if youre stuck without a fixed blade will your folder hold up .

[SubaruSTi]

I pry full body weight on my blades all the time and in my 35 yrs of outdoor experience and it is needed from time to time. The trick is to know your blades can handle it, which I do.

As a cop do you only have plans to fire your sidearm 3 shots for fear of a jam or do you fire it knowing with confidence it wont.

Beating on or using a product for what it was designed for is not "potentially dangerous garbage" its expected. If you have fear of hurting your equipment time for an upgrade.

Skam

That is a completely different analogy than one that should be used. A knife will break, if you need your full weight on a knife its time to buy a hatchet or a saw. are you using it as a crowbar? if so your a total moron and need a crowbar. a knife is for cuting, not being a magic thing that cuts, flys, has sex, and dose trig for you.

 

[gutsy]

wow . how great a matter a little fire kindleth.thanks ebbtide and others espesually cliff stamp for all the info . i usually carry a bk7 when out in the boonies but i do occasionally wonder what would happen if i didnt have it when i need it seeing how much easier it is to carry a good folder every day than a fixed blade . God forbidd . i dont plan on intentionally abusing or pushing my folders limits in the feild because i DONT ABUSE MY TOOLS . im not well off financially , thats why i carry a becker [cause i cant afford a busse] and i really take pride that i finally got an emerson cqc8. its my edc knife and it has a very good warranty and i know that i could depend on it to perform [normal] tasks in the feild like carving and the like . could i use it with a batton if i had to? i dont know but if i did i would most certainly tap tap instead of wham wham based on what ive heard from you guys . i cant afford another folder for a long time and this is what ive got i hope it would serve me well in the situations described as not felling trees or battoning through knots or spearing a grizzly for supper . all i can really say about the replys is WOW . who should i listen to? whos biased and who wants to give genuine advice ? i might actually "test" my folder just a little bit sometime . i am kinda nervous being a newbie on the forums and this thred attracting so many replies so fast . im sorry if this was a touchy subject . maybe cliff stamp will put our minds at ease one day when he "tests" the whole lot and tells all. THAT will definitly rock the boat !! good posts and keep em comin

 

[mwelch8404]

Jim,

I referenced the door prying only as an example of what a decent blade could do (without breaking) not that you would do it I should have clarified...

Please hear the disbelief in my voice over this comment.

Please post a streaming video. Take your favorite fixed blade to the near by wrecking yard and pry a door open from the outside.

Additionally, please post a list of the other tools you have used to succesfully pry open car doors.

 

[Temper]

This place seems to have less and less 'Discussion' and more and more partisan arguments.

Just out of curiosity, when did the humble pocket knife turn into a backhoe, drill, prybar & 'Intergalactic Star Destroyer'? Was it from the 80's or 90's that 'hard core' 'High speed' and all those other schoolboy wet dream-esque statements came to be usual fayre for knife ads?

Personally I havent seen the need to ever destroy something no matter how fragile, you can always fashion another tool using your knife. The little Opinel will readily make wedges and a little tapping on a sapling will yeild you a fine batton for the wedges. If you dont have the time or the skill then you are probably up the proverbial creek. Sometimes you are just going to be SOL.

 

[mwelch8404]

I have broken folders, fixed blades, sak's and multi-tools.

But in each and every case, I KNEW I was going break the tool, that I was pressing my luck. I'm only surprised when I'm doing something stupid and the tool survives.

 

[gutsy]

roger that temper ! i have learned alot hear , cliff stamp in particular . it would be nice to hear from people that have actually pride open car doors[pictures?] ,never tried that and probably never will . i would like to know if my cqc8 would hold up under normal survival tasks within its scope as a folder. its the one i would most likely be carrying . thanks in advance.

 

[Ebbtide]

Gutsy, don't be put off by the big response.
You are searching for knowledge and that is oh so very commendable.
Learning is growing.
When you stop learning (& think you have all the answers) you begin to die.

As I have said before, I am no expert.
I don't have a survival school, a following or a knife named after me.
I do have a desire to learn.

You asked a simple question, and some of us tried to answer it.
Others ignored the actual question to expound their beliefs, recite their mantra if you will.

Take from this what you will, but be welcome here.

 

[gutsy]

thank you ebbtide. and thanks for pleading my case and original questions earlier in the thread. gaining knowledge is why i originaly joined blade forums but ive seen people get bashed pretty bad [not here as much as others] . the knowledge from most of these guys is amazing on this kinda stuff . im out in the woods alot and the information one can gain from hear is priceless. i appreciate the good attitude and helpful advice from those who gave it.

 

[gutsy]

i wish i could learn first hand from some of you guys. ive had to learn the hard way with everything so far. some things are common sense but other s some helpful instruction could have prevented truly unfortunate situations for me . im usually alone when out in the boonies and i know i can benifit greatly from any advice i can get hear .

 

[cleaner145]

Gutsy I too am no expert on wilderness survival but I have been a LEO for over 20 years and used a knife quite often as a tool. As has been stated over and over a fixed blade is often the preferred option, but a quality folder is a whole lot better that nothing. Common sense does come into play, but you are almost certainly going to know if you are about to do something that is going to break your knife before you do it. Limit your uses to things that are not going to break the only tool you have. You may not be able to fell the mighty oak, but I bet you can locate smaller branches to deal with for fire or shelter. I am confident in my folder and although it has a lifetime warranty like many quality manufacturers, I have no intention of testing it to breaking. I know I can do that, but what is the point. If that's the only knife you have, you have to make it work for you. Know your tools and practice your skills and you are already over your biggest hurdle.

Good Luck :thumbup:

 

[gutsy]

ive never used my folder for any tasks other than small cutting chores ,i usually use my becker . but im going to go out and try some limbing and tap tap s just to see if i like it . i would rather find out here in my back yard than out in the woods seeing as how the hospital is alot closer that way. thanks

 

[Kevin the grey]

I,m getting to like folders less and less as I try to do more and more . That being said I have a case trapper in my pocket that I use as a work knife until its had its day . This thing seems to rust up faster than the carbon steel blades I have . I guess a good tough folder in your pocket is good for emergencies . I would still feel better with something more substantial riding on my hip .

 

[gutsy]

i usually keep my fixed blade in my truck as well as my crowbar and norse hawk. my whole kit stays in there most of the time . folder in my pocket and the rest close by. only problem is if someone breaks in your truck and steals it . in my opinion you should pack your truck kit accordingly/easily replaceable.some may disagree though.

 

[gutsy]

kevin the grey, have you tried the becker necker ? i havent but it seems that it might be a good alternative to a folder .

 

[Kevin the grey]

A becker necker might be considered a concealed weapon up my way . We are not allowed to carry one of those little 1;4inch cardboard cutters unless we have an immediate use for it . Of course some policeman have more semse than others and apply the law as needed . I don,t want to descend into an ethics debate over this as it doesn,t go with the thread . a folder is a little less threatening and available and so passes muster more . As soon as I get in the car headed towards the country I have a l8ittle more available to me than a case folder . In fact it tends to weigh the car down some ! L:O:L Long bow firestarter axe ,hawk, kukuuri, blankets rope and most of the rest that a thinking man needs .

 

[plattj1]

I batoned a Benchmade 710hs through hard oak seasoned firewood just to see what would happen. I did it twice and had to hit the knife very hard to drive it lengthwise through a 16" quartered log. It was fine, but it was tough on the blade coating. I was impressed, I had doubts it would hold up when I was halfway through the first try. The biggest difference between the 710hs and my Cold Steel SRK was the blade thickness. The thicker SRK splits like a wedge, the thinner 710hs had to be batoned almost all the way through, I was afraid to twist or pry on it.

JP

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Splitting wood is usually not neccessary.

It only needs to be necessary once for it to matter. Here all the dead fall has been soaked through and is covered by a layer of ice as it rained for several days then the temp dropped and it snowed and everything froze. You can just whittle all of this off, but it goes much faster if you can chop or pry away to get to the dry core. Yes you don't need a knife to pry, you don't even need a knife to make a fire, nor matches, nor a ferro rod or a mag stick, it just gets easier the more capable your tools. Just like it is easier to handle low temps if you have more suitable clothing.

...a knife is for cuting

Most of the tactical and extreme use survival knives are not so strictly limited, you don't make a knife as thick as a prybar (more are much thicker even, yes even folders) and out of a steel which is used to make JACKHAMMER bits and then label it abuse to subject it to impacts or prying, those tools steels are used in knives to allow them to be used for such tasks. It is intrinsic to their composition to trade things like fine cutting ability to enable them to take heavy shock and prying.

...when did the humble pocket knife turn into a backhoe, drill, prybar ...

When the designs moved away from multi-blade stockman patterns with 1/16" thick hollow ground blades to 1/4" sabre ground blades which don't actually cut very well as they are meant for heavier uses.

Take your favorite fixed blade to the near by wrecking yard and pry a door open from the outside.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281054

Prying the actual door open would likely be problematic unless either the hinge or latch was disengaged or broken. You can cut through the hinge with a knife and a heavy baton really quickly though it might be more useful to try to cut around it. I'll try it tomorrow. You can break the window out fairly easily and cut through the roof *much* easier than trying to pry/cut off a door. The roof is actually trivial, McClung used to use that with his knives to promote them vs the jaws because he could do it much quicker than normal responce times. It however doesn't take much of a knife to actually do it, it is similar to the CS door stab, it sounds impressive until you try it.

-Cliff

 

[SubaruSTi]

hes killing us with facts!!!!!!!

 

[mwelch8404]

...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281054

Prying the actual door open would likely be problematic unless either the hinge or latch was disengaged or broken. You can cut through the hinge with a knife and a heavy baton really quickly though it might be more useful to try to cut around it. I'll try it tomorrow. You can break the window out fairly easily and cut through the roof *much* easier than trying to pry/cut off a door. The roof is actually trivial, McClung used to use that with his knives to promote them vs the jaws because he could do it much quicker than normal responce times. It however doesn't take much of a knife to actually do it, it is similar to the CS door stab, it sounds impressive until you try it.

-Cliff

The statement was about prying a car door open. I agree. Unless the hinges or latch are broken, you're probably not going to get enough leverage. I KNOW my Camp Tramp is hefty, but "popping" loose either the latch or hinges even with my gorilla bar is iffy.

When you say "pry a car door open" I picture walking up to an intact, locked car door and trying to pry it open.

As far as cutting the sheet metal, a screwdriver and hammer will scream through that.

As far as the jaws and other extracation devices, they can't be beat. But you mentioned response time of the first responders. Unless there is IMMEDIATE danger to the victim, you shouldn't be moving them anyway. Of course, gaining access to treat them in place can be difficult.

 

[LSkylizard]

I sent my SAK and leatherman back to their respective manufacturers today. It is clear they are completely inaddequate tools as I am sure they will neither pry open a car door or cut down a large oak.

I am shopping for a wheel-barrel and a good chainsaw. The wheelbarrel has to be able to travel in all terrains and must float. The saw must be able to run on maneur or other similar naturally occurring products in the woods (maybe deer droppings or bear dung). It must use animal fat and/or vegetable extracts as oil. The chain must be self sharpening. It must be able to make dust of varrying degrees of fineness to facilitate use in different stages of fire starting. It must have the ability to change from fine cutting mode to rough cutting. It must also have a safety shield of some sort to keep it from kicking back at me. I am willing to pay a little extra for a saw that will continue to cut through the trunk unattended once I start the cut. This will enable me to carry on with other chores.

I am no expert. However, I do not think you are up a creek and going to die just because you lack your fixed blade. You might be disadvantaged. I think wanting a simple answer to a question is NOT unreasonable. There are questions that lack a simple answer. However, that is NOT always the case. There are those here with reportedly great experience who's answers are as clear and simple as a tropical river after an upstream mud slide. I do not know why they have difficulties with these questions or why they are unwilling to answer them. I would almost guarantee that if someone took this question to the next step and asked what fixed blade to take....many of these same individuals would hedge and start talking about what trees are in the woods, what lunar cycle, etc... Their answers would almost certainly end by saying you need a variety. This is impractical. Sometimes, maybe all you have is what was in the airplane luggage hold, what survived the ship wreck, what survived the car crash. I for one do NOT carry 3 axes, multiple multi-tools, multiple fixed and folding blades as my EDC. I don't luggage check all these items when I board a plane or luxary cruiseliner. I don't take them with me on a day trip in a friends sailboat. Other soldiers and I are NOT authorized to carry a large assortment of personal "tools" when we deploy. Finally, numerous pioneers in days past did not have the resources, understanding, or benefit of technology to carry what we discuss in this forum. Many died but numerous lived. Does that mean we shouldn't discuss modern tools/technology/techniques? No! But, its also doesn't mean we can not discuss simplistic/minimalistic approaches either. It just shouldn't be such an affront to the Lords of Busse to try and undertsand how to get by with a minimalistic approach. Not everyone requires a quiver of blade to walk into their back yard and throw a stick for fido to fetch. I believe that if one can become skilled with minimal resources then having that special item is just gravy! Again, I am not an expert and I am sure some will point out my ignorance and the necessity for an airlift quiver...I guess I will go for my wheelbarrel with chainsaw and collect the natural fuel they provide in their response:jerkit:

PS: what Busse should I carry as my EDC if my trusty folder is absent....


I agree with this:

Gutsy, don't be put off by the big response.
You are searching for knowledge and that is ...commendable..