if youre stuck without a fixed blade will your folder hold up .

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gutsy

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i would really like to hear from cliff stamp on this one . when you find yourself in a potentual survival situation and you dont have your trusty fixed blade what folder s would hold up to wood cutting and fire starting ? im sure that battoning a folder is probably not a good idea but what if you had to. the river gods are notorious for stealing nice fixed blades as well as MURPHY and i would like to hear your opinion on this and all others as well . i know its a big WHAT IF but bear with me .
 
1. Buy a tough folder. (Debate to follow,)

2. Hold handle between thumb and first finger and tap, tap, tap on blade (between prayers).

(The Murphy's were well-known to be optimists. "Can" and "can't" have no relationship to what goes wrong.)
 
i carry an emerson cqc8 plain edge . there was enough money spent on it and eki says / proclaims that its tough so it had better hold up or else. i know cliff stamp put a sog x ray through the paces and it didnt look to pretty . made me wonder about my emerson knife and if ole cliff had gotten a hold of it instead . better keep my knife away from him just to be safe.
 
I can recommend the SERE 2000 as one of the toughest folders around. If you break a S2K you are in a situation that a knife is not going to get you out of.
 
Batoning a folder is fairly hard, if you consider that spine whacks get the abuse label and that is just the weight of the knife which for a folder is usually just a quarter or a pound or so, however a baton can be several pounds so the impacts are *MUCH* stronger.

If you have to use a folder for felling it usually isn't much of a concern because the impacts don't need to be that heavy, I have done it with a bunch of folders recently with no ill effects, can can cut down sticks easily large enough for shelters and such, 2-4".

However for splitting, unless you have really clear wood this won't get you anywhere, you have to hit the blade fairly hard in order to split anything cross grained or knotted. There are a couple of things you can do besides just beating harder on the blade :

1) don't engage the lock, this works on small woods, more narrow than the blade length

2) carve splitting wedges and start the cut with the knife but finish it with the wedges

That being said this is something I intend to look at more because there are makers aggressively promoting folders for such uses now such as Ritter so it would be informative to know just how hard they can be used.

-Cliff
 
In general you can just break branches and gather fallen wood for a fire. You don't even need to cut the branches to length. You just start burning one end and slowly feeding your branch into the center. You can make breaking branches easier by a little whittling into the sides without removing your shaving. You do that around a few places and then break. I wouldn't try to split anything thicker than about one inch and that only with a rather thick blade like a Buck 110.

I always have my minimal survival kit on me. That is a SAK and a Bic lighter. Anything more than that is gravy. I'm not expecting to build a log cabin.
 
id like to see such a test myself . im curious to see wich knives actually hold up and wich ones dont . there is indeed a lot of claims made by manufactures out there about how tough their knives are . well see . it may ruffle some tail feathers . i really like emersons and strider s and am curious to see what they will do under stress. go for it man, and give holler when you find out what folders youre gonna use . thanks cliff!
 
J. J. Magnum said:
I can recommend the SERE 2000 as one of the toughest folders around. If you break a S2K you are in a situation that a knife is not going to get you out of.
Click to expand...

YOu can break nearly any folder in 5 seconds flat by embedding its tip and prying on it, the S2K is not immune to this any more than other folders.

A folder is not a survival knife by any stretch and is dangerous to assume otherwise.

That said it should be able to take some remedial pounding as Cliff describes accompanied by Thomas's prayers.

I look forward to Cliff putting to bed this nonsense once and for all by snapping some high priced and over marketed folders under the "Survival" knife pounding and prying tests he does.

skam
 
Most people that carry a fixed blade knife everywhere are crazy or dont live near or need to go to a public place with it on. A good folder will do fine and is easy to carry:thumbup: . almost any knife can feather a stick to light a fire with.
 
Jeff Clark said:
In general you can just break branches and gather fallen wood for a fire. You don't even need to cut the branches to length. You just start burning one end and slowly feeding your branch into the center. You can make breaking branches easier by a little whittling into the sides without removing your shaving. You do that around a few places and then break. I wouldn't try to split anything thicker than about one inch and that only with a rather thick blade like a Buck 110.

I always have my minimal survival kit on me. That is a SAK and a Bic lighter. Anything more than that is gravy. I'm not expecting to build a log cabin.
Click to expand...

After 2 weeks of heavy rain you need to split/pry large diameter woods to get dry wood from it or else fire is very hard to acheive or takes too much time.

Skam
 
SubaruSTi said:
Most people that carry a fixed blade knife everywhere are crazy or dont live near or need to go to a public place with it on. A good folder will do fine and is easy to carry:thumbup: . almost any knife can feather a stick to light a fire with.
Click to expand...

Come live where I do you'll change your mind quick;) .

A folder is not a heavy use bush knife period. Its better than nothing however.

Skam
 
Skammer has it right....

Most people that carry a fixed blade knife everywhere are crazy or dont live near or need to go to a public place with it on.
Click to expand...

I don't like this kind of reference....there are those who would omitthe fixed blade part...and just say those who carry a knife are crazy...

Making this statement either stems from ignorance...or is meant to gain attention...

Carry a folder...or a fixed...but for damn sakes carry a knife...

Shane
 
skammer said:
YOu can break nearly any folder in 5 seconds flat by embedding its tip and prying on it, the S2K is not immune to this any more than other folders.

A folder is not a survival knife by any stretch and is dangerous to assume otherwise.

That said it should be able to take some remedial pounding as Cliff describes accompanied by Thomas's prayers.

I look forward to Cliff putting to bed this nonsense once and for all by snapping some high priced and over marketed folders under the "Survival" knife pounding and prying tests he does.

skam
Click to expand...

Yes you can break any folder like this and pretty much any knife like this if you try hard enough but I have yet to have the use for such a technique or see the reason to use a knife like that.
People people a knife is a tool if you don't respect your tools they won't be there when you need them. A working brain in a survival situation is a necessity a knife is a bonus so don't squander your bonus byhaving your most important tool functuon poorly.

Why do we test knives in ways we would not use them??

wanna split a piece of wood for dry tinder use a rock.

Abe
 
One of the well known manufacturers has a logo showing a knife being driven through a bolt with a hammer...

What does this lead one to beleive?

It implies something more about the "quality" of their knives...

So when I broke the tip off of the treasured knife...I wondered why it broke...

I wasn't doing anything terribly hard...not pounding...it just broke...while I was cutting the hip joint out of a deer carcass....I made a sort of round cut that allowed the point to slide into the joint....and around...and snick...broke tip...no lateral pressure...nothing...just a slight bind...

I was too young to know what Warranty meant....

Just some thoughts about implied usage...I also put some thoughts into the recent BK7 thread in the Camillus forum....

If a manufacturer says...go ahead pry with it...then it should not break when you pry with it...regardless of the great warranty...or the price...

Same goes for pounding...or scraping toejam....

Shane

Shane
 
actually in a survival situation I could care less about the warranty, or the manufacturer I want a functional tool so if something is likely to break that tool and I can find another method of doing that thing I will do it.
 
Sometimes you are just going to be in a situation where nothing you have on you will matter. A folder will make decent wedges to split logs. You can batton the blade gently but firmly to cut small trees. I think a lot of the time we try to get too much out of one peice of kit.

IMHO any of the more robust folders like a Manix, Skirmish, Lonewolf will do fine in a pinch. Maybe 2 fixed blades should be the norm, rahter than a folder and a fixed. I know that despite my love of folders over fixed I never take a folder out with me on hikes.
 
For me this is where common sense comes in. If you're caught without a fixed blade and what you want your folder to do could break it, DON"T DO IT!!
Lets face it, whenever you start to comprimise with any thing chances are it won't do any one thing well. Can you paddle whitewater in a touring canoe? Yes I have done it,,IT SUCKED! Can you paddle flat water in a whitewater boat? Yes,, THAT SUCKED TOO!! Now days, as it has always been, a specialty item made for doing one thing,very well, PERIOD. In a pinch do your best with what you have and there is no such thing as cheating when you are trying to stay alive. We as humans have risen to the top because we have been able to adapt and improvise.
I have cut green saplings 2" in dia. with my Opinel #8.Easily. Stand with the sapling under your arm and bend it as much as you can then cut on the side that is in tension. It comes loose pretty dramaticly. If you can't split wood in cold weather it's gonna be a long night. Deal with it or die, but don't break your knife it might be all there is between life and death.
 
shane justice said:
Skammer has it right....



I don't like this kind of reference....there are those who would omitthe fixed blade part...and just say those who carry a knife are crazy...

Making this statement either stems from ignorance...or is meant to gain attention...

Carry a folder...or a fixed...but for damn sakes carry a knife...

Shane
Click to expand...

A fixed blade knife gets in the way of alot on your belt doing everyday things, like driving and siting and its weight. for everyday use its not practical to wear a fixed blade on most days.
 
Why do I have an image of someone batoning a Victorinox Classic through a mighty oak tree? :D

It seems like you should be okay if you hit the blade well enough ahead of the lock (if you can) that you're not putting much stress on it (Cliff's suggestion to not lock it makes a lot of sense too). I'd expect you'd be more likely to break the blade when you have to twist it to get it free after you got it stuck into the wood by batoning it in the first place, then found you couldn't go deep enough to split whatever it is you're trying to split.

The method mentioned about about prestressing the branch by bending it as far as it will go, then cutting it works really well (and it's something I've actually done, as oppose to my conjecture on batoning). It's just a little application of the mechanics of materials we all learned in engineering school, right? ;)
 
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