In HATE with VG10 and Elmax

bld522 said:
Gee, I don't know. Is it ridiculous to assume that the Swedish Air Force has some metallurgists working for it? And how many other military establishments can you name that specify a knife alloy for use by a branch of their service? And is it possible that they tested VG-10 thoroughly before selecting it or do you think it's more likely that they just pulled it out of a hat? :confused:
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I can't speak on them specifically, but when governmental agencies make choices on what equipment to use there are many factors that go into it, normally there are bids, etc.... So what's best for the government might not be the actual best.

That said, I love vg 10 and realize one vg 10 knife could realistically handle everything I ask of it.
 
I love Elmax! In my experience it holds an edge just as well as S30V. I actually find it easier to sharpen in some cases! You're entitled to your opinion, but "hate" is a strong word. ;)
 
ukknifer said:
I don't care what graphs or numbers you post.
VG10 and Elmax are the worst steels (in my opinion and experience)
VG10= Hyped as superior to steels like aus8 and 154cm. I wish that spyderco (my favorite knife company + bark river) would quite using it as their main staple steel.
Elmax= does not sharpen well and does not keep initial sharpness well and I just hate it. Wish kershaw would stop using it.
I hope those two steels disparate in some junkyard or melt in some giant forge and never come back.

Why not use wonderful steels like D2, M2, BG-42, s30v, s35v, cpm154, (even aus8 is better than vg10)
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:confused:

Maybe try putting a different edge on your knives? Perhaps your secondary bevels are running too thin or thick for the work you're trying to accomplish. Hard to say without knowing what specific issues you're experiencing with these steels...

However, there are plenty of other steel options out there. Just buy those instead and your problems are solved. :thumbup:

-Brett
 
elmax very sensitive to heat treatment , if heat treated right it is very good steel .
never had problem with vg10, not my favorite but defiantly not worst .
 
goodeyesniper said:
Interesting that you lined up m390 over elmax, and s30v over vg10. Those aren't really same class comparisons.

s30v and elmax would be a better direct comparison because they are in the same class and I doubt most people would ever tell a difference between the two. Though in a blind test, I'd expect most people to pick s30v over elmax.

M390 is so far above all the other steels listed, not sure how it applies.
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I wasn't making a direct comparison in steel composition just stating substitute preferences. For instance, with Spyderco I invariably go with their S30V over VG-10 and with Zero Tolerance M390 over Elmax.

As far as I'm concerned, all four are fine stainless steels for knives.

0db5677b-82b8-4c7c-8636-c72b6d011fb3_zps09f45e0b.jpg


Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Crucible S30V, Bohler-Uddeholm M390, Takefu VG10, Bohler-Uddeholm Elmax
 
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Definitely an operator error when sharpening. I bought an edge pro a week ago and without watching or reading as much instructions, I sharpened my gso 4.1 in s90v. It was my first time and I was really careful but I was able to make it hair shaving sharp.

I have no experience with ZT's elmax. Although I've read a thread that an elmax ZT was chipped/rolled from cutting cable ties.
 
I think you all scared away the OP, it seemed more of a hit and run type of thread anyhow.
 
Hi guys. Not scared per say but too much to respond to. Here is some clarification.
I am not new to knives. I sharpen freehand on stone and on sandpaper. I always convex the edge of my knives. I have many spydercos in vg10 , enduras, caly3, big caly sprint run, junior , and many others. I have always hated vg10 and am amazed when I see people raving about it. Is it just me that fined it dull and frustrating? it dulls so quickly. Yes it will keep some working edge but I have no love for it.

Elmax is the same to me. I swear that Elmax is vg10. :D.
I have a knife in about every steel. but these two are my worst. Now, Why keep buying something you dont like? because I like spydercos and SOME Kershaws too much to not buy them because of the steel.
When I see people saying "Oh they are wonderful steels", it drives me even more crazy:mad:
 
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I'm not a big fan of VG10, but only because it lacks the wear resistance that is easy to find in the high-alloy steels. VG10 has the virtue of being easy to resharpen or keep sharp though careful maintenance, but that advantage doesn't mean as much as it used to before we had such easy access to affordable diamond stones. Still, VG10 is one of the better steels we have for knives.

Elmax is an excellent steel -- one of the toughest of the stainless steels and it is very stain resistant. Plus, it holds an edge very well.

My own sense is that most people's experience with various steels is more a function of their ability to sharpen a knife -- especially when the edge geometry presents a a not-so-obvious problem.

Give someone a VG10 edge profiled to 30 degrees inclusive and have them sharpen it on the 40-degree Sharpmaker stones and they'll think VG10 is the easiest steel in the world to sharpen. But give them an edge of 45 degrees inclusive and have they sharpen it on the 30-degree Sharpmaker stones, and they'll think VG10 is impossible to sharpen. Most people will blame the steel, not the geometry.

Likewise, give them an edge that is not even and forms a burr on only one side, leaving a nasty wire edge that most people can't even recognize, and they'll think the steel cannot hold an edge at all. Only when we develop good sharpening skills can we "read" a steel.
 
Twindog said:
I'm not a big fan of VG10, but only because it lacks the wear resistance that is easy to find in the high-alloy steels. VG10 has the virtue of being easy to resharpen or keep sharp though careful maintenance, but that advantage doesn't mean as much as it used to before we had such easy access to affordable diamond stones. Still, VG10 is one of the better steels we have for knives.

Elmax is an excellent steel -- one of the toughest of the stainless steels and it is very stain resistant. Plus, it holds an edge very well.

My own sense is that most people's experience with various steels is more a function of their ability to sharpen a knife -- especially when the edge geometry presents a a not-so-obvious problem.

Give someone a VG10 edge profiled to 30 degrees inclusive and have them sharpen it on the 40-degree Sharpmaker stones and they'll think VG10 is the easiest steel in the world to sharpen. But give them an edge of 45 degrees inclusive and have they sharpen it on the 30-degree Sharpmaker stones, and they'll think VG10 is impossible to sharpen. Most people will blame the steel, not the geometry.

Likewise, give them an edge that is not even and forms a burr on only one side, leaving a nasty wire edge that most people can't even recognize, and they'll think the steel cannot hold an edge at all. Only when we develop good sharpening skills can we "read" a steel.
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Good post! :thumbup:

There are no bad steels!
It's the way the steels are used by the maker, heat-treated and what geometry the blade has that matters.
The users sharpening skill means perhaps as much as 50% of the knife's total performance.

If a user ignore to explore sharpening, no steel will perform as it could do if sharpened right.
To find out the right geometry for a given knife, will take some time before the edge "settles".
When the edge has "settled", it doesn't need as much sharpening as when new.

This is a process that can take time, long time if the knife isn't used daily.
Even if I use a knife on a daily basis, it sometimes takes more than 6 months before it performs at its best.



Regards
Mikael
 
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I have VG-10 knives and have no complaints.
I have an early CS Master Hunter in AUS-8 .I have no complaints with that either. I wonder however -when the complaints started I was surprised But then Ive been thinking .Did the complaints start when they changed from Japanese made steel to Chinese steel ??? Can someone tell me the origin of old and new AUS-8 ??
 
ukknifer said:
Hi guys. Not scared per say but too much to respond to. Here is some clarification.
I am not new to knives. I sharpen freehand on stone and on sandpaper. I always convex the edge of my knives. I have many spydercos in vg10 , enduras, caly3, big caly sprint run, junior , and many others. I have always hated vg10 and am amazed when I see people raving about it. Is it just me that fined it dull and frustrating? it dulls so quickly. Yes it will keep some working edge but I have no love for it.

Elmax is the same to me. I swear that Elmax is vg10. :D.
I have a knife in about every steel. but these two are my worst. Now, Why keep buying something you dont like? because I like spydercos and SOME Kershaws too much to not buy them because of the steel.
When I see people saying "Oh they are wonderful steels", it drives me even more crazy:mad:
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oh, they are wonderful steels.
 
ukknifer said:
Hi guys. Not scared per say but too much to respond to. Here is some clarification.
I am not new to knives. I sharpen freehand on stone and on sandpaper. I always convex the edge of my knives. I have many spydercos in vg10 , enduras, caly3, big caly sprint run, junior , and many others. I have always hated vg10 and am amazed when I see people raving about it. Is it just me that fined it dull and frustrating? it dulls so quickly. Yes it will keep some working edge but I have no love for it.

Elmax is the same to me. I swear that Elmax is vg10. :D.
I have a knife in about every steel. but these two are my worst. Now, Why keep buying something you dont like? because I like spydercos and SOME Kershaws too much to not buy them because of the steel.
When I see people saying "Oh they are wonderful steels", it drives me even more crazy:mad:
Click to expand...

so what are you cutting that makes VG-10 and Elmax sound so bad? I love both steels; they're among my favorites.
 
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