If you want to get pissed off

[MrCoffee]

Blaming drugs for crime is just as stupid as blaming guns or knives for crime, and of the same mindset. People commit crimes, it is hippie-dippy PC BS to go casting about to shift the responsibility off the individual.

So whats the solution? Make the drugs freely available? Or uphold the law? Either way, i don't disagree with this statement at all.

 

[Mrs.Shotgunner11]

I have no issues at all with what Grump and MrsShotty said, I tend to agree, but not in as heavy handed way as my father did.

heavy handed........that would mean i used my hand. i prefer the 2x4.......lol j/k. i don't BEAT them. i will smack their butts for doing something wrong gasp: even in public!). talking back will get your lip flicked! i just don't take crap.....can you imagine that?

 

[crowdog]

heavy handed........that would mean i used my hand. i prefer the 2x4.......lol j/k. i don't BEAT them. i will smack their butts for doing something wrong gasp: even in public!). talking back will get your lip flicked! i just don't take crap.....can you imagine that?

spare the rod, spoil the child.
i think that is how it goes....
rules need to be inforced.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

So whats the solution? Make the drugs freely available? Or uphold the law? Either way, i don't disagree with this statement at all.

Drugs are freely available. Always will be. Using drugs of any kind should not be a crime, the government has no place dictating what you do to yourself. Eating too many donuts is worse for your health than smoking weed, should donuts be banned? I say people can and will make their own choices. If the government has the right to control your consumption based on what they decide is in your best interest, then next they will enact thought crime laws to protect you from unhealthy ideas. . . After all, it's for the children.

When a person steals, the court should punish the crime, not say "he has an addiction, he can't help himself" then send him to rehab. Do the crime, do hard time. Maybe they should have a hand cut off like they do to thieves in some places.

 

[Don Rearic]

Well... ok. I agree that alcohol is as much a drug as any of the others. Which is why I drink responsibily. One beer, after that no driving. Period. No exceptions.

It is a drug and I am glad you use that drug responsibly. On the Fourth of July, I had a single Pabst with about five fine blue crabs and a couple ears of corn. I didn't drink anything else with alcohol in it for about four or five hours then we left. Even that made me uneasy, to be honest with you. It's not that I felt I was impaired, it's because the law might say something different about that.

That is the first time, this last 4th, that I have done this in about 13 years. You just have too much to lose for having any alcohol on your breath.

If I am the lone parent at home with the kids, no alcohol. Period, no execptions.

Generally when my son and I are home without the wife, sooner or later, we are going to go pick her up. So, no drinking then either.

I'm just not a big drinker anymore in any case.

Legalizing alcohol has done nothing to prevent its abuse.

Was it suppose to?

Did Prohibition curtail abuse or just make criminals out of people like you and I who are responsible? I assure you, everyone that wanted to get intoxicated during Prohibition did so, it did nothing to curtail abuse. I would not expect legalization of alcohol or anything else to diminish or prevent the abuse of same.

Not one single thing. I happen to really like Beer. A lot. But abusing it isnt my style.

My Dad drank beer every day until he had to get chemotherapy. Possibly a functioning alcoholic, don't know and don't care. All I know is I am not. I can pick it up or put it down, doesn't matter. I have abused alcohol when I was younger, however, and that is a different thing entirely.

Again, don't like the laws about alcohol? Then start changing them.

There is no changing these laws, it is politically incorrect to do so in any event. I remember speaking about this elsewhere on Bladeforums just a few years ago and a copper came on to say that what I really was, was a closet drunk driver that wanted to be free to drink and drive and kill people. I won't get involved in asshole debates. (Character assassination.)

When MADD lobbied the State of Maryland a few years ago, to once again lower the blood alcohol level, the Maryland State Toxicologist said that he could not testify in the affirmative that every person would be impaired at that level. They applied political pressure to the Toxicologist, threatening his job, he changed his opinion and testimony accordingly. This is corruption, or as our Randite friends would refer to it, "The Politics of Pull" as I have come to understand the concept.

But just because you don't agree with the DUI laws, doesn't mean that you are exempt from them.

Strawman, I never wanted to be exempt from them, per se. I want them to be fair and scientific because we are dealing with impairment by chemicals and not everyone is going to be impaired at that level therefore, the law is bullshit in my opinion and if we want to stop drunk driving deaths, we need to BAN drinking and driving.

In other words, I don't drink and drive and I am not arguing to be able to, what I want is something called "justice" instead of junk science and bullshit emotionalism parading as fact.

And I am not exactly sure what MADD has to do with gun rights and ownership, but my view on that is that the 2nd amendment is clearly spelled out, and the biggest issue with it is that not enough folks have the guts to stand up for that right.

Go back and read what I wrote. The same emotionally driven people that want to ban guns because they lost a loved one to "gun violence" (B.S. term that is popular, it's human violence.) are the same type of people that want to ban alcohol or lobby State Governments for more corrupt laws that lower blood alcohol levels to the point that people are NOT impaired.

Every couple of years, MADD lobbies for the lowering of the BAL, what do you think their goal is?

MADD is preying on the heartbreak of people who have suffered tragic losses in the same way that Sarah Brady (HCI-VPC) does, period. MADD's crusade is that of the Prohibitionist.

And I disagree with the "gateway" drug theory as well. I know I never would have tried coke if I hadn't tried pot. And I wouldn't have staggered around a school dance on Acid if I hadn't already tried Coke. Etc. The list goes on, until I couldn't remeber the last time I hadn't smoked a joint on the way to school, and I quit all of it. Of course I took up smoking cigarettes and drinking afterwards.

Well, apparently you have an addictive personality dude! Were you able to put them all down or what?

The Gateway Drug statement is a fact in my own experience. That is NOT to say that there are not kids or even adults out there that did not have pot as their gateway drug!

However, to claim that pot is THE gateway drug is utter rubbish.

Now, I ask you directly, did you have alcohol before you had any other drug?

I understand your progression from pot to coke to acid - the only thing I am saying is that for the vast majority of people, alcohol is the gateway drug and it's not pot! Now, you will also get people who tried coke first or acid or mommy's valium in the bathroom medicine cabinet, that doesn't make them THE gateway drug. In my experience, watching other kids growing up, some of them not making it into their 20s because they thought it was a great idea to try to rip off a crack dealer down in Washington, D.C., Daddy's beer and hard liquor was the "gateway drug."

NOW...here is something interesting to ponder. If pot and hash were legalized, would they then become THE gateway drug to harder drugs? Maybe so. I don't know. But I know that if you want to take the VIOLENCE out of the drug trade, as was done with alcohol, we must repeal Prohibition on the softer drugs and seriously do something about the harder drugs.

If you are pro Second Amendment as I am, you also have to come to the realization sooner or later that alcohol Prohibition is the reason automatic weapons, suppressors and short barreled shotguns are such pricey items. And that was a scam as well because the likes of Bonnie and Clyde never went out and purchased their weapons, they stole them from National Guard Armories like the one that existed in Enid, Oklahoma at the time.

Our new gun control laws have been driven by The New Prohibition. If you take the profit out of the drugs, you take a large amount of the violence out of the street and this would then cause an easing effect on the constant yammering for gun control. Let's face it, the drug trade is what has, more than anything else, driven the cries for gun control.

 

[R.A.T.]

The problem I have seen from Libertarian thinking (with a large L), is almost every Lib I know that thinks government has no role in our lives, period, will freely take a government hand out. For example, when the government was passing out the digital TV boxes before the change over to all digital TV, a couple of Libertarians I know got their "free" TV box. They also cashed the "stimulus" check,... I could go on and on.

My point being, before we jump the gun and start yelling that we want true freedom, do we really want freedom? If most people knew what real freedom was all about, they will gladly accept their socialized life with big brother first.

 

[rmc85]

heavy handed........that would mean i used my hand. i prefer the 2x4.......lol j/k. i don't BEAT them. i will smack their butts for doing something wrong gasp: even in public!). talking back will get your lip flicked! i just don't take crap.....can you imagine that?

My GF is always amazed at how well the (small) kids act in my town when we go out to dinner. Last time when we here out and she said something and I told her "Honey, Archer is a town of 1,200 and if a kid acts up they get smacked by the parents. Makes you wish everyone would spanked their kids right?".

Over in the neighboring city of 120,000 if you go out to dinner there's always going to be a table with kids flinging food, screaming, and running around.

 

[Don Rearic]

The problem I have seen from Libertarian thinking (with a large L), is almost every Lib I know that thinks government has no role in our lives, period, will freely take a government hand out. For example, when the government was passing out the digital TV boxes before the change over to all digital TV, a couple of Libertarians I know got their "free" TV box.

They were free?!??! Seriously, I thought they just got a card from the FCC that gave them a "discount" on the box. That was another scam, everyone that I have spoken with says they don't work worth a damn! But it was Congress's way of easing the pain of making millions of TV sets useless in an instant.

They also cashed the "stimulus" check,... I could go on and on.

They kept mine.

My point being, before we jump the gun and start yelling that we want true freedom, do we really want freedom? If most people knew what real freedom was all about, they will gladly accept their socialized life with big brother first.

Yeah, if it were true freedom, I would dearly love to have it. I think you see the same dynamic with people when it comes to guns. They talk a lot of big talk at gun shows but when it comes right down to it, they would shit their panties if THE EVENT they keep yammering about actually happened.

 

[R.A.T.]

I'm all for true freedom....in every sense of the word from business to private lives but as you state, Don, that is a huge leap that I believe (Hell, I know) 99 percent of the populace could not handle AT ALL! The world is made of followers that need to be told what to do, that need to be told how to think, that need to have someone subsidize them in some manner or fashion. True freedom would mean true Individualism with government's role being punishing those who violate others, settling dispute among parties, protecting the borders of the United States, etc. Bringing about true freedom would mean bringing about the end of social programs because true freedom means I don't have to pay for something I choose not to participate in. Like I said, the worst moochers I have found in the world call themselves Libertarians.

 

[Don Rearic]

The very creation of "health insurance," for example, has made Doctors unaffordable to common people. The Doctors who want incredible amounts of money for their services would not be able to obtain that level of pay without insurance companies artificially supporting them, i.e., the wealthy would not be able to keep them in business so they would have to lower their own salary, what they charge, and healthcare would once again be affordable to anyone with a regular, ordinary job. Just one facet.

 

[R.A.T.]

Exactly amigo. That's is called a true free market at work.

 

[Don Rearic]

Oh yeah, I'd love to have it. I just don't think it will ever happen no matter how hard we, the regular folks, try. At some point I fear we would become like a person who is vehemently opposed to self-defense. They believe that self-defense is wrong, no matter what. When you explain to them various scenarios or whatever, they simply say, "Peace won't happen if we don't try, that's why I won't be involved in violence." That's sort of the way I feel about economics and related issues, I would love to have what you would love to have I just don't think it is ever going to happen. Which...sucks.

 

[blackfeetmageet]

Commando, Predator, Raw Deal, Running Man are my favorite Schwarzenegger flicks. :thumbup::thumbup:

What about TOTAL RECAL

 

[blackfeetmageet]

I'm all for true freedom....in every sense of the word from business to private lives but as you state, Don, that is a huge leap that I believe (Hell, I know) 99 percent of the populace could not handle AT ALL! The world is made of followers that need to be told what to do, that need to be told how to think, that need to have someone subsidize them in some manner or fashion. True freedom would mean true Individualism with government's role being punishing those who violate others, settling dispute among parties, protecting the borders of the United States, etc. Bringing about true freedom would mean bringing about the end of social programs because true freedom means I don't have to pay for something I choose not to participate in. Like I said, the worst moochers I have found in the world call themselves Libertarians.

Seriously, If people want to call themseves liberals then their goal should be to liberate people and stand for freedom (not gun control, for example).

 

[Grump]

They believe that self-defense is wrong, no matter what. When you explain to them various scenarios or whatever, they simply say, "Peace won't happen if we don't try, that's why I won't be involved in violence."(

I call bullshit.

They might think differently when they, or their loved one, is involved in violence through no choice of their own. I don't believe that they would just stand there and let someone beat the life out of them, or their loved one, without putting up some type of self defense. Self defense is instinctive and "Peace, bro" ain't gonna satisfy that instinctive urge.

 

[R.A.T.]

I call bullshit.

They might think differently when they, or their loved one, is involved in violence through no choice of their own. I don't believe that they would just stand there and let someone beat the life out of them, or their loved one, without putting up some type of self defense. Self defense is instinctive and "Peace, bro" ain't gonna satisfy that instinctive urge.

Not trying to get into a debate but there have been people all over the world that did merely stand there and accept the beating, allowed their families to be killed or even die themselves in the name of "peace". There are some STRANGE SOBs out there, brother!

 

[Mrs.Shotgunner11]

Not trying to get into a debate but there have been people all over the world that did merely stand there and accept the beating, allowed their families to be killed or even die themselves in the name of "peace". There are some STRANGE SOBs out there, brother!

honey we have some strang sobs IN HERE! i'm sure boats willingly takes a beating a few nights a week.

 

[Don Rearic]

I call bullshit.

They might think differently when they, or their loved one, is involved in violence through no choice of their own. I don't believe that they would just stand there and let someone beat the life out of them, or their loved one, without putting up some type of self defense. Self defense is instinctive and "Peace, bro" ain't gonna satisfy that instinctive urge.

Now, why would you call bullshit on what I said? It's not my philosophy my friend, but to deny that it's out there and that people actually die because of these poor choices is sort of bizarre.

But listen, what they do when the attack happens is basically meaningless after they supported gun control for years and years and years, you know? The damage is done through their vote, personal lobbying efforts on other weak-minded people and their wallet being opened for people like Sarah Brady.

On the other hand, some people do experience violence and they move to our way of thinking. But some never do. The mother of one of my good friends is so anti-gun, if you spoke to her about it, she would make your head hurt. She had a gun stuck in her face back in the late 1970s, working in a pizzeria up in Baltimore City and at the same time, she is a flaming liberal and believes criminals are treated too harshly. I mean, I've talked with her at great length...her way of thinking is almost impossible to comprehend. Uh, not to put too fine a point on it, she's an idiot. This woman is now in her late 50s and she still believes the same way. She absolutely does not believe in lifting a finger to stop an attack unless it is to pick up a phone and call the police, and she also despises them. Go figure.

She is not the only one.

Sure, some will change when the violence strikes and if they are lucky, they will make it out alive. Or, they might change their mind but being in the middle of the attack and being outgunned or simply back on the heels with the attacker winning, they die...so the point is moot.