Improvements the 25 made to the 21

All fine and accepted what you are saying, Justin. As I do not have a 25, I am not in a position to compare. I am just fine with the way the 21 is designed and manufactured and do not feel the need for a 25. But I appreciate everybody who owns it and enjoys it.
 
James Longstreet said:
All fine and accepted what you are saying, Justin. As I do not have a 25, I am not in a position to compare. I am just fine with the way the 21 is designed and manufactured and do not feel the need for a 25. But I appreciate everybody who owns it and enjoys it.
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You must get at least one! You have over 30 CRKs now right? If you hate it, we have a home for it here. What do you have to lose?
 
Pretty good read!!!! After reading it made me glad that at least I own a CRK lol. (It's a large 21 though lol)
 
JustinFournier said:
kidcongo wanted a debate so here it is. I made my case. I would love to hear you make a case against it!

Summary:

All things being equal, (we're not talking mammoth inlay with coated damascus blade here) If you put a Sebenza 21 in the make it better machine, a Sebenza 25 is what would come out. I can't wait to see how the Inkosi product line improves on the 25. But that is a debate for another time!
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I think CRK just listens to what consumers want, within reason. A larger pivot, thicker blade, flat grind, more robust, more tactical looking knife is a trend that many consumers want these days. It's just personal preference so the 25 is just another option. I hope the Inkosi line takes over the 25 because I think the subtle changes are for the better, and hope the 21 lives on as is. I like that the Inkosi is called something different because the 25 has never been a Sebenza to me, it's just too different. It deserves it's own name.

JustinFournier said:
I mentioned less time at the factory for washer replacements, things like that.
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Didn't a lot of people complain about the tabbed washer and how easy it is to mess up requiring send ins for replacements? IMO the tabbed washer was a step backwards in serviceability, and the Inkosi design is what it should've been all along.
 
uofaengr said:
... because the 25 has never been a Sebenza to me, it's just too different. It deserves it's own name.
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By that standard, can the same be said between the Regular and the 21? I'm sure the 21 will live on for some time, it makes up too big of a portion of sales to give up. It's the biggest seller by far.

uofaengr said:
Didn't a lot of people complain about the tabbed washer and how easy it is to mess up requiring send ins for replacements? IMO the tabbed washer was a step backwards in serviceability, and the Inkosi design is what it should've been all along.
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People messed it up, people still mess up the 21 washers when they polish them and remove too much material. When the 21 wears it requires new washers, the 25 does not.

I agree the Inkosi washer improvement is just that but we did go from inventing the wheel to landing on the moon in one step? And what does that have to do with the step up between the 21 and the 25? If the 25 is still not good enough, does that mean the 21 is even worse? The improvements made in the Inkosi, were made to the 25 which were made possible by the 25. It's an evolution.

Thanks for your input!
 
I agree. I think CRK learned from the 25 and put the changes into the Inkosi and that is their most advance knife now. I look forward to when they come out with the large Inkosi. I would expect that will be the end of the 25 unless a large Inkosi is in-between the two in size. I don't think I would ever buy a 25 unless they rolled the changes from the Inkosi back into it.
 
Driften said:
I agree. I think CRK learned from the 25 and put the changes into the Inkosi and that is their most advance knife now. I look forward to when they come out with the large Inkosi. I would expect that will be the end of the 25 unless a large Inkosi is in-between the two in size. I don't think I would ever buy a 25 unless they rolled the changes from the Inkosi back into it.
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My guess is the large Inkosi will be sized between the 25 and Inkosi now, more like a medium. It might be the best size for me. There are a couple questions left to answer in my book. How the clip will work with an inlay if it's still offset, how they will handle the grind, etc but I think it might be the best to date. If it's what I imagine, I will be buying more than 1!

For me right now, the micarta 25 can't be beat as a pocket carry do everything comfortable all day knife.

If I waited for the perfect knife to come out, I would never buy anything and would miss out on all the beauties I enjoy now. I love the improvement process (I used to do this for a living). I like comparing the 21 and the 25 and imagining how Chris was looking them over like he does in the Exquisite blade, pondering what changes to make. The smile on his face when he is at a grinding wheel in his glasses while everyone else is wearing safety goggles is priceless.
 
Interesting commentary, and thanks to all. Pretty new Reeveman here with two 21's; one 25; and two Umnum's. Do slightly prefer the 25 for daily carry for the reasons you list. But plenty of pocket time available for all not to feel unwanted.
 
Justin, I was going to take the bait and list the reasons that I think this or that about either model, but I won't. The fact you are so very passionate about your 25 speaks volumes to me about that model, and I don't want to steal that fire. It's cool that we have our favourites and are willing to spend time doing the sometimes thankless task of convincing other forum members of their merits through reviews and write-ups. It's a crazy pursuit when you really think on it, but we are all in it together here. I enjoyed your review and will ponder some of your observations next time I have my 25 in pocket. I stand firm on the clip issue, but that's a minor detail. :)
 
Great I'd finally made up my mind for a new 21 but now I'm going to do some research on 25s! Only thing is I wish they'd done the inlays differently
 
Ok Cody, I was hoping for a passionate reply. 😇

edgybat said:
Ahem. Just saying we have an American chapter if you are looking to avoid international shipping charges :D
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Thank you so much for your kind consideration. 😄 I do have a CONUS address to expedite matters myself. We wouldn't want to put our poor Sebenzas through any unnecessary suffering in customs.
 
JustinFournier said:
By that standard, can the same be said between the Regular and the 21? I'm sure the 21 will live on for some time, it makes up too big of a portion of sales to give up. It's the biggest seller by far.
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Not exactly, as the 21 is based on the Classic, which is based on the original Sebenzas. After those, Chris then came up with the regular pattern, then reintroduced the original pattern as the classic, then retired both and came out with the 21.


You wrote a good treatise on the 25, but I agree with those who prefer the 21. The 25 changed so much that it isn't a Sebenza to me. Several unique things that make a Sebbie a Sebbie are missing in the 21, and regardless of the reasons for the changes, they aren't changes I like. The Sebenza, in any of its iterations, has remained a timeless knife, and I don't view the 25 that way. It's a fine knife, but a step backwards, IMO.

But, keep on enjoying yours! I'll stick with my regulars and 21s, but they're all still CRKs. :D
 
Does the 25 deserve an asterisk?! Just kidding

I have handled several 25s and can appreciate the "upgrades" but I, too, will stick with my Lg 21 micarta Insingo.
Not enough $ to own them all :)
 
Justin, that was a great write up, enjoyed reading it. I am a big fan of the 25, to the point that I've got seven of them. I think each version of the Sebenza deserves it's rightful place in the CRK line up.
Let's not forget, the 25 is still a fairly new design, I believe it was introduced in mid 2012. Hopefully, in 20 years this thread can be reviewed and folks can see everyone's opinion on it. I'm sure the same synopsis was discussed when the regular was faded out and gave way to the 21.
I've always felt that the 25 is the best of both worlds between the 21 and Umnumzaan, a classy looking knife that's meant to be used. As much as I want to see more graphics on the 25 offered, I don't think that will ever happen. Those graphics are/should be reserved for the 21, and rightfully so. After all, I don't need a parcel of 25's that I'll never use. I've got the 21's for that. :)
 
JustinFournier said:
...All things being equal, (we're not talking mammoth inlay with coated damascus blade here) If you put a Sebenza 21 in the make it better machine, a Sebenza 25 is what would come out. I can't wait to see how the Inkosi product line improves on the 25. But that is a debate for another time!
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Not so...The 25 is more complicated, has more parts and is less user serviceable and has those horrible finger cutouts that fit some people but not most. OMG it needs locktite...I had a choice and didn't choose the new design :)
 
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