In HATE with VG10 and Elmax

U

ukknifer

Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
424
I don't care what graphs or numbers you post.
VG10 and Elmax are the worst steels (in my opinion and experience)
VG10= Hyped as superior to steels like aus8 and 154cm. I wish that spyderco (my favorite knife company + bark river) would quite using it as their main staple steel.
Elmax= does not sharpen well and does not keep initial sharpness well and I just hate it. Wish kershaw would stop using it.
I hope those two steels disparate in some junkyard or melt in some giant forge and never come back.

Why not use wonderful steels like D2, M2, BG-42, s30v, s35v, cpm154, (even aus8 is better than vg10)
 
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I find VG-10 very good & its my fave field knife stainless steel. I find it is easy to sharpen to a hair popping standard on basic gear & it holds it edge very well.

I dont find aus -8 any where near as good.
 
j man said:
I find VG-10 very good & its my fave field knife stainless steel. I find it is easy to sharpen to a hair popping standard on basic gear & it holds it edge very well.

I dont find aus -8 any where near as good.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply j man. Obviously, you are not alone in that stance. Spyderco and falkniven seem to think the same.
 
You never said what it was about VG10 you dislike.

Also, you are aware both Spyderco and Kershaw make plenty of knives in steels other than the ones you dislike. Both have already used CPM D2. Spyderco has used BG42 and both companies have used the new powder steel version CTS- B75. Both use S30V and S35vn. Kershaw has used CPM 154, the correct name for the powder version of 154cm.

They have used a lot of other steels as well. The list of steels both companies have used is more than I feel like typing.

Also, not everybody will agree with your descriptions of VG10 and Elmax. They are both pretty well respected steels but like any steel they have attributes they are good at, and others they are not the best at.


Joe
 
Wot, hate on VG-10! What is not to like (yes, it might have been useful for the discussion had you explained your statement), VG-10 I find sharpens easily to a razor sharp edge and holds it reasonably well. It zips through deer with ease in the case of the Spyderco-Moran....., now that you mentioned Spyderco.
 
I have very little experience with ELMAX. Only one knife, which dulled faster than I expected but was very easy to sharpen to hair whittling.
After I sharpened it, it sat in the safe until I traded it off.

I am always impressed by VG-10 and I have knives from Spyderco, Kershaw, and SOG. All are great performers.

For my uses, I prefer 154-CM yet many think of it as low end.
 
ukknifer said:
Thanks for the reply j man. Obviously, you are not alone in that stance. Spyderco and falkniven seem to think the same.
Click to expand...

Here's one more fan of VG-10 as how they are made by Hattori for Fällkniven!
All my FK's in VG-10 works very, very well! :thumbup:

This is the tip of my NL2 Odin, after accidentally hitting a stone.
There's a nice flat cut left in the stone!

z24m.jpg


On some of my VG-10 blades, I have had to remove the factory edge by resharpening them a few times.
After this, they have performed as expected.


Regards
Mikael
 
ukknifer said:
I don't care what graphs or numbers you post.
VG10 and Elmax are the worst steels (in my opinion and experience)
VG10= Hyped as superior to steels like aus8 and 154cm. I wish that spyderco (my favorite knife company + bark river) would quite using it as their main staple steel.
Elmax= does not sharpen well and does not keep initial sharpness well and I just hate it. Wish kershaw would stop using it.
I hope those two steels disparate in some junkyard or melt in some giant forge and never come back.

Why not use wonderful steels like D2, M2, BG-42, s30v, s35v, cpm154cm, (even aus8 is better than vg10)
Click to expand...

I must say that I disagree with Your entire post! :thumbdn:


Regards
Mikael
 
ukknifer said:
I don't care what graphs or numbers you post.
VG10 and Elmax are the worst steels (in my opinion and experience)
VG10= Hyped as superior to steels like aus8 and 154cm. I wish that spyderco (my favorite knife company + bark river) would quite using it as their main staple steel.
Elmax= does not sharpen well and does not keep initial sharpness well and I just hate it. Wish kershaw would stop using it.
I hope those two steels disparate in some junkyard or melt in some giant forge and never come back.

Why not use wonderful steels like D2, M2, BG-42, s30v, s35v, cpm154cm, (even aus8 is better than vg10)
Click to expand...

Which knives in particular are you referring to?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. There are alot of other choices out there. Alot of Spyderco's VG10 knives are also made with ZDP-189. Why not give that steel a try?
 
I have to go with Mikael's view of your entire post. I like VG-10 steel. I only have a ZT in elmax, and I have only sharpened it once so far. So, don't really have an opinion. I tend to stay away from AUS8 now, but if I really liked the knife, I would still buy it. I have a number of knives in 154 CM and one in CPM 154. I like D2. Just about every steel used in knives has it's place and tendancies.
 
I'm another fan of VG 10. This is thew first steel I was able to achieve a scary sharp hair popping edge with. It is also the easiest to bring back to hair popping of any steel I've tried. It keeps the edge for a reasonable amount of time. What's not to like? It is the baseline for me of what constitutes a decent stainless steel.

I don't have any experience with Elmax yet, so I can't speak to that, but I have been eyeing a lionsteel tispine, so I may have a knife with that soon.

To each their own, but I would like to know why you detest VG-10 so much. You didn't say.

Grizz
 
Nothing wrong with Elmax & VG-10 but personally I prefer M390 & S30V as respective substitutes.

Freedom of choice and opinion!

Personally, hate is just wasted energy!
 
elmax doesn't sharpen well? Whaaaaaaaaaa???????? Doesn't hold an edge as well? Check out the C, Cr, V and Mo....it's going to have considerably more carbides(especially the hard vanadium kind) than Aus-8 and cpm-154.

Like anything, steels are a mix of good and bad qualities. You pick the steel so that the good qualities make up for the bad in a specific task. You also have to consider the heat treat of the particular knifemaker, as that can make two knives with the same steel perform VERY differently. If you don't like the edge retention of vg10, it's likely due to a knifemaker not hardening it to the 60-61 range where it performs better there. With Co in it, it can get pretty hard and do pretty well. The high Cr also makes it excellent for the kitchen, where corrosion can kill an edge quicker than typical wear. Its excellent corrosion resistance is part of why spyderco uses it in knives that are intended to be neglected or be around water.

Elmax is just a great, balanced steel for knives. It's got increased C, Cr, and V over vg10, cpm154,and aus8. This translates to high wear resistance AND high corrosion resistance. It's got a very fine grain structure, which adds to toughness and is just generally better across the board than cpm154. It's also neat because while it has much better wear resistance than cpm154, it still grinds pretty easy. If you can't get a good edge on it, it's you. With how fine the grain structure is, it should be able to take a very fine polished edge. Elmax makes a great kitchen knife.
 
ukknifer said:
I don't care what graphs or numbers you post.
VG10 and Elmax are the worst steels (in my opinion and experience)
VG10= Hyped as superior to steels like aus8 and 154cm. I wish that spyderco (my favorite knife company + bark river) would quite using it as their main staple steel.
Elmax= does not sharpen well and does not keep initial sharpness well and I just hate it. Wish kershaw would stop using it.
I hope those two steels disparate in some junkyard or melt in some giant forge and never come back.

Why not use wonderful steels like D2, M2, BG-42, s30v, s35v, cpm154cm, (even aus8 is better than vg10)
Click to expand...

I have several Bark River knives and I can't recall ever seeing an offering in VG 10, but I could be wrong. Seems like A2 or CPM 3V could be considered as their "main steels".

My ZT in elmax holds its edge VERY well for my purposes. No complaints there. My Fallkniven S1 also performs well and strops up to a razors edge with minimal effort.

But...to each his own. Use what you like and like what you use.
 
ukknifer said:
I don't care what graphs or numbers you post.
VG10 and Elmax are the worst steels (in my opinion and experience)
VG10= Hyped as superior to steels like aus8 and 154cm. I wish that spyderco (my favorite knife company + bark river) would quite using it as their main staple steel.
Elmax= does not sharpen well and does not keep initial sharpness well and I just hate it. Wish kershaw would stop using it.
I hope those two steels disparate in some junkyard or melt in some giant forge and never come back.

Why not use wonderful steels like D2, M2, BG-42, s30v, s35v, cpm154cm, (even aus8 is better than vg10)
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have sharpening issues. VG-10 and ELMAX sharpen and perform very well compared to several of the steels you have listed. It's not always easy to understand a steel and when you don't fully test them to their limits you can be easily confused in their abilities.

You should try getting all the facts straight too.
 
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