1. Welcome to the New & Improved BladeForums. New software info here. Please report problems in Tech Support, and read existing threads before posting! - Spark
  2. I've changed the default forum style to Flat Awesome based on feedback. Don't like it? Click here to change how the forums look Feedback on this is welcome here.

in love with 5160

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by chad2, May 11, 2013.

  1. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etHzQ2-4UpM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    This is my second test on this blade , I broke the tip because I wanted to see how thin I could go on a bigger blade with this new heat treat.

    So I have been using 5160 for a couple of years now and never had these results with it, I can not get enough of this knife, I go out every day and baton, chop, carve, and cut cardboard and this blade keeps slicing paper and shaving hair with minimal stropping. I dont think I will use another steel, maybe 52100 for smaller blades.

    I will post more testing on this blade after I take it camping! :D
     
  2. Bo T

    Bo T

    Feb 12, 2011
    I watched the first 3 minutes (about my attention span). It looks like you were putting the knife through its paces. Is this a knife that you made?
    I know that a lot of makers like 5160 for chopping and batoning and such.
     
  3. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    Yes this knife was made by me.
     
  4. Jastab

    Jastab

    Jan 31, 2013
    Very cool, ive thought about using 52100 in my next batch of knives I make. But this may make me change my mind... what's the hardness at?
     
  5. redd1981

    redd1981

    250
    Oct 4, 2011
    looks like everything came together just right on that one. did you HT that yourself or send it out??
     
  6. applevalleyjoe

    applevalleyjoe

    119
    Aug 18, 2010
    5160 :thumbup:
     
  7. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    It has a 400 degree temper so about 58 to 60 hrc. But I would have to get it tested

    I have a paragon kiln so I can do my own heat treats. I have used the manufacturers suggested heat treat and did not get these results, I will never go back lol
     
  8. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    Could not agree more!
     
  9. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Great performer. Looks like you finally got your shop setup.
     
  10. me2

    me2

    Oct 11, 2003
    Can you describe the factory heat treatment and what you did different?
     
  11. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    (Manufacturer's recommended heat treat)
    Quench: 1525 degrees soak/hold for 30 mins, oil quench
    Temper: 1 to 2 times for 2 hours, 450 degrees = 57-59 hrc depending on type of oil you quench with

    (New heat treat taken from a mix of ed caffery and ed fowler)
    First off this is not how either ed heat treats there knives but this is what I have come up with talking with both of them.
    Normalize = 3: 1 day, into house freezer overnight after all three.
    Thermal cycle = 3: 1 day, into freezer over night after all three.
    Anneal = 3: 3 days, each one cools in furnace over night. no freezer
    Quench = 3: 3 days, 1545 degrees for 5 mins, oil is heated to about 160 degrees, into freezer after each quench overnight.
    Temper = 3: 3 days, 400 degrees for 2 hours, into freezer after each cycle. This temper should give you about 58-60 hrc with canola oil which is what I use, I am going to up grade to parks50 soon though.

    After the first temper I quench in cold running water to help with Ra. The 2nd and 3rd tempers I let cool in the furnace with the door partcially open, I do this to help reduce grain size.

    Everything is done in threes because steel will react to all three after that it does nothing.

    I also do not do high heat soak times because this promotes grain growth which is the exact opposite of how you want the grain to be in a knife. Larger grain means more brittle at high hardnesses and less wear resistance. The edge will chip easier also.

    If you have any other questions do not hesitate to ask. Hope this helps.
     
  12. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    Yeah kind of my wife is pregnant so we are going to be moving into a four bedroom house now lol
     
  13. applevalleyjoe

    applevalleyjoe

    119
    Aug 18, 2010
    Good explanation. Thanks.
     
  14. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    I dont care what any body says, if you do this heat treat you will NOT be disappointed!
     
  15. Ed Fowler

    Ed Fowler

    Jul 21, 2001
    Congratulations Chad! I am glad to see you testing your knives, that was an honest test and that is how we learn.
     
  16. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    hey Ed thanks, i dont mean to throw your name out there but its the truth. not like i need you to fight any of my battles or anything, because i bet you have had enough battles on this subject. for me the proof is in the pudding!

    also even though i dont have the time to make that many knives i have become addicted to testing them! more like it is an addiction! and now i have opened a whole new can of addiction with this heat treat!!!!!
     
  17. scott.livesey

    scott.livesey

    572
    Nov 10, 2011
    what is temp for normalize, thermo cycle, and anneal? what do you mean by thermo cycle, if normalize is heat to temp then cool in still air and anneal is heat to temp then slow cool.
    thanks
     
  18. me2

    me2

    Oct 11, 2003
    Can you describe whats happening during the open door cooling after tempering that reduces grain size? Or can anyone else?
     
  19. chad2

    chad2

    999
    Sep 2, 2011
    normalize 1600 degrees 5 mins air cool three times
    thermal cycle 1350 degrees 5 mins then air cool to below 900 degrees or until no red and a little longer.
    anneal 1550 degrees 5 mins furnace cool over night.

    i do 5 mins because that gives plenty of time for the blade to het up
     
  20. shigawire4sure

    shigawire4sure

    951
    Jul 16, 2007
    great peformance on that man. Is it chisel ground?
     

Share This Page