i'm fed up with sharpening, what steel holds an edge forever?

440V is a wicked edge holder. I've got a 440V Spyderco Military in my pocket at this very moment. It holds a better edge than probably any steel I’ve ever tried. Maybe even better than Bob Dozier’s D2. I didn’t have to touch up the edge until 6 months after I got the knife, and that was after quite a bit of actual use. Talk about abrasion resistance!!!!

I did have to regrind the edge bevel to a convex shape though. The knife with its standard edge was nearly impossible to sharpen. It just took too many passes on a SharpMaker for me to hold the blade at a perfect angle for all of those passes. I’d invariably alter my angle here and there through the 100 strokes, and end up with a mediocre sharpening job. It almost drove me to madness.

Convexing the edge greatly decreased my chipping problems, and made it MUCH easier to sharpen. Hand American wet/dry paper is so abrasive that I can touch up the edge with just a couple strokes on each side of the blade. Convexing turned the Military from my ultimate love/hate relationship into the SUPERKNIFE.
 
You might want to search the archives. I remember (very partially) a steel by Rasta Frei :D
 
Buzzbait :

It just took too many passes on a SharpMaker for me to hold the blade at a perfect angle for all of those passes. I d invariably alter my angle here and there through the 100 strokes, and end up with a mediocre sharpening job.
Click to expand...

Using v-rods to do anything other than apply a secondary bevel is a huge waste of time. Hone the edge to shape with a benchstone and then apply a secondary bevel with the v-rod, it should only take a few passes per side depending on how close the grit on the rod matches the grit on the stone.

The benchstone shaping doesn't need to be accurate or precise. When I finish that stage the knife won't cut paper well nor come anywhere close to shaving but this doesn't matter as it isn't sharpening but shaping. I typically finish on a 1000 grit waterstone and then a 600 DMT rod at 22 degrees will set a perfect secondary bevel in 2-3 passes per side, that is all.

After a half a dozen or so sharpenings of the secondary bevel I rework the primary edge bevel to remove it. This is again done quickly because it doesn't have to be accurate or precise. I just use a very coarse hone, and then finish on the 1000. This is just a couple of minutes work at the most. Sprinkle a little lapping compound on the coarse hone if you neglected to do it in awhile and the secondary bevel is large.

This method holds even for very high end steels. I typically use very hard and very abrasion resistant steels, even more so than 440V, and much harder than what Spyderco typically runs. Spydercos hardening of 440V does make v-rod honing trickier as it is soft and thus rolls easily under the high pressure of the rods (low contact area). This is why it responds so well to convex shaping, it has much more support.

As for the origional question, use a decent serration pattern like from Spyderco, Mission etc. .

-Cliff
 
MDK MIRAGE ceramics - toothy edge, retains edge far longer than steel.

Check this out: Daniel Branagan - Supersteel coatings. 1 micron thick.

"Branagan's coating is one of the hardest metallic materials yet made, tougher than the hardest chrome/tungsten carbide alloy, the industry's most durable coating--until now. Put to the test last year, the superhard coating was applied to plates on a 20-ton mining rock-crusher and reduced jagged boulders to pebbles for 48 hours before wearing out. Any other coating would have lasted just one hour."
-Forbes Magazine Dec '02

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2002/1223/284.html
 
for the fellow who can't sharpen a blade well or doesn't want to.
It's called an Olf knife. The blades are segmented and break off when you want a fresh edge. For cardboard you can't beat them. I suspect that the edge loss is not a big problem when carving hardwood since a properly sharpened and heat-treated blade will not dull before your hand is blistered and bloody. But cardboard does do a number on an edge quickly.
 
Yep, CPM 420V, now known as CPM S90V. Stuff holds an edge forever under low impact cutting. Not exactly what I would recommend to someone who is frustrated with sharpening already though. Once this stuff gets dull, it is a job to bring it back. Diamond abrasives pretty much required.
 
Just buy a half dozen Benchmades with D2 steel. Use one until you dull it, which should take a good while as D2 holds an edge very well, then send it back to them to be sharpened. Carry another while it is out.

With a half dozen of them you'll never be without a knife and with their lifetime sharpening you'll never have to learn to do it yourself.
 
If you're that lazy that you don't want to sharpen your own knives, most production manufacturers would do it for you for a small price. The question is whether you want to be parted with your beloved knife for at least 2 weeks.
I sent in the Spyderco Native for sharpening because my friends somehow manage to screw up the edge quite bad (I think they're trying to cut those sheet roof shingles) and I just don't have the patience and time to put the edge back on it. Besides it did have a lock problem.
Sharpening is fun once you get the hang of it. It takes practice.
 
Pick your favorite model from Spyderco, then buy two of 'em. (You might try the Military plain-edged model in 440V. I hear great things about that steel's edge keeping.) When one of the knives is dull, mail it back to the company for their complimentary sharpening and get busy dulling the other. Their web site says you "can return your knife to Spyderco's corporate headquarters for complimentary sharpening for as long as you own it."

The cheaper option, of course, is to just learn how to sharpen with their 204 Sharpmaker.
 
Why not just buy these:

Superknife
or
Tigersharp

They will never need sharpened, just keep buying replacement blades.

Obviously there is a market for people with no desire to learn how to sharpen a blade.
 
I had expected you to get some more direct replies to your question. My first suggestions would have been some of the tool steels. Hard to come by is Vascowear, but really an edge holder. A little easier to find is M2 tool steel. This has an excellent combination of edge holding with some degree of toughness. Next down the tool steel list would be D2. Any of the above will stay sharp many times longer than the other steels that you have used. If you want an alloy that holds an edge almost as well, but is a bit tougher try 52100. If you are willing to pay serious money try INFI. If you want a stainless steel then I would look at BG42 or CPM S90V. The BG42 is tougher while the S90V will hold an edge longer. Of course S30V is a reasonable in between.

Here are some links to some comparisons:

http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/edge.htm
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/edge_testing.html

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/edge_testing_II.html
 
The thing you need to keep in mind is that the longer a knife will hold an edge the harder it is to put the edge back on ;)
 
Originally posted by MelancholyMutt
Ah... The steel you're talking about...

It's forged in the fires of the heavens and quenched in the waters of the Fountain of Youth. The ore was retrieved from the bottom of the Loch Ness lake and hammered into shape by Bigfoot and the sheath was made by the abominable snowman from leather of Unicorns. The knife can be purchased retail in a shop run by asian girls with large breasts...

But seriously, You're asking for way too much... drop your standards a bit and perhaps we can help.
Click to expand...

"retrieved from the bottom of the Loch Ness lake" at the full moon on winter solstice by virgin pearl divers...
 
CPM S90V and 10V have the greatest wear resistance. For a hard use knife though, CPM S30V and 3V combine very good wear resistance with much greater toughness.
S30V at HRC 61 takes an incredibly sharp edge and holds it well. I use a DMT Fine diamond hone to set the edge and a surgical black Arkansas stone to finish-it doesn't take very long, but I tune it up frequently. (see below)
 
Go to www.dunnknives.com and take a look at their S60V knives. These knives will take and hold a very good edge. You will need diamond stones if you don't want to spend a large amount of time sharpening though. I have one and it will hold an edge as good or better than a custom S90V that I have. I have one of the new Buck/Mayo 172 in S30V @ 59.5-60, by Paul Bos, that will take an incredible edge and hold it pretty close to the S60V. The Buck/Mayo sharpens a lot easier using diamond stones also.
 
Boker Infinity has a ceramic blade, which has an RC of around 90 if my memory serves me correctly.

Boker USA Website for Infinity

89.jpg


Don't expect the kind of construction you'd see out of a comparably priced steel folder, as what you are paying for is the Kyocera blade.

Kyocera recently released some upgraded ceramic knives that are supposed to be tougher. I haven't received my yet to test. My Infinity definitely was fragile.

kc200n.jpg
 
Well it truly makes a HUGE difference as to what you cut, one slice against a glass plate at dinner and you can kiss that Razor edge adios for about any knife where the edge comes in contact with the plate. But today I sliced up 4 boxes with my Kershaw Leek folder, inexpensive down and dirty folder that I use at work when I don't want to muck up my other knives, slicing them by cutting off all the side and top flaps, the knife, just tried it, still shaves hair easily off my arm! Kept its egdge quite well, I figured that it would have dulled it down some but it's still hanging in there.

As others have ribbed you jokingly about learning how to sharpen, I would put the challenge to you to give it your best effort, get a sharpening stone, mount it into a block of wood so it is held fixed and what I do is to hold the knife with my right hand, and the back of the blade with my left hand, the left hand guides the knife so it doesn't wobble up or down since I can FEEL the blade as I push it across the stones and then draw it back towards me, takes some time to master, use some of your lesser knives or kitchen knives to practice on but get the hang of maintaining that angle is KEY, the spyderco sharpmaker is good but it does help to get the feel of free hand sharpening.

Good luck on your search, I've also heard tell that CPM420V is about the toughest blade on earth so you may want to start there?

G2
 
I think that you should give some sort of carbon steel a try. They are easy to resharpen,even for someone not so skilled.Just as long as you are not in diving hobbies or likes to go sea fishing,they will do well.I was thinking of salt,which is among the toughest element for steels. Carbon steels ar also almost always cheaper than stainless steel.Maybe a "semi stainless" steel like D2 will be just the right stuff for you.My Cold Steel Masterhunter has a thin flat grind blade and is made of Carbon V steel. It is easy to resharpen on just soft Arkansas stones,and can without so mouch effort been braught to razor sharpness.Many opinions and advices on this forums...hope you will find a good tip!!

Manowar
 
I agree with trying carbon steel, a super steel will only make it harder to sharpen, if you get a sheepfoot or warncliff blade it might be easier to keep sharp because you won´t have to deal with a belly or recurve.

There´s so much information on sharpening that I don´t want to say too much, but what I recommend is to jig the hone fixed at an angle (as holding it in a vise or on an inclined plane) and keep the blade horizontal as you draw it across, you can measure the angle on the jig with a protractor to get what you want and it´s intuitively easy to keep the blade horizontal, so the correct angle is maintained.
 
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