in love with 5160

C

chad2

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Sep 2, 2011
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etHzQ2-4UpM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This is my second test on this blade , I broke the tip because I wanted to see how thin I could go on a bigger blade with this new heat treat.

So I have been using 5160 for a couple of years now and never had these results with it, I can not get enough of this knife, I go out every day and baton, chop, carve, and cut cardboard and this blade keeps slicing paper and shaving hair with minimal stropping. I dont think I will use another steel, maybe 52100 for smaller blades.

I will post more testing on this blade after I take it camping! :D
 
I watched the first 3 minutes (about my attention span). It looks like you were putting the knife through its paces. Is this a knife that you made?
I know that a lot of makers like 5160 for chopping and batoning and such.
 
Bo T said:
I watched the first 3 minutes (about my attention span). It looks like you were putting the knife through its paces. Is this a knife that you made?
I know that a lot of makers like 5160 for chopping and batoning and such.
Click to expand...
Yes this knife was made by me.
 
Very cool, ive thought about using 52100 in my next batch of knives I make. But this may make me change my mind... what's the hardness at?
 
looks like everything came together just right on that one. did you HT that yourself or send it out??
 
Jastab said:
Very cool, ive thought about using 52100 in my next batch of knives I make. But this may make me change my mind... what's the hardness at?
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It has a 400 degree temper so about 58 to 60 hrc. But I would have to get it tested

redd1981 said:
looks like everything came together just right on that one. did you HT that yourself or send it out??
Click to expand...
I have a paragon kiln so I can do my own heat treats. I have used the manufacturers suggested heat treat and did not get these results, I will never go back lol
 
Can you describe the factory heat treatment and what you did different?
 
(Manufacturer's recommended heat treat)
Quench: 1525 degrees soak/hold for 30 mins, oil quench
Temper: 1 to 2 times for 2 hours, 450 degrees = 57-59 hrc depending on type of oil you quench with

(New heat treat taken from a mix of ed caffery and ed fowler)
First off this is not how either ed heat treats there knives but this is what I have come up with talking with both of them.
Normalize = 3: 1 day, into house freezer overnight after all three.
Thermal cycle = 3: 1 day, into freezer over night after all three.
Anneal = 3: 3 days, each one cools in furnace over night. no freezer
Quench = 3: 3 days, 1545 degrees for 5 mins, oil is heated to about 160 degrees, into freezer after each quench overnight.
Temper = 3: 3 days, 400 degrees for 2 hours, into freezer after each cycle. This temper should give you about 58-60 hrc with canola oil which is what I use, I am going to up grade to parks50 soon though.

After the first temper I quench in cold running water to help with Ra. The 2nd and 3rd tempers I let cool in the furnace with the door partcially open, I do this to help reduce grain size.

Everything is done in threes because steel will react to all three after that it does nothing.

I also do not do high heat soak times because this promotes grain growth which is the exact opposite of how you want the grain to be in a knife. Larger grain means more brittle at high hardnesses and less wear resistance. The edge will chip easier also.

If you have any other questions do not hesitate to ask. Hope this helps.
 
chad2 said:
(Manufacturer's recommended heat treat)
Quench: 1525 degrees soak/hold for 30 mins, oil quench
Temper: 1 to 2 times for 2 hours, 450 degrees = 57-59 hrc depending on type of oil you quench with

(New heat treat taken from a mix of ed caffery and ed fowler)
First off this is not how either ed heat treats there knives but this is what I have come up with talking with both of them.
Normalize = 3: 1 day, into house freezer overnight after all three.
Thermal cycle = 3: 1 day, into freezer over night after all three.
Anneal = 3: 3 days, each one cools in furnace over night. no freezer
Quench = 3: 3 days, 1545 degrees for 5 mins, oil is heated to about 160 degrees, into freezer after each quench overnight.
Temper = 3: 3 days, 400 degrees for 2 hours, into freezer after each cycle. This temper should give you about 58-60 hrc with canola oil which is what I use, I am going to up grade to parks50 soon though.

After the first temper I quench in cold running water to help with Ra. The 2nd and 3rd tempers I let cool in the furnace with the door partcially open, I do this to help reduce grain size.

Everything is done in threes because steel will react to all three after that it does nothing.

I also do not do high heat soak times because this promotes grain growth which is the exact opposite of how you want the grain to be in a knife. Larger grain means more brittle at high hardnesses and less wear resistance. The edge will chip easier also.

If you have any other questions do not hesitate to ask. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Good explanation. Thanks.
 
Congratulations Chad! I am glad to see you testing your knives, that was an honest test and that is how we learn.
 
Ed Fowler said:
Congratulations Chad! I am glad to see you testing your knives, that was an honest test and that is how we learn.
Click to expand...

hey Ed thanks, i dont mean to throw your name out there but its the truth. not like i need you to fight any of my battles or anything, because i bet you have had enough battles on this subject. for me the proof is in the pudding!

also even though i dont have the time to make that many knives i have become addicted to testing them! more like it is an addiction! and now i have opened a whole new can of addiction with this heat treat!!!!!
 
what is temp for normalize, thermo cycle, and anneal? what do you mean by thermo cycle, if normalize is heat to temp then cool in still air and anneal is heat to temp then slow cool.
thanks
 
Can you describe whats happening during the open door cooling after tempering that reduces grain size? Or can anyone else?
 
scott.livesey said:
what is temp for normalize, thermo cycle, and anneal? what do you mean by thermo cycle, if normalize is heat to temp then cool in still air and anneal is heat to temp then slow cool.
thanks
Click to expand...

normalize 1600 degrees 5 mins air cool three times
thermal cycle 1350 degrees 5 mins then air cool to below 900 degrees or until no red and a little longer.
anneal 1550 degrees 5 mins furnace cool over night.

i do 5 mins because that gives plenty of time for the blade to het up
 
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