if youre stuck without a fixed blade will your folder hold up .

[SubaruSTi]

What do you do and where are you from cliff?

 

[allenC]

I answer the original question of the thread...yes, most folders will hold up just find for survival if you're clever enough to know how to use them.

I seriously doubt that anyone has ever died in the wilderness solely because they had a folding knife and not a fixed-blade.

Cheers,
Allen.

 

[Outdoors]

...and not attempt to denegrate others because they don't make the same choice I do or say a tool has no use or value because it isn't exactly what I would want.

-Cliff

Well, if that is really true Cliff, I suggest reconsider the tone of your posts. That certainly isn't the way you read.

Pat

 

[Cliff Stamp]

What do you do and where are you from cliff?

NL, Canada, I am currently finishing a PhD thesis in solid state physics, which should have been done years ago but I took a break after my comprehensive exam to teach full time for awhile, mainly to see if I wanted to either to do that primarily or go into research.

My internet profile is fairly transparent, I always use my real name, use a real email, not anon, and give full contact details. As an aside, the only reason my post count is high as I was a member of Bladeforums from the beginning, my post frequency is actually really low, ~4 posts a day.

-Cliff

 

[Thomas Linton]

Cliff, I gotta say that you and Skammer are living on a MUCH tougher planet than the rest of us, since every day is a struggle for "survival". Not every knife has to cut theough sheet metal, and most folks don't use their knives to dig with, survival situation or not. You go out of your way to make your "scenarios" as slanted towards your choice of knives as is possible, and when soneone points out another way (or type of knife) to accomplish the same task, you up the ante by making the soil rockier, or the wood tighter grained, or whatever.

The bottom line is that you and skammer both have never provided any real proof of your credentials, and your sole purpose for being on the forums is to arhue with and ridicule anyone who doesn't fall into line with your way of thinkng. Is your life truly so shallow that this is the best way to spend your time?

"Bottom line"? This is a forum for people to share information and opinions. The limiting factor is manners. Agree or disagree agreeably and this forum will flourish. Make personal attacks and few will come here. Most expect adult behavior.

While I do not agree with Cliff on many issues, the value of carrying personality clashes into every thread possible is zero - as is counting the noses in the pack.

If I don't care about knives that can carve up cars, I simply disregard the information/claims/statements. Cliff does give his views on light-weight knives.

"Credentials"? This is the Internet. No one comes where with any "seal of approval." Make up your own mind. Besides, authority is a poor substitute for experience.

 

[SubaruSTi]

NL, Canada, I am currently finishing a PhD thesis in solid state physics, which should have been done years ago but I took a break after my comprehensive exam to teach full time for awhile, mainly to see if I wanted to either to do that primarily or go into research.

My internet profile is fairly transparent, I always use my real name, use a real email, not anon, and give full contact details. As an aside, the only reason my post count is high as I was a member of Bladeforums from the beginning, my post frequency is actually really low, ~4 posts a day.

-Cliff

Cool. I was just curious becuase your posts are so well written.

 

[trout #2]

I haven't made it through all the pages of this thread, but thought I would throw this experience in here.....



A couple of days ago I was clearing out some trees that fell in a recent ice storm and had the opportunity to baton my Spyderco Manix some. I had some 6-8' long limbs I needed to remove from the trunks. The limbs were 3-4" in diameter at the trunk. The trees were pine and some other deciduous species I didn't know.

On the smaller limbs, I carefully batoned the blade in an unlocked position into the wood at a 90 degree angle with ~1/3" of the spine remaining out of the wood. The limbs were then easily broken off with the starter cut.

With the larger limbs, I made 2 shallower diagonal cuts to remove a wedge of wood. I then batoned at a 90 degree angle into the sides of the cut-out. Doing this with the blade unlocked was very awkward and I ended up locking the blade while batoning. Again, once I made these starter cuts, the limbs were easy to break off.

The damage: I ended up cutting and breaking about 6 limbs in this manner. My Manix had a very sappy blade at the end but still seemed very sharp by my slightly dangerous "feel the edge w/your finger" technique. Once I cleaned the sap off, it was still shaving-sharp and push-cut paper as easily as it had before. I noticed the pivot got a bit looser after my little adventure. I re-tightened it and everything was good; no play, smooth action, and good lock-up. I suppose I should re-Loctite the pivot screw.

With appropriate technique and amount of force, the Manix appears to hold up just fine in this type of use. I imagine you wouldn't want to do this routinely, but it seems sufficient for creating enough wood for a basic shelter. The size and amount of limbs I cut would easily frame out a simple lean-to or debris shelter. I will grant the "large fixed blade" camp that a Manix wouldn't be very efficient at splitting large pieces of wood due to its size, but neither is it a "woefully inadequate folder" in the woods.

I think I'll cross-post this in the review forum for people looking for Manix-specific info as well.

 

[gutsy]

thanks for the post trout#2 . my experience with my folder was similar and i learned alot more about my folder in the process. id never cut wood before with it . i just started wondering if i could if i had to and turns out it did . i think most folder s will hold up fine as long as youre careful and the knife has a positive lock up.im glad you had a good experience and not a character building one if you know what i mean.

 

[numberthree]

My Spyderco military will unlock itself when used with a baton, but that's usually because I'm not holding it just right. My Native, which is a lockback, seems to accept batoning without reservation, though I rarely need to do so.

I find that you adjust your methods to the tools that you have available. If I carry an axe or larger blade, I tend to need to chop more for some reason. When I'm out with only a SAK or a folder, I find I can still accomplish everything, but in different ways, often using less energy because I will more carefully think about what I need to accomplish and IF I really need to accomplish it. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

[Thomas Linton]

I find that you adjust your methods to the tools that you have available. If I carry an axe or larger blade, I tend to need to chop more for some reason. When I'm out with only a SAK or a folder, I find I can still accomplish everything, but in different ways, often using less energy because I will more carefully think about what I need to accomplish and IF I really need to accomplish it. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Many paths to enlightenment. :thumbup:

 

[V_Shrake]

Thomas, I'm sorry if you feel that my tone was advesarial regarding Clifff and Skammer. As a general rule you're correct that a smooth running forum doe so without personal attaks. But the fact is that tis forum was forever altered (some would say ruined) due t the actions of the Bussephiles and thier head cheerleader Cliff. The only reason I even posted in this thread was that Gutsy is asking for info and getting bad answers of the usual sort from "big blade" Cliff. Personally I don't care, but when I see such bad "advice" being doled out to someone new to the game I want to try and counterbalance that whenever possible.

Lately cliff has changed his MO and he's quit talking down about Moras and folders for survival. In anyone else this would appear to be growth. With cliff it just means he's run out of ways to stir folks up with talk about big knives and he's gone in search of new topics to talk down to people about. Cliff LIVES for the arguements and controversy he stirs up, and really doesn't believe in much of anything, I suspect. He just wants people to pay attention to him, hence his perpetual "testing" :jerkit: of knives.

 

[Codger_64]

Personally, I like Cliffie's rants, and his opinions. I don't agree with most of them, but that is why they are known as "opinions", his or mine or yours. I see a lot of posts here where people are constantly buying the newest whiz-bang, snazzy named knife. I prefer to use my old tried and true knives that are older than the majority of members in this forum because they still work for me as the original "Old Timer", Henry B. Baer designed them to do. And I am an 'Ol Codger who doesn't believe in change for the sake of change. But, people buying the next fad knife is what keeps the cutlery wheels turning, the makers churning out new innovative designs, so that is cool too.

That said, I think we can agree to disagree without becoming disagreeable, and resorting to personal attacks Like I just read. It is a real good way to get yourself banned. Please play nice?

Codger

 

[Thomas Linton]

Thomas, I'm sorry if you feel that my tone was advesarial regarding Clifff and Skammer. As a general rule you're correct that a smooth running forum doe so without personal attaks. But the fact is that tis forum was forever altered (some would say ruined) due t the actions of the Bussephiles and thier head cheerleader Cliff.

"Feel"?

Look, I get it that there are folks who dislike Cliff. But the appearance is that you are dragging an ancient grudge into this thread. You have been honest enough to confirmed that appearance.

Personal attacks may satisfy some need to call names but do you actually think that they convince -- especially when based on conduct that, if it exists, took place "somewhere else"?

The only reason I even posted in this thread was that Gutsy is asking for info and getting bad answers of the usual sort from "big blade" Cliff. Personally I don't care, but when I see such bad "advice" being doled out to someone new to the game I want to try and counterbalance that whenever possible.

Then please present your case without the verbal dramatics. They just distract from your points.

Lately cliff has changed his MO and he's quit talking down about Moras and folders for survival. In anyone else this would appear to be growth. With cliff it just means he's run out of ways to stir folks up with talk about big knives and he's gone in search of new topics to talk down to people about. Cliff LIVES for the arguements and controversy he stirs up, and really doesn't believe in much of anything, I suspect. He just wants people to pay attention to him, hence his perpetual "testing" :jerkit: of knives.

"Yes, he's being nice now, but I know what it really means."

Guy, you are the one stirring the pot here.

I am old enough to know that the debate between advocates of big knives and small knives has been going on for generations. I have books in which "experts" (so acknowledged in their day) say NO fixed blade is appropriate and others that pump for large fixed-blades.

If you jump every big-knife advocate that shows up - 'cause you are one of the keepers of the truth - we'll never get adult discussion.

Everyone thinks he's right.
Everyone is prejudiced to some degree.
If the "yelling" would stop, maybe we could understand better.

Besides, if it isn't a khukuri it isn't really a knife at all.

 

[Brian Jones]

I'd rather have only one v_shrake on this forum than a thousand Cliff Stamps or his ilk, anytime, anyday. Folks, do not let Cliff suck you in, because he does not know a damn thing about survival. His pontificating posts are so way off it's ridiculous, and creates a very low signal-to-noise ratio. Those who keep hammering that "a folder is not a survival knife" obviously lack the knowledge and skill to adjust technique as said, and their one-track thinking and limitations are the only things they reveal to us.

Frankly, I am so pissed off at the time I have to waste with a bunch of crybabys, I may end up handing the mod job over to someone else. v-shrake's posts can stay because he said exactly what I feel, and saved me the trouble of having to write it myself.

That said, this thread is closing now, and if it continues the way it's been going here lately, if anyone might get banned, it'll be Cliff and others who waste bandwidth with their imaginary-world rants and excessively long posts, and for being so consistently off-topic and nauseating. In the survival game, if you can't explain it in just a few sentences, you can't explain it, period.

Grow the f*ck up people.