most safe, most reliable, most fool-proof, easiest to clean, most wear resistant, and least affected by different grips and useage.
All other locks pale in comparison to the Bali-song latch.

Allen.

=D

It IS a good locking system, isn't it?

Too bad it doesn't work on folders (which I assume is sort of the purview of this argument)

-j

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Any hypotheses as to why?

The liner locks loads the liner across its thickness because the bend in the liner turns a compressive load into a lateral torque. However the compression lock induces a torque perpendicular to the bend of the liner. In effect it tries to torque it through its width. The relative strength of a compression vs liner is thus the width/thickness ratio which is about 10 to 1. The functional difference isn't this great however as the material can compress and shear crack at the face directly. It is also easier to release as hardheart noted because you don't need to be as concerned about white knuckle releases and can thus make the lock more accessable.

-Cliff

 

[WadeF]

Actually, Benchmade's "best" locking mechanism is the latch-lock found on their Bali-Songs.Allen.

I've owned a pair of Benchmade balis for over a decade, butI don't see why the latch lock is so highly regarded. I just locked mine, and if I squeeze on the handles it pops open. Yeah, that's some great lock there.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Wade, when the latch popped open, did the blade fold onto your fingers? -- I have a Laci Szabo butterfly knife without a latch. As long as I'm holding it, it's as safe as most fixed blades.

 

[WadeF]

Wade, when the latch popped open, did the blade fold onto your fingers? -- I have a Laci Szabo butterfly knife without a latch. As long as I'm holding it, it's as safe as most fixed blades.

So you are basically saying the latch lock is useless and not needed? Thank you.

 

[James Muehlner]

I'd say that the latch itself is not all that useful, except for keeping the knife closed in your pocket, but the actual knife will never fold on you if you keep your hand closed. In that way, the balisong lock is the strongest lock around.

I think any force strong enough to break the balisong lock would knock the knife out of your hand first.

 

[AmadeusM]

So, basically the only way for an Axis to fail (and sever some fingers) is to have both Omega springs fail one right after the other?

 

[WadeF]

I'd say that the latch itself is not all that useful, except for keeping the knife closed in your pocket, but the actual knife will never fold on you if you keep your hand closed. In that way, the balisong lock is the strongest lock around.

I think any force strong enough to break the balisong lock would knock the knife out of your hand first.

I think it's a lot of spin. The latch really has nothing to do with keeping the knife from failing, the stop pin on the tang of the blade does, and frankly it's not all that robust. I don't think many people would ever put a lot of force on a balisong, but I would expect a benchmade balisong to break and fail before an AXIS lock at the pivot point.

The latch lock is simply for locking the handles shut when closed, or to hold them together while open. It really doesn't have much to do with keeping the blade from folding closed on your hand, so it's really silly to go around saying the latch is the strongest lock.

 

[WadeF]

So, basically the only way for an Axis to fail (and sever some fingers) is to have both Omega springs fail one right after the other?

They'd have to both fail and the AXIS bar would have to be dislodged. When the lock is under tension I find it's difficult, if not impossible, to unlock. So if the springs broke while it was under tension, which seems even more unlikely, the lock bar would most likely keep the blade locked until the tension was released. At that time it may slide out of place. I would expect once both springs fail the knife wouldn't lock up and the blade would just swing around and it would pretty noticeable. Of course, a cut could happen if you flick it open, expect it to lock, and then get your fingers in the way and the blade falls back on you. I wouldn't expect a major cut from that though.

Where it gets scary is when the knife does lock up, but then the lock fails under tension, like a slip joint could. Some people have reported liner locks fail like this sometimes.

 

[biogon]

So, basically the only way for an Axis to fail (and sever some fingers) is to have both Omega springs fail one right after the other?

Hypothetically:

- pivot pin shear
- AXIS bar shear
- AXIS bar breaks through the liner
- a piece of material just the right size clogs up the space between the stop pin and the AXIS bar, allowing the bar to just barely engage the tang. On spine pressure, the AXIS bar disengages. (This results in the scenario described by Wade above.)

Failure spine-direction:
- stop pin shear
- stop pin breaks through the liners

-j

 

[Artfully Martial]

Someone was talking about the advantages of framelocks over liner locks. The major advantage, of course, is in our perception, and very little more.

This is true of most locks, outside of ease of use.

 

[biogon]

Someone was talking about the advantages of framelocks over liner locks. The major advantage, of course, is in our perception, and very little more.

This is true of most locks, outside of ease of use.

...

I don't think I could disagree more with you on the first point.

On the second point, however, there are actual errors of fact.

-j

 

[allenC]

From Biogon:

It IS a good locking system, isn't it?

Too bad it doesn't work on folders (which I assume is sort of the purview of this argument)

Benchmade Bali-Songs are folders.


From Wade:

The latch lock is simply for locking the handles shut when closed, or to hold them together while open. It really doesn't have much to do with keeping the blade from folding closed on your hand, so it's really silly to go around saying the latch is the strongest lock.

Okay, have it your way.
I'll revise my statement and say that, IMO, a Benchmade Bali-Song folder is stronger than any Axis-lock folder.

I have never seen or even heard of a Bali-Song failing.

Allen.

 

[Artfully Martial]

Well, all I'm getting at is that a well designed and well executed lock should always exceed my realistic expectations...be it liner lock, lockback or axis.

A poorly executed one will almost undoubtedly fail. If we saw axis locks utilized on CCCs before we saw them on benchmades, who knows what we'd thnk...

Oh, and on a side note, yeah, balisong is the best way to go about it. It's the closest thing you're going to get to an FB, realistically.

 

[biogon]

From Biogon:


Benchmade Bali-Songs are folders.

Mmm.... folding "pen knife"; does that help?

I only make this distinction because in many states, I can legally carry a "folder" "concealed", but I can't legally carry a balisong concealed.

-j

 

[dakota]

My Axis knives are my favorite, but give me a frame lock any day for really messy jobs. Ever try to clean fish scales and guts out of an Axis?
It's much easier on an open backed Ti frame locker.

 

[AmadeusM]

Dammit, it sucks when you can't legally carry the safest, strongest folder of all, the Balisong. Are there ANY states where you can carry them concealed, legally?