I'm new here...why does every fixed blade knife have to be a star at batoning?

[evergreensSequoiaseucalyptusandOaks]

~ Removed

 

[stabman]

I really just don't see the point in batoning at all. You are essentially just taking a log and making small branches out of it. I have never had a problem collecting braches to get a fire going and then putting the whole log on it. it is a waste of time, effort and wear on your knife.

There were no dry branches to be found that day:

My leather jacket was soaked for days, and had to be completely reconditioned so it wouldn't crack.

The surrounding county flooded...of course, that is why we went out there, to see how fire would go when a flood level rain was happening.

 

[dogstar]

The main advantages of using a baton are
1) Using the mass of the baton to augment the mass of the cutting tool, so a knife can punch above its weight
2) Added precision for cuts, like using a drift pin and hammer

Some of us see the application of the above, others cannot. Oh well, that's life.

 

[vjb.knife]

I have knives that are certainly capable of batoning CS Trailmasters, TOPS El Chete, etc., etc.. I just have never needed to do it to startand maintain a fire in any weather conditions, wet cold or whatever.

 

[Lyndino]

I usually take 2 knives and a hatchet when we car camp.
A larger thicker blade for making kindling. I'm 100% confident my kids can help make kindling with a knife / baton combo over swinging a hatchet.
If it's a hike / multi day trek then it's 2 knives, each with dedicated tasks. Pretty much the dedicated chopper can double as a food prep if something happens to the smaller more universal blade.
Just how I roll.

 

[calm]

What else would you use any fixed blade for, apart from batoning:
I sometimes see fixed blades in people's kitchens and wonder how they can baton in there without damaging the tiles

 

[CDS]

It seems like batoning is the standard by which all fixed blade knives are judged by. Why is that? I use a axe or hatchet for that. It seems that a lot of knife nuts are wanna be survivalists just like many guns nut seem to be wanna be "operators".

I do get tired of seeing all the videos of people who baton with every knife they own. I definitely feel that for small kindling that it is 10 times safer to baton with a proper fixed blade than swing my Gransfors Bruks Hatchet near my hands!

 

[GPyro]

I do get tired of seeing all the videos of people who baton with every knife they own. I definitely feel that for small kindling that it is 10 times safer to baton with a proper fixed blade than swing my Gransfors Bruks Hatchet near my hands!

I agree.

Back in 2019 there was a guy wilderness camping and cut his femoral artery.
They found him dead, and figured he severed it splitting wood.

The coroner said he probably died within 10 minutes of the injury.

The tourniquet he had on wasn't enough to save him.

Rescuer's went out looking for him in a major rainstorm after his wife reported him overdue......

Yeah.
I haven't used a hatchet or axe to spit kindling since.

 

[Alone]

I agree.

Back in 2019 there was a guy wilderness camping and cut his femoral artery.
They found him dead, and figured he severed it splitting wood.

The coroner said he probably died within 10 minutes of the injury.

The tourniquet he had on wasn't enough to save him.

Rescuer's went out looking for him in a major rainstorm after his wife reported him overdue......

Yeah.
I haven't used a hatchet or axe to spit kindling since.

There was a whole thread about this in the ax section, with many expressing the same views as you and CDS .

Well apparently, after that thread, one gentleman didn't believe how possible it was to maim yourself with a camp hatchet/Sportsman's axe. So, he started another thread asking how many folks had actually injured themselves with a hatchet/axe/'hawk, and the stories began to pour in.


I generally view these "Why baton?" threads as a weak sauce attempt at trolling. However, if there is a positive thing, it does open folks' eyes to other tools/options/skillsets. And, as you mentioned a few days back (*At least, I believe it was you), I'm here for the edged tool party, and actually like hearing about other folks' tools and skillsets.

 

[ferider]

There were no dry branches to be found that day:

My leather jacket was soaked for days, and had to be completely reconditioned so it wouldn't crack.

The surrounding county flooded...of course, that is why we went out there, to see how fire would go when a flood level rain was happening.

I think you need a different jacket.

 

[stabman]

I think you need a different jacket.

I need lots of things...problem is they cost money.

 

[Riz!]

What else would you use any fixed blade for, apart from batoning:
I sometimes see fixed blades in people's kitchens and wonder how they can baton in there without damaging the tiles

I BATON SWEET POTATOES AND LARGE CARROTS ALL THE TIME.

HAHAHAHA!

 

[dogstar]

Ahh, the "axes are too dangerous" crowd finally make their entrance. I'm impressed it took 8 pages to manifest. I defended batoning, now I will speak up for axes, hatchets, and hawks.

Having mass concentrated at the tip of the tool is what makes them so effective. That also makes them 1) easier to miss with, 2) harder to re-direct once they are in motion. The combination of 1 and 2 means that glancing blows have a higher potential to do bodily harm. Anticipating a follow-through or glancing blow, and positioning your body relative to the piece of wood, are mostly what you need to use a small ax safely. Fatigue, distractions, and carelessness means that even experienced ax users might have an accident.

However, the above can happen with any edged tool that you swing. Here is the thread about ax injuries: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...mselves-with-an-axe-hatchet-tomahawk.1907032/ There are stories of people hitting themselves with machetes, too. Any tool can hurt you if you don't understand the dangers and use it with care.

I'm not sure why people need to denigrate a method that they do not practice. That seems to be the trend here, and out in the world. There is no rule that says you can't baton an ax if you don't feel safe swinging it. I do it all the time. Most of the things you do with a knife, you can do with an ax, and vice versa. If you can't make kindling with an ax without worrying about losing your fingers, that just means you have more learning to do.

Peace out, I'm sure we'll have this conversation again

 

[Arathol]

Ahh, the "axes are too dangerous" crowd finally make their entrance. I'm impressed it took 8 pages to manifest. I defended batoning, now I will speak up for axes, hatchets, and hawks.

LOL....An axe, like any other cutting tool, is only as dangerous as the fool who is mis-using it. Use it right and you'll be fine. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.....
You can't reasonably expect to split a 2" round into kindling by swinging at it with an axe. Thats just asking to get hurt. If you are going to use a tool, learn how to use it properly.....Even my 10 year grandson has that part figured out.....

 

[bigeard09]

It seems like batoning is the standard by which all fixed blade knives are judged by. Why is that? I use a axe or hatchet for that. It seems that a lot of knife nuts are wanna be survivalists just like many guns nut seem to be wanna be "operators".

I think there are a number of different answers to your question . I actually agree with your comment as to why are knives judged by how well they can or cannot Batton ! Many years ago when first learning the skills of survival bushcraft I was taught how to batton with a reasonable strong knife (preferably full tang) especially when I was teaching survival skills later in life I would take a Bahco Lapland saw or a small hatchet or parang to demonstrate alternative methods of chopping , cutting , battoning etc . I have usually found that there is enough smaller pieces of wood lying around to get your initial fire started together with a small amount of tinder . During my time with the Forces we never really practiced starting fires as it was against SOPs to eat hot food , smoke or give your position away by building a small fire , we adhered to what was commonly called cold / hard routine .

 

[Arathol]

It seems like batoning is the standard by which all fixed blade knives are judged by. Why is that?

Youtube.......no other valid reason other than youtube view count....Smash it and they will come.....

 

[GPyro]

I work in a dangerous environment.
Looking for a safer way to go home intact becomes second nature.
I've been on job sites where people got maimed, or didn't go home at all.
Usually it was because of something they failed to do safely.

There's lots of ways to do things.
Like wearing safety glasses when splitting wood.......

I refuse to work with anyone that doesn't take safety seriously.
Or hunt with them, or boat with them, etc.

There's always that guy that thinks it will never happen to him.
Being proactive is the smartest way to prevent an injury.

Peace out.
✌

 

[vjb.knife]

I agree.

Back in 2019 there was a guy wilderness camping and cut his femoral artery.
They found him dead, and figured he severed it splitting wood.

The coroner said he probably died within 10 minutes of the injury.

The tourniquet he had on wasn't enough to save him.

Rescuer's went out looking for him in a major rainstorm after his wife reported him overdue......

Yeah.
I haven't used a hatchet or axe to spit kindling since.

I have taught countless Boy Scouts how to safely use hatchets, axes, saws and knives in the wilderness and not one of them in close to 20 years of campouts cut themselves with a hatchet, axe or saw. And the only cuts with pocket knives were not serious at all. I have seen worse injuries with fish hooks. If 12 year olds can do it safely then .......

 

[The Grendels]

I think there are a number of different answers to your question . I actually agree with your comment as to why are knives judged by how well they can or cannot Batton ! Many years ago when first learning the skills of survival bushcraft I was taught how to batton with a reasonable strong knife (preferably full tang) especially when I was teaching survival skills later in life I would take a Bahco Lapland saw or a small hatchet or parang to demonstrate alternative methods of chopping , cutting , battoning etc . I have usually found that there is enough smaller pieces of wood lying around to get your initial fire started together with a small amount of tinder . During my time with the Forces we never really practiced starting fires as it was against SOPs to eat hot food , smoke or give your position away by building a small fire , we adhered to what was commonly called cold routine .

There are definitely a lot thicker fixed blades available these days and quite a few seem to be designed more for surviving the antics of the YouTubers who will abuse them than to be something someone would want to haul around all day in their pack. I like a big chopper as much as the next guy, but they're mainly going to be used for car camping. To avoid any misunderstandings with law enforcement though, just ensure you keep it in the trunk, next to your zap straps and duct tape...

It always made me shake my head, when someone would refer to another person lost in the wilderness and say they'll be fine because they were in the army. Suckling at the teat of logistics doesn't exactly lend itself to survival skills (other than winter warfare or other specialized environment training and the quality of that varies a lot). You might end up somewhere were you get some brief exposure to a survival expert. You might get a mini-course or part of a course that focuses a bit on wilderness survival, but it's just not a priority of most modern militaries in the 1st World these days (unlike sensitivity training). Bush skills that used to exist degraded a lot by the end of the Cold War. You learn how to use stoves but not start fires. I did see one sergeant take a Coleman lantern completely apart and fix as easily as if he was making coffee, while other experienced NCOs watched in amazement at this guy's mad skills. Having portable toilets available in the field means that nobody knows how to site or build a decent piss hole or shitter (complete with grunt bar). They will never know the pleasure of hearing a grunt bar snap and an officer screaming as they fall into a shitter, while they bite their own hand to keep from laughing too loud and putting a bull's eye on their own back.

Camping, hiking, and the skills my father taught me helped me a lot more in the bush than the military ever did. What the military gives you is the ability to react better in a crisis (hopefully), the drive to see your way out of it (provided you weren't one of the slack and idle), and the need to stay hydrated (should my piss be black?). A lot of people are getting hurt a lot playing with sharp and pointy things, either because our electronic devises have given us the attention span of a squirrel or our lives lend themselves to less tactile experiences with tools. What a lot of people today call bushcraft is what a lot of people just called camping, where camp skills varied wildly from person to person. If you're an office worker who doesn't have any experiences with using an axe, waiting until you're in the great outdoors and far from the trailhead might not be in your best interest. Watching videos about safe tool use is great, but not having any experience before hitting the wilderness can have consequences when you're tired from being in the harness of a backpack all day and you start making dumb mistakes. Batoning with an axe is actually easy, because you have the weight of the hatchet or axe to work with, so you don't need to use a mallet.

 

[A.L.]