INFI or CPM 3V....which is better?

Larrin said:
3V is definitely more wear resistant than INFI. I couldn't tell you for sure which one is tougher. They are similar as far as potential hardness. INFI is hyped up for its corrosion resistance, but 3V is also very good as far as tool steels go. I think the decision should be based more on the knife and heat treatment than just the steel. For example, if you decided that INFI was the better steel, or even better heat treatment than any 3V knife, if you don't like the look or feel of Busse knives you shouldn't force yourself to get one.
Click to expand...
I have never used a Busse,could be I should.
I have a Fehrman in 3V I have used,and a forged 3V Competition Cutter from an ABS MasterSmith that I have never used as I want to keep it pristine,it's the second or third MS blade I acquired here at BladeForums.
Haven't had any trouble with edge retention or corrosion on the Fehrman and it's relatively easy to sharpen.
Heat treatment and optimized edge/blade geometry goes a long way in what you want to do with a knife,imo. :)

Doug

Edit:Just watched the Browning chopfest:eek:,good stuff. :thumbup::D
 
It is in this process that the very soul of a blades performance will be born. It can also be the most expensive process involved in the making of a fine blade. Sadly, the knife buying public has been led to believe that Rockwell Hardness is some sort of gauge by which to determine performance. This is ridiculous! Following standard ASTM heat treating and tempering protocols, a blade made from a standard tool steel can be "properly" heat treated and tempered in less than 1-1/2 hours and brought to a hardness of 57-59 Rc. So what! Take one of our blades that has received our proprietary heat treat and tempering protocol of over 40 hrs. and it will also test out at 57-59 Rc. The fact is that one of our transversion wave tempered SR-77 blades that tests out at 57-59 Rc will spank the living hell out of a standard heat treated knife blade out of the same material that also has a 57-59 Rc hardness.

Grain structure and carbide distribution, are the keys to great performance NOT Rockwell hardness!
Click to expand...

I wonder what that is supposed to mean. With a low alloy steel, you don't need prolonged soaks to get everything dissolved in the austenite, plus the transformations are mostly dependent on temperature, not time. Martensite forms at around the speed of sound. If they do multiple normalizing cycles, stress relieves, multiple quenches, marquench, austemper, etc., that's up on most of the production industry, but lots of smiths do it too. I don't see any reason to snipe at the ASTM, the standards they put out for some materials handle temps, pressures, and forces that would turn a human being into a fine pink mist. What we make a knife do isn't all that crazy when compared to heavy machinery and high speed operations.
 
Isnt INFI chemically almost exact S1 steel? AND it contains 0.2 percent of nitrogen which otherwise isnt in S1. I have strange feeling that that is the key of INFI properties. Hard to tell if its introduced during the manufacture, or during the heat treat.
Hovever I have seen TENAX knife (old Poldi proprietary S1 steel) to cut soft steel bolts and nails without any damage to edge whatsoever and been thrown to concrete floor without chiping or rolling. Guess bricks wouldnt be much problem either.
The grind and the heat treat do that.

J.
 
Doug C said:
a forged 3V Competition Cutter from an ABS MasterSmith that I have never used
Click to expand...

I've used mine, and love it. One of my favorites. I got some favorites that are Busse's, too. :D

They both will chop for longer than I can go without needing a sharpening (though I'll almost always sharpen them shortly after using). I think you would be happy with either steel, so maybe you ought to get the design you prefer. I've found them both pretty easy to sharpen and both can be stropped to razor sharpness.


DSC05036.jpg
 
I have owned and used hard both INFI and Fehrman's CPM3V. I don't own any Busse Blades in INFI anymore. Eric Fehrman knows how to heat treat CPM3V and make it perform. I have never had any trouble with rusting either, just wipe it off when you are done. Both are great steels, but for my money Fehrman is better.
 
Broos,

That is one sweet bowie knife you have there. Who makes it and where could I get one?
 
MicroAlign said:
Broos,

That is one sweet bowie knife you have there. Who makes it and where could I get one?
Click to expand...

Bailey Bradshaw made it. It seems his website is down right now. Unfortunately I do not have his contact info, but I think you can find it pretty easily with a search. If you can't let me know. This was a plain no frills knife he had as a personal user.

http://www.bradshawcutlery.com/

I got lucky, and got mine here on the makers FS forum.
 
Trailside 22: I am with you on the Fehrman comments. My Shadow Scout has kept a great edge for an extended period of use, of course, I don't subject my blades to this inane 'test schedule' against steel targets etc, but all in all, Eric knows how to get the heat treating right.

Busse is right up there with quality, fit and finish. And no, I am not going to use my vintage Battle Mistress to smash a concrete block or cut the roof off a 57 Chevy. The little Fiskars is a cheaper way to go if I just HAD (for whatever mystical reason) to engage in such a trivial endeavor. Of course, if you just have to destroy a $450 knife, go ahead, be my guest. Gasoline can spike to $6 and people won't refrain from blazing down the roads at 80mph plus. People just won't use the right tool for the job or change their behavior until they are forced to by old age, lack of funds or the quiet realization that vanity is more popular than ever.

That being said, both company offerings make superb cutlery.
 
I have a fehrman and many busse's but have been great. I have only used mine for general wood cutting and bushcraft. I did cut open mini kegs with my AD and it held up great. Both have held up fine and I like both steels. I like Busse products better and have used many more of there products...might be why. I figure you cant go wrong with either, just find a model you like, buy it and find out.
 
I have used my Fehrman Last Chance and my Busse ASH 1 in the woods and I can honestly say for most uses I prefer the Fehrman hands down. From the factory it comes sharper and is just generally finished better than most of the newer Busses I have seen. I have had no issues with chipping and toughness has never been an issue either, it holds a great edge because of the steel, the heat treat, the edge geometry and the fact that it has been polished nicely. The Busse is a little easier to sharpen after some really hard use and it is obviously beefier than the Fehrman so for really hard prying it may be better suited. I have split plenty of logs with the .25 Fehrman and at no time did I think it was going to break or anything like that. It really comes down to if you are going to use either knife at its absolute limit where one would keep going after the other was completely useless. I would venture that a very very very small percentage of the people using these knives are even coming close. I really don't think you will be displeased with either. The destruction tests are awesome and a great way to see what knives are really worth paying for. I think personally if you are chopping your knife into concrete on a regular basis you probably need to re-evaluate your choice in tools. In choosing the knife I would look at a few things. How much are you going to use it? How long are you going to use it, overnights, weekend trips, week longs or extended? Will it be your only knife you have with you? Do you carry sharpening gear to maintain it? What are you going to use it for? Once you answer those questions honestly to yoursel you probably can narrow it down further.
 
I own many Busses, and I have owned several Fehrmans. The only Fehrman I have left is the ThruHiker. The reason I got rid of my Fehrmans is ergonomics, not blade performance. The ones I used worked just fine, and they kept their edges well, but in the end they just didn't feel right in my hand. I can say the same about some Busses. The Ergos never felt good either and so I've sold them too (except for a heavily modified Natural Outlaw - E). The old straight handled BMs and SHs look really cool, but in use they tended to pinch the pinky finger while chopping. The new fusion handles work best for me, but even with them I grind off the bird's beak on my users. Blade performance has been high on all of them though. In the end, find a knife that feels good in your hand and learn how to use it. You might have to go thru a few knives from different makers before you find the right one for you.
 
I really want to try a Fehrman. Having said that, I have tried/tested many Busse knives and am very pleased at how they perform. Even my big, fat Busse FFBM has impressed me in its chopping ability. I just tested it on a 2x4, supporting the 2x4 with my hand, and it only took 7 chops to go through a 2x4. Not a record or anything but pretty good for a first try IMHO. It holds an awesome edge, very corrosion resistant, and most have seen how tough they are in Noss4's test on the FFBM.

The handles are where knives get tricky for me. Lots of great steels out there. But some handles, including some by Busse, just do not work for me. I have found the Fusion on the FFBM to be an excellent ergonomic fit for me. So whatever quality knife you get I think it will come down to other details as most will perform great.
 
MicroAlign said:
I'm wondering if there has been any head to head comparisons between these two steels and which is considered to be superior for larger blades. I'm thinking of getting a new bowie knife and I'm trying to decide which steel I want to go with. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I have a few busses, also fehrmans and bark rivers in CPM3v
I will throw out what I have found this is just MY experience with the steels so take it for what its worth.

toughness: as far as chipping INFI wins here but not by much it would be damn hard to get either to chip under normal use

edge holding: CPM3v wins here when hardened to the same RC agin just my experience

strenth:short of destroying the knives (somthing I cant see as reasonable)I cant say for sure but my vote goes to INFI

sharpening: TIE just to damn close to call

rust resistance: INFI wins no question CPM3v has prblems with pitting and if not mantained regularly the edge will actually rust off making apear to have dulled this leads some to beleive CPM3v loses its edge faster but if you mantain it the edge will outlast INFI

my opinion?
I like both but as far as usability I like CPM3v more, If I needed to cut a plane in half? well I'd grab a busse.
hope this helps!:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top