"I'm not responsible once the package leaves my hands"

Not everyone uses PayPal. I refuse to use them due to their anti gun crap.

Also, if you don't buy insurance....I'm not going to be responsible for what the shipper did.

So yes, when I sell....I give the option of insuring it, but if the buyer wants to risk it, I'm being honest. Their choice, shrug.

Ditching PayPal also has some other ancillary benefits, such as not having someone else dictate terms of my sale. But my main reason is that they are anti gun, and for that reason, I won't buy from people who only accept that form of Payment. Has kept me from many a sale on BF.
 
wtlj said:
Couldn't have said it better myself! A few members that specifically list this insane statement in sales threads come to mind! They couldn't be more mistaken....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I thank the above gentleman for saving me from the same mistake.
 
Dddrees said:
Absolutely

I figure there are so many things that can possibly go wrong, but if I insure them and require signature receipt there's a much better chance there won't be any issues. But if the package does for some reason get lost I've taken all the possible precautions I can take and neither the buyer nor I will be out of any money. Also as the seller I feel that I have a lot more protection by going this route if the buyer makes a claim against me as well.
Click to expand...

Insurance and getting signature don't make it bullet proof, but it certainly covers some of the issues. When you buy a knife from me you will get your knife or your money back(full disclosure this does not hold totally true on international sales. If I do them at all they do have to make some allowances if I can't insure and track)
 
Don't the Exchange sale rules say that the SELLER is responsible for getting the item to the buyer? I remember reading that in another thread.
 
Sellers are responsible for getting items to buyers. Personal beliefs and preferences don’t supersede BF’s and PayPal’s shipping polices no matter how much some declare otherwise.

I've received packages with difficult to decipher handwriting where 9's and S's looked like 8's and street designations were left off the address. So yea, the seller sent off a package that wasn't properly addressed and/or difficult to read, which can cause problems. That's exactly why the cop-out “Once it leaves my hands I’m no longer responsible” is meaningless.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
I'd be interested to hear how PP actually handled the case. You are making a separate agreement between the parties, and I don't know if PP would honor that or revert to their policy. I would like to hear how a case turned out. The insurance is a different matter. It is for the seller and pay them or not the seller is still on the hook.
Personally I skip these sales. They just signal avoid to me.
Of course if the buyer in this situation was totally honest, they would abide by what they agreed to with the seller and never file a PP claim. That is usually how it goes with international buyers that agree to such statements.
Click to expand...

Using PayPal implies agreeing to their terms, like it or not. Terms of sale posted in the thread are not binding, and PayPal will side with the buyer if he/she doesn't get the package - that's why its called "buyer protection".
 
I personally have a very simple philosophy when it comes to selling anything. "if your not happy, I'm not happy". Simple, straightforward no if ands or buts. I've been a member here at BF for over 10 years. I've bought and sold lots and lots of knives and other things. I can truthfully say I've only got burned one time and luckily that was for a $35 knife. No big deal. I sucked it up and moved on. I do realize it's a different story when you're dealing with knives that cost hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars.

Oh, and I agree with getting burned out on all the caveats and disclaimers that are starting to show up in the for sale threads.
"must be 18" , "add 4% if this or that, "I reserve the right on who I sell too" (don't you always have that right? nobody forces you sell to anybody)

My gosh it's like a bunch of lawyers are starting to sell knives. What's next. We'll have to submit a DNA sample to qualify to buy a knife.

I do agree with the previous poster. When I read all that BS I just pass it on by and buy from a less paranoid individual.

Just my 2 cents guy. I'll get off my soapbox now.:D

Vr

Mark T.
 
choombak said:
Using PayPal implies agreeing to their terms, like it or not. Terms of sale posted in the thread are not binding, and PayPal will side with the buyer if he/she doesn't get the package - that's why its called "buyer protection".
Click to expand...

Are you a lawyer?-just trying to determine if there are any credentials behind your opinion, not disputing the opinion itself which I think most likely is valid.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Are you a lawyer?-just trying to determine if there are any credentials behind your opinion, not disputing the opinion itself which I think most likely is valid.
Click to expand...
No. However, it doesn't require a lawyer to understand and interpret English. The starting paragraph of PayPal agreement states:

This Agreement is a contract between you and PayPal and governs your use of all PayPal Services. Using the PayPal Services means that you must accept all of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement and the agreements on the *Legal Agreements* page including the Privacy Policy, the Acceptable Use Policy and the Electronic Communications Delivery Policy. You should read all of these terms carefully.

Now when a dispute reaches PayPal, this policy applies (in addition to, say, my own made up rules of sale on this forum). I don't think PayPal will honor any of my rules in the resolution process, so my stating "once out of my hands...blah...blah..." makes no difference to the outcome of the resolution process.
 
Corytr said:
You only need signature receipt if the value is over $750, including shipping and taxes.
Click to expand...

It's 500 here . I've passed on a few knives myself because of the seller saying it's out if their hands once it leaves .

One reason I take pics of my knives I sell as I package them and then the box once packaged . Insurance is for my benefit and no way is the seller responsible for my insurance to protect me.

Now if a knife gets damaged in transit as a seller I would contact the post office on my end again insurance is for me not the buyer. If its damaged from know fault of my own it's still on me because buyer is out his money . It's my responsibility to contact the post office about insurance etc.

A seller can say what they want but if an item is damaged once it leaves their possession it's still not as described via rules for paypal and still the sellers responsibility to make it right . You make it right with the buyer then go after your insurance claim with the post office.
 
choombak said:
No. However, it doesn't require a lawyer to understand and interpret English. The starting paragraph of PayPal agreement states:

This Agreement is a contract between you and PayPal and governs your use of all PayPal Services. Using the PayPal Services means that you must accept all of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement and the agreements on the *Legal Agreements* page including the Privacy Policy, the Acceptable Use Policy and the Electronic Communications Delivery Policy. You should read all of these terms carefully.

Now when a dispute reaches PayPal, this policy applies (in addition to, say, my own made up rules of sale on this forum). I don't think PayPal will honor any of my rules in the resolution process, so my stating "once out of my hands...blah...blah..." makes no difference to the outcome of the resolution process.
Click to expand...

I agree, but my legal advice and 25 cents is worth 25 cents if you don't deduct for the bad legal advice.:)
 
The one exception I've ever had was shipping international . I didn't want to but buyer paid for everything . It was probably more of a gentleman's agreement more than a legal contract that if customs took the knife it wasn't my problem.

Again I took pics of the knife being wrapped up. Then in the packaging in the box finally all sealed up with customs paperwork . That was the one and only time I shipped international and I don't want to do it again.
 
co556guy said:
Not everyone uses PayPal. I refuse to use them due to their anti gun crap.

Also, if you don't buy insurance....I'm not going to be responsible for what the shipper did.

So yes, when I sell....I give the option of insuring it, but if the buyer wants to risk it, I'm being honest. Their choice, shrug.

Ditching PayPal also has some other ancillary benefits, such as not having someone else dictate terms of my sale. But my main reason is that they are anti gun, and for that reason, I won't buy from people who only accept that form of Payment. Has kept me from many a sale on BF.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but buyer wanting to risk not having insurance on the package heading to them does not benefit them in the slightest . Insurance is to protect the seller so if you sell something and it gets lost or damaged and you can prove value (whole other thread ) you get your money back.

Asking your buyer to pay for insurance that benefits you and you alone is not right. Unless you plan on in the case of the knife lost stolen or damaged giving the buyer the insurance money. Still it's on the seller should no way be a buyers responsibility to pay for insurance for YOU to get Your money back if something happens. Again if I'm reading it wrong my apologies.
 
Spartan00 said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but buyer wanting to risk not having insurance on the package heading to them does not benefit them in the slightest . Insurance is to protect the seller so if you sell something and it gets lost or damaged and you can prove value (whole other thread ) you get your money back.

Asking your buyer to pay for insurance that benefits you and you alone is not right. Unless you plan on in the case of the knife lost stolen or damaged giving the buyer the insurance money. Still it's on the seller should no way be a buyers responsibility to pay for insurance for YOU to get Your money back if something happens. Again if I'm reading it wrong my apologies.
Click to expand...
Makes sense.
Then it wasn't too smart of me to pay extra once to get insurance which the seller didn't offer at first.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Are you a lawyer?-just trying to determine if there are any credentials behind your opinion, not disputing the opinion itself which I think most likely is valid.
Click to expand...
Playing second fiddle here but PayPal doesn't give two blue you know what's for any additional terms you have personally added. By accepting or sending payment through PayPal you have agreed to their terms. They are the ones providing the service so there is no reason for them to acknowledge anyone else's terms. Maybe if you got some kind of prior authorization from a PayPal representative that would be different but I can tell you, without needing to be a lawyer, that won't happen.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Makes sense.
Then it wasn't too smart of me to pay extra once to get insurance which the seller didn't offer at first.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it seems that you have to schools of thought here. One where the seller believes he or she has little or no responsibility once they ship the item and the other where the seller understands that until the buyer receives the item as described the seller is still responsible.

Frankly as many have stated I would never deal with a seller who doesn't understand that they are responsible until I receive the item as described. If the seller doesn't feel any obligation to ensuring that I get what I paid for, then how can I be confident they even have the item they're advertising in the first place or its in the condition they claim its in.

If using PayPal however it is buyer friendly and you'll have some protection. However like I said I would never deal with someone who doesn't understand how to conduct business in a responsible fashion. Way to problematic in my opinion, I just have no desire to deal with people who don't take responsibility for their own actions.
 
Reminds me of the story on a forum. Guy had a fantasy to kill someone and eat them (true story now). So the man finds someone willing to do this and he pays the victims family an undisclosed amount of money , the victim flies out ,guy kills etc. Neighbors smell something and call police and they find the scene.

The man shows the cops the transactions and conversations etc. He's in prison now. Don't ask me how it reminded me of this thread but it did . Users of paypal are subject to their policies if you pay by them . If you chose to use a money order it'd be a little different but if you did it on bladeforums you'd be subject to their rules.

Not much to stand on when it comes to forum rules except a ban and a reputation ruined for all to see but yea.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
STAINLESS90 said:
Playing second fiddle here but PayPal doesn't give two blue you know what's for any additional terms you have personally added. By accepting or sending payment through PayPal you have agreed to their terms. They are the ones providing the service so there is no reason for them to acknowledge anyone else's terms. Maybe if you got some kind of prior authorization from a PayPal representative that would be different but I can tell you, without needing to be a lawyer, that won't happen.
Click to expand...
like the previous poster I think you are right as far as PP goes. Maybe if that seller took it into court there might be a remote chance with 2 conflicting agreements, but not with PP. My policy is to steer clear of anything that would need to go to either PP or court, and I will continue to steer clear of these sellers regardless of PP backing the buyer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top