Inclusive the hard way

[cncpro11]

Perhaps you should both look up a definition yourselves. Allow me to help: http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...nxHML9W79CcGrdYHLyyx_rg&bvm=bv.87920726,d.dGY
Included angle From Latin: includere "to shut in, enclose"

Definition: The angle made by two lines with a common vertex
Included angle - the angle between two given lines that meet at a point

When two lines meet at a common point (vertex) the angle between them is called the included angle. The two lines define the angle. So for example in the figure above we could refer to the angle ∠ABC as the "included angle of BA and BC".

Or we could refer to "BA and BC and their included angle".


IMO, it is perfectly valid to talk about included angle when discussing chisel grinds.

That drawing is for an equilateral triangle, two equal legs, which would make the vertex the cutting edge and the angle inclusive, or equal on both sides if a line were made perpendicular to the vertex to the opposite side.
A chisel ground edge would be more of a right triangle and not inclusive....two right triangles would make an inclusive angle though.

 

[singularity35]

That drawing is for an equilateral triangle, two equal legs, which would make the vertex the cutting edge and the angle inclusive, or equal on both sides if a line were made perpendicular to the vertex to the opposite side.
A chisel ground edge would be more of a right triangle and not inclusive....two right triangles would make an inclusive angle though.

Inlcusive obviously means a sum of two angles in this case. Are you saying 0+X=X, where the X is not a sum of two values?

 

[DAVE_M]

It would still be inclusive. Zero degrees on one side plus whatever bevel angle on the bevel side is still inclusive. Unless it's just a two dimensional knife, then all you'd have is one side.

When talking about bevel angles, inclusive means the sum of the bevel angles on both sides, whatever the values may be.

We stopped arguing yesterday. You're too late for the party, bro.

 

[singularity35]

We stopped arguing yesterday. You're too late for the party, bro.

I'm making my own.

 

[cncpro11]

Inlcusive obviously means a sum of two angles in this case. Are you saying 0+X=X, where the X is not a sum of two values?

No, what I am saying is that an inclusive angle has two equal legs, which is what a "v" grind is.
A chisel grind is a right triangle where the hypotenuse and side opposite are not equal. You can't just rotate a triangle and call it something that it's not.

 

[BenchCo Spydermade]

That drawing is for an equilateral triangle, two equal legs, which would make the vertex the cutting edge and the angle inclusive, or equal on both sides if a line were made perpendicular to the vertex to the opposite side.
A chisel ground edge would be more of a right triangle and not inclusive....two right triangles would make an inclusive angle though.

Inlcusive obviously means a sum of two angles in this case. Are you saying 0+X=X, where the X is not a sum of two values?

We stopped arguing yesterday. You're too late for the party, bro.

Lol, two people make late comments
The one who disagrees w you is "late for the party". I am glad to.argue with you over these because no one I know cares enough about blades to take a side, but you should try harder to be objective. It will give you more credibility.

 

[singularity35]

No, what I am saying is that an inclusive angle has two equal legs, which is what a "v" grind is.
A chisel grind is a right triangle where the hypotenuse and side opposite are not equal. You can't just rotate a triangle and call it something that it's not.

Who says the two legs must be equal to be called inclusive?

 

[cncpro11]

Who says the two legs must be equal to be called inclusive?

Well, if it's not, then you will get one of those horrible benchmade edges everyone is so fond of making hate threads about.

 

[singularity35]

Well, if it's not, then you will get one of those horrible benchmade edges everyone is so fond of making hate threads about.

They're still called inclusive as "horrible" as they are.

Inclusive angle means the sum of angles. A sum is the result of two addends. Addends can be equal or not, the result is still a sum because it includes both values. Therefore an inclusive angle is the result of adding two values together, the two values not necessarily being equal to each other.

 

[BenchCo Spydermade]

So some of us think only C is "inclusive".

Others say only A is NOT inclusive.

Others feel if you say inclusive you are speaking about the entire angle of any of these.

For the record, we are all crazy if we're still posting. Lol

 

[singularity35]

For the record, we are all crazy if we're still posting. Lol

You'll get no argument from me on that.


"I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested"-Sheldon Cooper.

 

[brancron]

I love dumb arguments!

 

[shinyedges]

Wait... inclusive means the sum of both angles even if there different angles???? duh...

 

[B34NS]

Wow, what a thread.

And you'd think math is something we could all agree on.

 

[DAVE_M]

I love dumb arguments!

I believe the word you are looking for is opinionated. There is nothing dumb about it.

 

[Fanglekai]

I would say 30° chisel grind. That is succinct and clear. I don't like chisel grinds so I don't own any and cannot answer your question about the Lansky. You could use a flat Norton stone. They are cheap and pretty good. A Wicked Edge would work too.

 

[cncpro11]

They're still called inclusive as "horrible" as they are.

Inclusive angle means the sum of angles. A sum is the result of two addends. Addends can be equal or not, the result is still a sum because it includes both values. Therefore an inclusive angle is the result of adding two values together, the two values not necessarily being equal to each other.

I understand what you are saying, but in my line of work as well as in the knife industry, I have never heard of anyone talk about an included angle being anything but equal on both sides.
Honest question: if you send a knife out for sharpening and ask for a 40 degree inclusive edge, would you be happy if one side were 10 degrees and the other side 30? And if you didn't ask for an inclusive edge, would you be ok if it were sharpened at 40 degrees per side?

 

[trevitrace]

Singularity and RX once had a/an discussion/argument on whether it was eggshell or antique white...I believe it is still ongoing.

 

[brancron]

I believe the word you are looking for is opinionated. There is nothing dumb about it.

I'll stick with "dumb," thanks.

 

[singularity35]

I understand what you are saying, but in my line of work as well as in the knife industry, I have never heard of anyone talk about an included angle being anything but equal on both sides.
Honest question: if you send a knife out for sharpening and ask for a 40 degree inclusive edge, would you be happy if one side were 10 degrees and the other side 30? And if you didn't ask for an inclusive edge, would you be ok if it were sharpened at 40 degrees per side?

I hear you but that's just not accurate. What you are referring to, is convention, not the true meaning of the word.