INFI current vs Old

N

number41

Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
690
The last couple of weeks I have been wondering about if current INFI is as good as the previous gens. I have been testing the edge of my HR2 at different edge angles and at higher angles seems to have decent edge stability... but at lower angles like 15dps it seems to struggle with micro chipping on hard woods.

I have tested various steels .... so many steels and to be honest at 20 dps you get the same performance with many other brands. I am a Busse fan, i like the designs and carry a Busse everyday but this bugs me. Not knowing what the steel was years ago and what it is now makes me wonder.

Are we allowed to speculate? Can we get a answer regarding this? I know a lot of people want to know this.
 
I've had a DS6, DS8, and a SOB chip on me from doing light work of chopping some branches on trails. The branches were green wood too. When I did have a HR2 and used it on some trails it did fine as far as the chipping is concerned.
Just my .02 :)
 
I‘ve read alot of comments that say the old Infi was better. Just as tough and had the higher hardness so it kept an edge noticeably longer.

I assume it was changed to save time And money.
 
This should be interesting. ..

I know there have been 1 or 2 revisions on Infi since introducing.
The only knives I ever experienced a “failure” on were generally my fault, and exceeded the general intended purpose.

skeleton key - tip broke prying

Xxl Nick - center blade of the bevel bent out after some extensive use chopping down about 10 -15, 8-10” diameter trees. *Prob one of the most satisfying knives to use on small trees.

NMFBM - tip bent then broke 1/8” of tip clean off chopping up double layer 5000lb rated shipping crates.

Regardless I’m always super impressed with Busse knives durability wise and will always be a customer.

I’ll be curious how the tip on my AFBM holds up with proper action. This would be I suppose the more “modern” Infi chopper in the user queue.
 
Nismo17 said:
This should be interesting. ..

I know there have been 1 or 2 revisions on Infi since introducing.
The only knives I ever experienced a “failure” on were generally my fault, and exceeded the general intended purpose.

skeleton key - tip broke prying

Xxl Nick - center blade of the bevel bent out after some extensive use chopping down about 10 -15, 8-10” diameter trees. *Prob one of the most satisfying knives to use on small trees.

NMFBM - tip bent then broke 1/8” of tip clean off chopping up double layer 5000lb rated shipping crates.

Regardless I’m always super impressed with Busse knives durability wise and will always be a customer.

I’ll be curious how the tip on my AFBM holds up with proper action. This would be I suppose the more “modern” Infi chopper in the user queue.
Click to expand...
Wooden shipping crates?
 
jeepin said:
I‘ve read alot of comments that say the old Infi was better. Just as tough and had the higher hardness so it kept an edge noticeably longer.

I assume it was changed to save time And money.
Click to expand...
It could be a change in geometry also.... one thing we do know is its A8mod... the latest INFI atleast
 
Yes. The blue heavy duty chep pallets. I was hitting nails which didn’t help. The edge was mostly unaffected and cut a few nails in half, no chips on edge.

Just the tip somehow got caught on just the right angle and fatigued. The tips on the NMFBM were a bit on the thin side from my recollection, compared to other battle mistress line.
 
number41 said:
It could be a change in geometry also.... one thing we do know is its A8mod... the latest INFI atleast
Click to expand...
This is true. Newer Busses seem to be much better at fine cutting tasks and thinner bevel/ edge geometry. The old thick beveled models at times needed to see a re-profile based on use expectations
 
Nismo17 said:
This is true. Newer Busses seem to be much better at fine cutting tasks and thinner bevel/ edge geometry. The old thick beveled models at times needed to see a re-profile based on use expectations
Click to expand...
Yes geometry... edge angles and cross section thickness. All of this plays a roll.
 
number41 said:
Yes geometry... edge angles and cross section thickness. All of this plays a roll.
Click to expand...
Yup. That’s why the xxl nick santoku style knife from Busse immensely impressed me. 0.22 thick but with thinner bevel and factory zero/convex edge meant for kitchen use.

Not many other kitchen knives exist where you can clear a small grove of trees then go prep dinner after lol.
 
number41 said:
The last couple of weeks I have been wondering about if current INFI is as good as the previous gens. I have been testing the edge of my HR2 at different edge angles and at higher angles seems to have decent edge stability... but at lower angles like 15dps it seems to struggle with micro chipping on hard woods.
Click to expand...

Have you tried a micro bevel to protect that thinner edge?
 
Several thoughts :

First, how are you measuring the 15 DPS? An angle wedge can be less than precise, best is laser goniometer but almost nobody knows about them.

Second, how are you sharpening and apexing? This can make a very large difference and the more details the easier it is to pinpoint.

Thrid, how many times have you sharpened this knife? It seems the steel can be quite damaged until you grind away quite a bit just due to power grinding alone. I notice knives I grind on my Tormek that are unused from factory seem to produce very difficult to remove burrs and ones that have either been used heavily or that I've removed quite a bit of material seem much easier to get a clean apex on from the start and would likely perform much better. This is a common issue with production knives in general due to grinding at high speed on uncooled belts.

Nismo17 said:
This is true. Newer Busses seem to be much better at fine cutting tasks and thinner bevel/ edge geometry. The old thick beveled models at times needed to see a re-profile based on use expectations
Click to expand...

It's truly all relative, newer Busse's have seemed to be thinner behind the edge bevel where it meets the primary grind but they still have very obtuse edge geometry on par with just about any Busse knives I've seen from very old days.

resinguy said:
Have you tried a micro bevel to protect that thinner edge?
Click to expand...

If you are seeing microscopic damage and you can rule out that it is not mechanical induced heat damage or overgrinding damage then the simple answer is to just thicken the edge enough to stabilize the apex and adding a microbevel at say 18 DPS would likely cause the issue to go away completely. You only want to increase the thickness slightly past the depth of the damage you are seeing, it doesn't take much at all... maybe double the width of the damage at most.
 
Also worth noting, I don't see anything wrong here with the fact that it is taking a small amount of damage in the hardest use. This just means you've optimized the edge geometry for your application. Another thing worth noting is it's very easy to come to conclusions which are not quite accurate about performance when all factors are not equal. You say other knives give similar performance but that means little if you're not comparing identical knives in most every other way than steel. Steel is just one factor and honestly overall geometry makes a very large part of performance. This is why Spyderco has the 'Mule' series where they run different steels in the same exact knife pattern so as to make sure you're seeing only the difference of varying steels and no other factors.
 
Father & Son Traditional Sharpening said:
Several thoughts :

First, how are you measuring the 15 DPS? An angle wedge can be less than precise, best is laser goniometer but almost nobody knows about them.

Second, how are you sharpening and apexing? This can make a very large difference and the more details the easier it is to pinpoint.

Thrid, how many times have you sharpened this knife? It seems the steel can be quite damaged until you grind away quite a bit just due to power grinding alone. I notice knives I grind on my Tormek that are unused from factory seem to produce very difficult to remove burrs and ones that have either been used heavily or that I've removed quite a bit of material seem much easier to get a clean apex on from the start and would likely perform much better. This is a common issue with production knives in general due to grinding at high speed on uncooled belts.



It's truly all relative, newer Busse's have seemed to be thinner behind the edge bevel where it meets the primary grind but they still have very obtuse edge geometry on par with just about any Busse knives I've seen from very old days.



If you are seeing microscopic damage and you can rule out that it is not mechanical induced heat damage or overgrinding damage then the simple answer is to just thicken the edge enough to stabilize the apex and adding a microbevel at say 18 DPS would likely cause the issue to go away completely. You only want to increase the thickness slightly past the depth of the damage you are seeing, it doesn't take much at all... maybe double the width of the damage at most.
Click to expand...
I measure my edges electronically and they are exact.

I finish my edges on a 2000 grid ceramic stone. I have sharpened this knife 6.. 7 times and my other HR2 twice. Its how the steel performs. Currently ots at 21dps which is high. Any steel performs at this angle.

My question to Jerry Busse Jerry Busse is have they changed the steel or heat treat. Why so many reports of Busse chipping when the website says they have never chipped a edge ever.
 
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