If they're going to retire 15V, Maxamet, and Rex 121, what are they going to replace them with?

[DeadboxHero]

Diamond/cBN works best for 15V, Maxamet and Rex121.

Not all diamond/cBN is the same.

 

[P2P]

Just got to playing with my PM2 in 15V. It's an interesting steel. Now, mind you, I was breaking down a cardboard box that I got an Ebike shipped in, so really double thick, heavy filthy stuff. Not at all easy on any knife.

But I will say, the 15V edge was thrashed, it was folded over all over the belly, and I ended up using mostly the tip of the knife and score the box down rather than make exceedingly hard push cuts. I should have taken some photos, but I figured its not really a big deal. What was nice - the 15V was REALLY easy to sharpen and bring back up to a fine edge.

I run the older version of the Ken Onion worksharp grinder attachment to sharpen knives. A few passes on the coarse belt removed the folds, and using a few passes on the heavy, medium, and fine belts brought it back to sharp with no indication there was ever damage. It really reminded me of sharpening a budget knife, like something in 14c28n, or even an 8cr13Mov. Not sure if that is a good thing or not, but thought I would share my experience.

Attached photo is from well before the cutting, obviously.

After reading this, I do recall the factory edge not being ideal. A kittle chippy. Once I sharpened some new steel to the surface, it was a different animal.

 

[jeffsenpai]

After reading this, I do recall the factory edge not being ideal. A kittle chippy. Once I sharpened some new steel to the surface, it was a different animal.

I found some more cardboard from the ebike box, I am going to test a bit more and see how my new edge handles it. I will take photos/video this time.

 

[Battle Creek Knives]

personally Im not a big super steel fan, give me good ole 1095 with proper HT for bushcraft any day, field sharpening 101, check... for that matter, simple carbon steel is what I prefer in a fixed blade, folders stainless of course, s30v is fine for me and thats hard enough to sharpen I can only imagine what MagnaCut and the others are like to sharpen...

 

[MolokaiRider]

Not much value for me to add other than this was a good thread to read.

My takeaway is sometimes some of these more niche alloys have a higher chance of disappearing than other less expensive or more readily available ones.

 

[DavidABQ]

I'm surprised to read this...but happy if that's the case.

Has anyone else had the same result with ceramic and 15V?

I understand where you are coming from but on the Spyderco Forum I started a thread about ceramic being too soft for 15v and most people said that you need to use diamond plates. Sal made the argument that he touched up his knives with 15v of his Sharpmaker. That caused me to give it a try and so far it seems to be working.

Maybe not all ceramics are the same? Don’t know, I just tried it for myself to see how it worked.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I understand where you are coming from but on the Spyderco Forum I started a thread about ceramic being too soft for 15v and most people said that you need to use diamond plates. Sal made the argument that he touched up his knives with 15v of his Sharpmaker. That caused me to give it a try and so far it seems to be working.

Maybe not all ceramics are the same? Don’t know, I just tried it for myself to see how it worked.

If the only metric is if it can cut something afterwards then yeah I guess anything works but if you want the highest amount of performance diamond/cBN will work best.

You'll get more front end sharpness edge retention because you can shape the apex to a cleaner, finer radius, which requires submicron sizes, It's not a mystery that the hardness of the individual features inside of the steel and the hardness of the abrasives is a factor.

it's not 100% carbide volume in 15V. It's 23% which means the other 77% is softer than the ceramic. It becomes problematic when you start moving down to the micron scale and below shaping the apex to something uniform and high quality for lasting sharpness.

The working edge retention is well into the +microns, so I'm sure one can pulverize the edge into something with adhesive wear, burnishing and crushing but it won't be able to achieve that fine radius like with diamond/cBN.

If you like to cut things with the lightest touch possible, then you'll notice using softer abrasives It'll lose that ability and bite faster.

If whatever you're doing is something you like then keep doing it. Who am I to tell people what to do.

However, if you do it and you think that there's something wrong with the steel, edge retention, sharpenability, and sharpness then please switch your abrasives before making conclusions.

10 years ago this information wasn't as prevalent which led to a lot of people feeling like these materials were utterly incapable of extreme sharpness. Bad information.


In the image below you could see the difference the hardness of the abrasive made on the quality of the edge on the 15V.

The SiC edge was all chewed up from adhesive wear pulverizing the edge into shape. It's a low quality edge in comparison to the cBN one.

Lower Edge stability, lower front-end sharpness.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Not much value for me to add other than this was a good thread to read.

My takeaway is sometimes some of these more niche alloys have a higher chance of disappearing than other less expensive or more readily available ones.

Welcome back!!! We missed you!

 

[jmh33]

Not much value for me to add other than this was a good thread to read.

My takeaway is sometimes some of these more niche alloys have a higher chance of disappearing than other less expensive or more readily available ones.

Great to see you posting again!!
John

 

[jbmonkey]

If the only metric is if it can cut something afterwards then yeah I guess anything works but if you want the highest amount of performance diamond/cBN will work best.

You'll get more front end sharpness edge retention because you can shape the apex to a cleaner, finer radius, which requires submicron sizes, It's not a mystery that the hardness of the individual features inside of the steel and the hardness of the abrasives is a factor.

it's not 100% carbide volume in 15V. It's 23% which means the other 77% is softer than the ceramic. It becomes problematic when you start moving down to the micron scale and below shaping the apex to something uniform and high quality for lasting sharpness.

The working edge retention is well into the +microns, so I'm sure one can pulverize the edge into something with adhesive wear, burnishing and crushing but it won't be able to achieve that fine radius like with diamond/cBN.

If you like to cut things with the lightest touch possible, then you'll notice using softer abrasives It'll lose that ability and bite faster.

If whatever you're doing is something you like then keep doing it. Who am I to tell people what to do.

However, if you do it and you think that there's something wrong with the steel, edge retention, sharpenability, and sharpness then please switch your abrasives before making conclusions.

10 years ago this information wasn't as prevalent which led to a lot of people feeling like these materials were utterly incapable of extreme sharpness. Bad information.


In the image below you could see the difference the hardness of the abrasive made on the quality of the edge on the 15V.

The SiC edge was all chewed up from adhesive wear pulverizing the edge into shape. It's a low quality edge in comparison to the cBN one.

Lower Edge stability, lower front-end sharpness.

View attachment 3198178

thank you....great post that helped me understand what is going on better.

Welcome back!!! We missed you!

Great to see you posting again!!
John

^yep, what these fellas said....

 

[DavidABQ]

DeadboxHero, thank you for the explanation. I do and have used Diamond DMT plates with good success but it tend to leave a toothy edge even with 1200 grit plate. I have read on this board that you need to use a very light touch and I suspect that may be one of my many issues. Again, thank you for the explanation.

 

[Blues]

DeadboxHero, thank you for the explanation. I do and have used Diamond DMT plates with good success but it tend to leave a toothy edge even with 1200 grit plate. I have read on this board that you need to use a very light touch and I suspect that may be one of my many issues. Again, thank you for the explanation.

Maybe consider adding some bonded diamond hones to your arsenal. More forgiving and leave a cleaner edge by and large.

 

[Dagoth_Blur]

DeadboxHero, thank you for the explanation. I do and have used Diamond DMT plates with good success but it tend to leave a toothy edge even with 1200 grit plate. I have read on this board that you need to use a very light touch and I suspect that may be one of my many issues. Again, thank you for the explanation.

A light touch certainly helps, however going from the 1200 to a good strop loaded with compound really helps as well.

Are you stropping with anything after the plate?

 

[MolokaiRider]

Welcome back!!! We missed you!

Great to see you posting again!!
John

Thanks men! Life been lifing….

Finally have a bit of breathing room to get back into my hobbies and this fine forum!

 

[DavidABQ]

I do strop afterwards but I strongly suspect that the typical black or green stropping compound is doing too much.

I sometimes think I should stick to steels like S30v, S35v and VG-10. It makes life easier.

 

[donnord]

I'm surprised to read this...but happy if that's the case.

Has anyone else had the same result with ceramic and 15V?

Maybe the ceramic is just straightening the edge, similar to round steel for kitchen knives.

 

[Blues]

Maybe the ceramic is just straightening the edge, similar to round steel for kitchen knives.

Could be. Or removing burrs. I dunno.