I'm a sharpening Kung Fu Master!

I'm no sharpening kung fu master, but I did manage a neat trick this past week. I got the blades on a Schrade Old Timer 8OT stockman sharp enough to "tree top" hairs on my arm using just a fine DMT diamond stone and a worn out EZ Lap diamond rod. In the past, my best with those tools was "hair popping." I got "tree top" sharp on a few knives back in the 1980s when I was still using a hard black arkansas stone to finish my edges. It was fun shaving my face with an SAK (dry) to freak-out my friends.

I've never really used a strop. I'm guessing it's probably necessary to get to kung fu master level sharpness.
 
Strange, but I got better results with wooden ruler, loaded by green cromium compaund, than using the leather strope, loaded with the same stuff.
 
Specops, do you condition the leather before you work in the compound? If so what do you use?

Thanks for the great thread guys, it's super informative.
 
Instead of stropping or shelling out big bucks for the waterstones, try "stropping" on a piece of paper backed by plate glass, you can still use your stropping compound but you really don't have to worry about rounding the edge over...just something I heard about :)

That should work just fine and better than leather. Good suggestion.
 
This is my first post, and I came here primarily to learn more about sharpening, so I'm happy this was the first thread I read. Great post.

The method you described is very close to the one I use, I just went into great detail to help fulloflead know every facet of what he was doing and why. Certainly there is a difference between the edge you want on different kitchen cutlery & working knives but!then there is that SPECIAL edge you want on that slicked up carry knife you have in your pocket. Fulloflead is quite well versed on blade geometry and regular honing. He had just never had anyone tell him step by step from starting with a piece of leather how to ready and season a strop, prepare the blade to be stropped and the 123's of stropping. I went to great detail yet kept out the excess bull that he needed to know to achieve and retain the razor sharp edge he had worked so hard to acquire. I told him the way I was taught by my Dad, who was taught by my Grand-Father and so on. Stropping is pretty much stropping but there are better ways for different blades and edges. After he's had time to practice a little he'll find it's as easy as you explained, he just had never been told the why's and how's and I don't mind helping a friend. It generally only takes me a lick or two to keep my knives shaving sharp because I never let them get dull, the great thing about stropping is once you have the bevel set on your edge it doesn't take but a few licks on the strop to keep it hair popping sharp and the way I sharpen my knives they stay sharp. I've always been a big fan of stropping because as you said you can retain a very sharp edge without removing hardly any noticable steel over years of use. I have knives that are older than my Father and the blades are in great shape because we all used a strop to keep our knives sharp after we got the starting bevel we desired on the blade. I carry a multitool these days, actually a couple. A Gerber and a Sebertool M-4. I always carry a SAK with me as my working knife, it's razor sharp but with a sharper angle on the edge. My never leave home without it knife however has a long smooth bevel that has been kept sharp with a strop from the day I got it and stays as sharp as anyone would ever need a knife to be. I live and work on a ranch and it involves a lot of cutting of leather, rope and many tough materials, the guys who come around here always ask to borrow my knife for one reason or the other and it never fails. As I'm warning them to be careful they cut themselves, with a surprised look on their face they say "That's the sharpest damned knife I've ever seen, how do you do it". That explains the usual pile of knives on my mantle waiting to be sharpened:eek: I do it for fun though because most people aren't inclined to put the time in that it requires to get the edge right then strop it to the right degree of sharpness without overdoing it. With all the gizmos and gadgets today us old free handers are a dieyng breed. Most people prefer to clamp a blade into a vise and quickly saw the edge down until it will cut. I prefer the tried and true method passed down from generation to generation in my family, freehand honing then stropping and when done properly and maintained properly the knives I sharpen stay sharp with very little maintenance. I hate to have someone hand me a relatively new knife with more steel ground off the blade than I probably would ever take off of it! It's one of those things that makes me sick:barf: . I'll usually give them the standard lecture of how they've take many years life off the blade then agree to sharpen it and repair the damage as best as I can as long as they'll learn a lesson from it, if it's brought back to me again with my beautiful edge ground down I just tell them to keep it because they are going to have a nub left soon anyway. But the one's who appreciate a fine edge that is sharp and stays sharp and bring it back to me to re-sharpen or learn to do it right themselves is a job worthwhile. I'll tell you the short version of a cowhand here on the ranch. One day this boy that trains horses here (it's a racehorse ranch) was custom fitting a halter to a green broke colt to start gentling but he had forgotten his knife, I was there working with them and he asked to borrow mine. I gave him the warning I give everyone before I hand my knife to them "Be careful, it's sharp". I guess their idea of sharp and mine are two different things because 8 out of 10 will cut themselves right off the bat the first time they use my knife. He was going to be doing some fairly complex shaping of leather and cut right through it to the bone in his thumb! With a strange look on his face he gasped "I never knew a knife could be that sharp!" I told him I'd warned him and to come to the ranch house and I'd stitch him up. I got him fixed up and made sure he had his tetanous shot recently, that's one thing most working cowboys keep track of and he had. He sheepishly said he had a special knife in his truck and asked if I'd sharpen it for him because he didn't want to mess up the pretty etching on the blade, I said sure, lets check it out. He pulled out an original Schatt & Morgan Stockman, not a re-made one, an original. He had gotten it from his Dad or Grandad and knew it was a special knife. I told him it really shouldn't be sharpened at all because it was quite a collectors item, original box and all. He said that when it was given to him he'd made a promise that he'd use it because it was a good knife and that was the reason it was given to him, he just hadn't found anyone he would trust to sharpen it yet, I could see why. It was beautiful, the original etching with Schatt & Morgan's makers mark and "File and Wire Tested" scrolled on it with intricate filework on just about every non cutting surface. I asked him if he was positive he wanted to have it sharpened, he said he had a promise to keep. I said I would under one condition, he had to bring it to me until he learned the right way to sharpen it, we had a deal. It didn't take much work to get a beautiful edge on all three blades and I do mean they were all beautiful, these were the knives of legend. I hadn't put as much as a knick on the etching and the edge was as close to perfect as I could get it on all of the blades. I stopped him the next morning on the way to the barn and hollered that his knife was ready, he couldn't believe it. I guess he thought it would be a month or something. He came running up the porch and I opened up the flannel cloth I had it wrapped in and he carefully opened it and one blade at a time looked it over and he actually was near to tears! He was so proud, he had his heirloom knife with the edge he wanted on it. That was about three years ago and I just touched it up a day or so back for him, he'd stayed true to his word. When it started to get dull he brought it to me and I cleaned it and oiled it and then touched up the blade's and after all of the use he's put into it the blades they still look like they have seen very little use. Man those knives are a work of art, it was a real treasure to get to work on it and I enjoy keeping it in good shape for him. Oh, I've taught him how to sharpen a knife the right way, he just won't even trust himself when it comes to that knife. So I added one more old time knife man to the list, actually I have converted several serrated slinging, sawing instead of slicing so called knife using guys to the way of the real edge and they all carry knives of quality with a good edge on it. I love a beautiful knife and can't stand to see one mistreated any more than I can a beautiful woman, either one of them will get me to fight just about as fast as the other, I just won't tolerate rude behavior to a work of art, a beautiful knife or a beautiful woman! They both have to be handled with tender love and care. My Wife appreciates my attitude too! LOL:D Keep your knives sharp, your guns oiled and stay off the skyline.
Vaya Con Dios,
SPECOPS.
 
I'm no Kung Fu master, but thanks to Thom Brogan sending me some polishing cloth and a glue stick, along with giving me lots of tips and tricks, I was able to cut a free hanging hair of my wife's last night. I used my Spyderco R2, and applied a 15 degree microbevel after cutting the edge off by cutting straight into the stone. I first used my Spyderco Medium stone, which got it popping hairs. Then I went to the fine stone and and it was catching some hairs above the skin. I used the ultra fine next and got the knife tree topping arm hairs. Next I glue sticked the polishing cloth to a plastic clipboard and started stropping, first going straight back in sections of the blade, then stropping while going tip to ricasso. After a couple minutes of this the edge was real nice under 100X and it was tree topping hairs higher above the skin than ultra fine finish could do. Total time of maybe 10 minutes. I then went upstairs and found a couple of my wife's hairs on the counter in the bathroom. With a very moderate speed (far from a fast swing) it cut the hair right in half. I grabbed the other hair I found and repeated the feat. The edge also is extremely biting when you do the MAurray Carter three finger test on it. Thanks to Thom for hooking me up with the cloth and giving me all kinds of tips and tricks to improve my sharpening. I'm not up to his level of being able to drop a hair on the blade and cut it, but I was definately happy with the results I got last night.

Mike
 
I'm a Kung Fu master wanna be. I've worked up to the point where I can push-cut printer paper at 4 inches from the hold point. I can cut a long hair by gently nudging it along the blade until it snags and cuts. I can tree-top cut arm hair about an eigth inch above the skin (more like tree-stump cutting). But I can't even come close to passing the three-finger test. :o
 
I find that highly polished edges have a much harder time passing the 3 finger test (not surprisingly). Same goes for larger edge angles.

The three finger test is from Murray Carter's DVD. You place the thumb on the spin and three fingers straight onto the edge with very light pressure. Then you move the fingers very slightly and gently along the edge. An edge that will pass the test with grab the skin on the fingertips and you will just wiggle "the meat around" instead of sliding along the blade. Of course, if you overdo it, you will simply cut into your fingers.
 
Me neither. My edges feel gritty-greasy under my fingers doing that test. Luckily, time, practice, and OCD will make it happen!

More modesty on your part, Thom. The Manix and Cara Cara you sent back to me had some good bite with the three finger test. I know our fingers are different, but those edges were far from greasy. Your points about time, practice and OCD of course are a very good and true observation. A few more years of practice in the basement and I'm sure our results will improve.

Mike
 
The three finger test is from Murray Carter's DVD. You place the thumb on the spin and three fingers straight onto the edge with very light pressure. Then you move the fingers very slightly and gently along the edge. An edge that will pass the test with grab the skin on the fingertips and you will just wiggle "the meat around" instead of sliding along the blade. Of course, if you overdo it, you will simply cut into your fingers.

He-he. YOU go first.:eek:

There are LOTS of tests I like better than that one.:D
(No offense.)

The level of sharp we're talking about in this thread has no really impact on knife usage. We're just splitting hairs here. (Yuck-yuck, hardee-har.) Most knife users won't see a difference in use from a "shaving" sharp edge to one that'll actually plane a hair.

I like to ACTUALLY use my knife for things you'd use an exacto knife for on many occasions because I generally work in the graphics/printing/publishing business, but that function can be obtained with any knife that's a little better than shaving sharp.

I started this obsession just because it was something very POOR at at one time and suddenly found myself rather good at. But all of this is really just academic.

Most of the time, these busy days, I take a Spyderco Sharpmaker stone, hold the knife in my hand edge angled to one side and just work on it like I'm filing in circles. Through just feeling and listening, I've been able to take many sub-shaving knives and been able to restore them to shaving in about 10 minutes. I've been able to convex edges this way and it works great on my already-convex Sebenza edges.

With that said, speed may be my next sharpening obsession.:D

.
 
He-he. YOU go first.:eek:

There are LOTS of tests I like better than that one.:D
(No offense.)

Already do it!

Tonight, Gunmike1 is has become a sharpening Kung Fu Master! He got his Dad's new Kershaw brand Cyclone folding pocketknife sharp enough to whittle fine hair! Sure, it means his scholarship has barely started, but he has hit the harder of the tasks.
 
Already do it!

Tonight, Gunmike1 is has become a sharpening Kung Fu Master! He got his Dad's new Kershaw brand Cyclone folding pocketknife sharp enough to whittle fine hair! Sure, it means his scholarship has barely started, but he has hit the harder of the tasks.


Beginner's luck. Like Daniel San catching a fly in his chopsticks the first time he tried, pissing off Mr. Miyagi in the process. I am still a yellow sash at best, I have a long way to go to hit black sash. I must say that I am impressed with this 13C26 though, as it was very good about not burring (unlike the first knife I tried in it), and it only took a couple minutes of D8XX time to bring it from 20 to 12 per side. My standard 15 degree microbevel with the Spyderco ceramics brought out some real nice sharpness in only a few more minutes, then the 1 micron polishing cloth finished it off nicely to a nice enough polish to whittle the wife's hair. Now I just need to get all of my knives this sharp, and I still strive for the edge that will cut a hair that is dropped on it. We all can have our dreams, no matter how unrealistic. I must keep hope alive!

Mike
 
...and I still strive for the edge that will cut a hair that is dropped on it. We all can have our dreams, no matter how unrealistic. I must keep hope alive!

Mike

You should submit that to Mythbusters. They just did a whole episode on Ninjas.
:D

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I took my Buck 112 folder in 420HC through all the EdgePro stones and polishing tapes a while back. It was push-cutting printer paper at 4 inches. For the last week or so I've been stropping it (CrO loaded paper on glass) every night for 10 minutes to settle my nerves. It just keeps getting sharper! It is push cutting out to 5 inches now. I assumed that over- polishing the edge would be counter productive, but I'm not seeing that yet. Oh by the way, it whittles hair.:cool:
 
...I've been stropping it... to settle my nerves.

Sharpening is therapeutic, isn't it? It always works for me. I think it has to do with spending some time focused on that tiny task which blocks out other things. Gunsmithing does the same for me. Any little task like that that requires focus.

I assumed that over- polishing the edge would be counter productive, but I'm not seeing that yet.

I agree. I've heard it said, many a time, that you should be careful not to over strop. I have not experienced this at all in my years of stropping. Although, it can happen, with coated knife where the coating is rather hard, that the edge will grow shorter and steeper because you're wearing away the uncoated steel. Eventually it's necessary to reprofile to back the coating off a bit.

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Great thread, guys. You have motivated me to get a proper sharpening system, and strop, and enroll in the School of Sharpification!
 
Strange, but I got better results with wooden ruler, loaded by green cromium compaund, than using the leather strope, loaded with the same stuff.

Leonard Lee recommends the use of wooden strops in his book "The complete Guide to Sharpening." I havent tried it myself, but it seems it would eliminate pesky bevel rounding.

On another note, after much conversing w/ Cliff and Thom about very sharp and coarse edges, I have finally gotten hair whittling sharpness from my 800 grit waterstone and an orange "fine" India stone. It may say fine, but its much coarser than the Spyderco version of fine.
 
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