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Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Chapp, May 1, 2019.
Do you always call people fools when they dont agree to what you said or referenced to?
no, just when they argue with the obvious
Did you actually read what you googled on the Internet? For christ sake, if you are referencing sth, at least give a reputable source of some facts. People were having a good discussion on a knife subject until you jumped in with some political crap.
Except for some really affordable models with really thin grinds like opinels, they seem to have reached a really good compromise despite not having the best possible heat treat.
Questions about China's "labor policies" are nothing new and certainly not the product of some fake news fringe website. For years, some of us have joked about things like "Peoples Liberation Army Re-education Camp and Tennis Shoe Factory # 238." Pretty much common knowledge. That's before we discuss their propensity to steal everyone' intellectual property. I was particalry amused by the story about the 8 or so Apple Stores on the main shopping street of Shanghai and not a single one of them being a real Apple Store. YMMV.
Opinel seems to be good about choosing their "cheap" steels like that XC90 and 12C27. The XC90 looks like might be somewhere between 1084 and 1095. The higher range manganese version is probably a bit deeper hardening than 1095 and it has a bit of silicon with might make it a little tougher. That is pretty much all it has.
Political? Really? Lol. Keep on living in a bubble. Good luck.
Any knife made in China that costs more than 30 dollars.
Late to this discussion but I'm going to say Strider knives. I Fell into the over-hyped nonsense and bought two of them. ( at different times) Both knives were a joke - lock-up issues on both and the fit and finish sucked.
Yup same crappy junk.
There's also this
Along with a whole lot of other horrible horrible things.
Was it before the restructuring? I've purchased a couple this year and they are great.
In my opinion, we need inflammotary talk about knives. First because it can be a very expensive hobby, second because they're sharp tools that can hurt you. We shouldn't fear to call out bullshit when see it. The ZT lock failure on many of their knives should have been way more discussed than it was, especially when the problem still hasn't be sorted out. Instead, I still see people recommanding them as your 200$ Sebenza, mostly because we didn't call out the bullshit about this brand enough.
I always see people going full "to each their own", but when we talk about ~100/200$+ tools, we need to take sharp turns about what companies value their customers and what companies doesn't, because that is less of an opinion. We need to be able to discuss without the fear of hurting fanboys of said brands/companies. Most users of this forum don't feel the absolute need to identify themselves by the brand/tool they go by. Only a small - toxic - minority does.
I've yet to see a single person explain me how Benchmade was justified for exemple. The new prices for their knives barely make sens, while the previous price-point was far more acceptable, even if still overpriced. The new price-point is straight bullshit and the QC problems make it even worse. According to your mindset, I should just say that Benchmade hold no personal value to me and move on. According to mine, I should still be able to comment in a broader ways about their practices, prices, QC problems and how some of their knives smell like big rip-off (551 griptilian 154cm in mind).
Knives are the best man-made tools, we shouldn't be afraid of except the best of the best, when it comes to companies practices. Usage of abrasive talk should be mandatory.
MAP pricing makes some brands overpriced; not sure if its a rip off or not, but its higher priced than it should be and ill never pay map price for any knife....
So you want to stir the pot among our fellow enthusiasts because you feel it's your duty to educate the masses to these injustices? My point isn't to water it down the issue. If you have a real beef with a knife or brand, make a thread specifically. But threads worded like this are open to interpretation and always end up pissing matches. "$400 for a frame lock? Rip off!" "Spending over $50 on a knife? That's a rip off!" etc.
Almost no one here that has spent any length of time on these boards is making uneducated decisions about what they are buying. Pros, cons, warranties, customer service, build quality, etc are all pretty well known. For some, the sum total of what they like about a knife outweighs, to them, features you do not like/would not pay for. That does not make it a rip off.
I do not like the Grip. I'm not a BM fan. They don't speak to me. Some love them and are happy to pay the price. Sometimes thats based on previous quality and not current quality. If BM continues to put out subpar products at inflated prices, it will come back on them. They aren't ripping anyone off. You are getting exactly what they say you are getting. It's not like you buy a Grip and a Gerber Ripstop shows up in the box. They are putting out a poor product which though returns, reviews, and slumping sales will be corrected or they will cease to be in business.
Also there is like a dozen page thread talking about ZT's lock issues. It went a little something like this:
"My locks failed and this concerns me."
"Well none of my locks have failed. I have 2 dozen of them, so I call BS."
"Well, but if I tap it on a roll of tape it will slip the lock."
"Why so that! Spine whacks are useless 'tests'! Hold the knife like a man!"
"But what if, like, I need to hold the knife at a weird angle and it bumps closed on my fingers?"
Etc etc etc etc. I posted my personal concerns with the knives in there. I came to the conclusion that even though they can fail, how I use my knives still makes them worth owning and carrying. I've bought two since that thread. I still find them a good value of fit and finish for $200. I wish the frame lock tolerances were a little better (kinda ironic, I know), but for an off the shelf premium quality knife they aren't bad.
So lemme ask this, what's the end game for this thread? After everyone gets snarky or smug or pounds on the table about what's fair/right/overpriced/patriotic/etc, what conclusion do we have? What empirical and quantifiable measurements will we as a knife-using community be left with? Once we route out all the dirty tricksters, flimflam artists, snake oil salesmen hocking their dangerous wears to we, the ill informed, how does this thread end? Is there a do-not-buy list? An equation that mathematically proves rip-offitude?
My guess? It ends locked with some hurt feelings with nothing productive coming out of it. I'm not trying to be contrarian here. I just want to know how this makes "us" better.
Not arguing. Just wishing that US labor practices were just.
Consumer driven industrial capitalism requires there to both a Manchester and behind that, a Mississippi.
They don't discuss this in classical economics even in the upper level classes.
CRK's are NOT overpriced, if you take a look at the attention going into making these knives you will understand. It's actually kind of crazy to see all the manual labour going in to them and all the details they attend to.
The combination of quality, low profile pocket footprint, ergos, the Sebenza clip, bladesize, materials, design/aesthetics and service to these knives are just stellar.
In light of all these features, the Sebenza still is the best production pocket knife out there IMHO.
Either largo or small, I prefer the small with my medium hands.
I think US labor practices are more just than just about any other place on the planet.
The difference there is you are talking about prisoners that actually committed serious crimes, not a political prisoner that just spoke out against the government and was jailed. I actually think that it is great to make prisoners work and earn a small amount of money. Better than them working the weight pile all day long and coming out 5 times stronger than their guards.
But at the end of the day the China topic is that we all buy stuff made in China. It is impossible not to. But it should not be by choice, but necessity. If I have a choice, I am going to purchase my product from an american maker or even European/Japanese maker. Of course I would buy from a Chinese custom maker to help his small business out. But not from any factory that likely produces ripoffs of other peoples IP.
It doesn't at all. Just a bash thread where people drop their complaints with absolutely no resolution of any problems.
"Inflammatory" talk is the exact opposite of what this community needs on the subject of actual concerns. I'm not sure the op knows the definition of the word.
The next time a M*** D** sales thread shows up in the exchange, a potential buyer can reference this thread and many others before becoming the full circle, middle-aged (ain't no youngsters searching for MD these days, TG) mall ninja? Potential benefit of the thread. Most of us eventually make informed purchases; marketing can be a you know what.
And no, I'm not judging. Many years before joining bladeforums and learnin the tiny bit I've grasped from guys like Larrin and ShannonSteelLabs, I believed in the $10k+ bainite samurai sword -- "Hands down the highest performance sword blade in the world." 'That's hands down, folks. Put your hands down, the comment section is closed'. Cus, marketing. Not a pricetag reflecting the intrinsic value in metallurgy, craftsmanship and performance. Rather snake oil and BS.
2019 and a LOT of people still believe CS makes the strongest, sharpest knives in the world. While their value rarely--however recently--comes into question, CS purchases are often the result of misinformed consumers being told they're investing in the absolute pinnacle.
Yes the OP could've been more eloquent. Are these threads ingenuine and worthless? I can think of less productive subforums and threads, tbh.
I feel many modern knives are over priced for what you get in general. I just want a knife to work for the tasks I usually use them for and for the most part a $350-$500 modern simply isn't necessary. In addition, their blades tend to be overly thick from my point of view.
When I first considered this question, my immediate thought was a Frost slip joint. But I know enough about knives that a pretty handle does not sway me toward buying one any more regardless of the price. So, they may typically be "gas station knives", but I don't consider them a "ripoff".