Inside Information

[wobly]

People (especially fanboi's) love new stuff. KAI is caught between a rock and a hard place due to things like the SHOT show, Blade show, etc. They show off new products, people go bananas and then want it all tomorrow. That isn't the way it works in the real world, but people are too self-involved to give a crap about reality outside of their personal lives.

My opinion is that KAI should do the "Under promise, Over deliver" thing. Example: At the Blade show "The 0801CF is due at the end of December 2013." Then, when they are ready to ship in early November, "We have shipped the first batch of 0801CF's to dealers!"

That buys time for mistakes, materials issues, etc. and it keeps the customers happy. Will that satisfy everyone? Nope. People will have opinions on everything and then they will try to "backplan" for what they think is reality. But, keeping info from people just makes people A) make up their own reality B) lose interest.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Well that is the tough part, and has been explained here before. Information will leak from our non-consumer (SHOT) show(s), and also public shows (Blade), and then it's all out there. Now it's a stampede for the details and delivery, trust me we understand. Don't really want to hide the information, but do need (in this case BF members), to understand that when we show at SHOT, it is for our dealers who are buying seasons ahead. All national retailers are currently buying for summer of next year. When we show them new knives now, they understand the time frames. It's important you do as well. It will assist in keeping your delivery expectations real. As an example, we have a line review for Wal-Mart end of this month. The items they pick will be for July of 2014. Some of the items we show them you haven't seen yet. So it's hard for us with consumers to hold back with info, and on their excitement for new products, and yet keep them enthused, all while dealing with the reality of the retailers delivery dates.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[wobly]

It makes sense to me. Of course, I love Blackberry, so I understand about patience and business's different timelines.

Personally, it drives me nuts when people start complaining about "not enough info", "they missed the timeline" or whatever other problem they have. If they want to start their own business and deal with others like themselves, they are welcome to do so.

 

[Kai Corp.]

It makes sense to me. Of course, I love Blackberry, so I understand about patience and business's different timelines.

Personally, it drives me nuts when people start complaining about "not enough info", "they missed the timeline" or whatever other problem they have. If they want to start their own business and deal with others like themselves, they are welcome to do so.

The best we can do is try and balance the reality of who we sell to (the dealers), and try to keep the expectations real with the end-line-user. Today I'd say we struggle with that, but I'm not sure it's a situation that will ever be perfect.

 

[wobly]

The best we can do is try and balance the reality of who we sell to (the dealers), and try to keep the expectations real with the end-line-user. Today I'd say we struggle with that, but I'm not sure it's a situation that will ever be perfect.

I can't think of a single company in any industry that doesn't have that problem. Imagine being an auto manufacturer. Throw a few "professional reviewers" in there to examine something they may or may not have seen in person. Here, you just get the amateurs.

 

[Civil PE]

Thanks for any info you can share KAI

 

[RamZar]

My opinion is that KAI should do the "Under promise, Over deliver" thing. Example: At the Blade show "The 0801CF is due at the end of December 2013." Then, when they are ready to ship in early November, "We have shipped the first batch of 0801CF's to dealers!"

That buys time for mistakes, materials issues, etc. and it keeps the customers happy. Will that satisfy everyone? Nope. People will have opinions on everything and then they will try to "backplan" for what they think is reality. But, keeping info from people just makes people A) make up their own reality B) lose interest.

Always under promise and over deliver.

The 6-7 month window from announcement to release works out fairly well in most cases. Look at the ZT 0801, 0566 and 0770 announced during the SHOT Show (January 14-17, 2013). The first one was out in less than 6 months after the SHOT Show announcement. The other two are just "over the horizon" probably closer to 7 months.

As you get within a few weeks of the release more updates like ZT did for the 0777-M390 with production schedule and numbers (LE).

 

[Kai Corp.]

Always under promise and over deliver.

How bout we make no promises, and they will get delivered.

The 6-7 month window from announcement to release works out fairly well in most cases. Look at the ZT 0801, 0566 and 0770 announced during the SHOT Show (January 14-17, 2013). The first one was out in less than 6 months after the SHOT Show announcement. The other two are just "over the horizon" probably closer to 7 months.

Well really other than a few of the more challenging pieces, that's how it always rolls out.

As you get within a few weeks of the release more updates like ZT did for the 0777-M390 with production schedule and numbers (LE).

Try and not use this as an example going forward. Just not ready for that.

 

[SpyKers]

KAI honestly has no obligation to show what they are producing to the end line consumer before it's release. There are a multitude of companies across different product platforms that practice this. The auto industry rarely shows a production vehicle until they are close to release, Apple keeps their walled garden up until the release, this list could go on and on. The trick is, making a desirable product. Which you guys already do. Whether or not we have an early sneak peak will only drive us to to want the product for months ahead as opposed to days or weeks. If the product is solid and marketed correctly, the sales will follow regardless. While I think it's nice to have the information early, it does not effect whether or not I will buy the product. Personally, I think it only puts strain on the company to meet the endless demands of a varied consumer base with a wide range of temperaments. I think Field of Dreams says it best: "If you build it, they will come." Us fan boys on BF probably make up only a small fraction of your overall sales, to cater to our every whim is preposterous. The purpose of the forums is to give us an avenue to interact with the company we love. Whatever information you deem available is merely a bonus if anything. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure we'll keep buying.

 

[RamZar]

Always under promise and over deliver.

How bout we make no promises, and they will get delivered.

That's one route.

The 6-7 month window from announcement to release works out fairly well in most cases. Look at the ZT 0801, 0566 and 0770 announced during the SHOT Show (January 14-17, 2013). The first one was out in less than 6 months after the SHOT Show announcement. The other two are just "over the horizon" probably closer to 7 months.

Well really other than a few of the more challenging pieces, that's how it always rolls out.

Just saying, that may not be a bad thing to put on your website instead of:

• "Coming Soon."
• "This item isn't available yet, but we're excited about it and wanted to show you what's new. More information to come!"
• "There is currently no information on availability or number of products that will be produced."

As you get within a few weeks of the release more updates like ZT did for the 0777-M390 with production schedule and numbers (LE).

Try and not use this as an example going forward. Just not ready for that.

Capito!

 

[freewheeling]

There are like six pages of CRK Sibenzas and Striders on BHQ and I really don't see the difference between any of them, so thanks for making unique knives. I can wait, I guess.

 

[salmonkiller]

I really appreciate this forum and Kai and Jimmer's posts along with the transparency and insight they provide.I can't thank the members here enough as I would never have been able to acquire some of fantastic ZT's I own without having access to the knowledge base and insight of this forum.Thanks to everyone who makes this forum a positive and unenlightening place to get educated about Kai products.
best regards,
salmonkiller

 

[bdmicarta]

This is a 2-way street.
Any company can run the company however they want, make whatever products they want, and they can tell or not telltheir customers whatever they want.
Any customer can buy products from whatever company they want.
If a company keeps a good relationship with their customers, they will sell more product. If a customer alienates their customers they will sell less product.

I don't think anybody is asking for corporate secrets. I have faith in Kershaw (and a few other manufacturers) to be pretty good at manufacturing, and as such I think they will have some pretty good idea of when a product will be available. Things can happen, dates can change, people will understand if you give them honest information. Don't say anything and the torches and pitchforks come out.

If you show a product at a show and then act like it doesn't exist and won't exist in the forseeable future, then why even show it at the show? Why even go to the show? Wait until the product is loaded on trucks and headed to distributors and then tell people that it is coming. I've seen companies that operated like this- you would go to a show or to a retailer and sellers would have the new items on their shelves ready for purchase.

Oh and I wanted to add- since this is the internet there will be all kinds of people here. The mods can certainly deal with people that are disruptive. The rest of us can try to behave properly and discourage the rest of the people from getting out of hand.

 

[Kai Corp.]

If a company keeps a good relationship with their customers, they will sell more product. If a customer alienates their customers they will sell less product.

Thanks for weighing in. I'm unsure I've ever seen any company go out and alienate their customer. Maybe, I've just never heard of such a situation like that.

Things can happen, dates can change, people will understand if you give them honest information. Don't say anything and the torches and pitchforks come out.

We have not experienced this in the past. If you know the history of this forum, then you know that we've opened ourselves up more than any other manufacturer that I have seen. It ended abruptly once, and almost twice. All due to mostly folks complaining and expecting. the more we gave the more they wanted. It just didn't work out.

If you show a product at a show and then act like it doesn't exist and won't exist in the forseeable future, then why even show it at the show? Why even go to the show?

I'm not sure we do this, or any manufacturer I know of in this industry.

Wait until the product is loaded on trucks and headed to distributors and then tell people that it is coming. I've seen companies that operated like this- you would go to a show or to a retailer and sellers would have the new items on their shelves ready for purchase.

In a perfect world, but unfortunately the information highway makes this impossible. Did you read my last few posts above? It may help with more understanding.

 

[LadyEarth]

I read through the this whole thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but one of the keys in obtaining and holding onto customers for the long haul is by "pampering" their loyalty. How the pampering is done is of course all up to KAI as an overall company but just by the fact that such thread like this as well as the interactions, etc exists and is promoted very clearly towards letting us know we are valued and well wanted by Kershaw while keeping a reasonable boundary between customer and company in terms of what is in production is a huge mark in KAI's favor.

By having KAI (and any various members from said company on forum) set a tone towards a fair and interactive ground yet also carry a very respectful air, it had encouraged our desire to listen and give the same vibes in action (for most part) back in return. The downside to that is of course that such action is in some respect a double edge knife with certain members of the knife collecting population and their clear wants in enabling further their addictions to sharp metal objects. However, the benefit of having such candor and interactive tangibility from KAI is quite in favor for all parties involved as ceasing such actions will easily cause a negative backlash that wont be productive to KAI's public image in the long run.

Where to balance one's self on the proverbial knife's edge, that itself is the real question.

 

[dishcore]

I read through the this whole thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but one of the keys in obtaining and holding onto customers for the long haul is by "pampering" their loyalty. How the pampering is done is of course all up to KAI as an overall company but just by the fact that such thread like this as well as the interactions, etc exists and is promoted very clearly towards letting us know we are valued and well wanted by Kershaw while keeping a reasonable boundary between customer and company in terms of what is in production is a huge mark in KAI's favor.

By having KAI (and any various members from said company on forum) set a tone towards a fair and interactive ground yet also carry a very respectful air, it had encouraged our desire to listen and give the same vibes in action (for most part) back in return. The downside to that is of course that such action is in some respect a double edge knife with certain members of the knife collecting population and their clear wants in enabling further their addictions to sharp metal objects. However, the benefit of having such candor and interactive tangibility from KAI is quite in favor for all parties involved as ceasing such actions will easily cause a negative backlash that wont be productive to KAI's public image in the long run.

Where to balance one's self on the proverbial knife's edge, that itself is the real question.

You just said all of that, and i'll be the guy standing next to you with my arms crossed and nodding my head with authority.

 

[AdioSS]

To me, it seems like KAI's interactions & openness with customers makes the company seem more like a smaller custom knife company instead of the bigger mass market company that it really is. I liked KAI products before this place, but since joining it has become nearly an obsession...

 

[LadyEarth]

To me, it seems like KAI's interactions & openness with customers makes the company seem more like a smaller custom knife company instead of the bigger mass market company that it really is. I liked KAI products before this place, but since joining it has become nearly an obsession...

I agree. It's nice watching KAI put a human face onto their products and what they will stand by in quality and standards while candidly saying "We're knife addicts right there with y'all!". If everyone can appreciate that more often, more things will be taken for granted less often.

 

[SpyKers]

AGREED. KAI simply should continue to interact with us rabid fans and make us feel like we're loved. Gawwwsh I feel special.

Basically, don't run off on us like Thomas.... Kidding. Kidding. Really, just kidding.

 

[xd40seg]

As a consumer, I like information. However; I work in Regulatory for the Federal Government and it really sucks having people call and say "WHERE'S MY PERMIT!". We have deadlines we are supposed to meet, per Federal Regulations, of 45 days, 60 days and 120 days, so we usually tell people we should have our decision within X days. Most of the time we make our decision well within the timeframe, sometimes we don't due to other issues. When we don't meet the timeframe people get upset, but if we are open and tell them about the issues, they usually understand. It still doesn't make them happy they didn't get a decision on time, but at least we are talking to them. I am in a little different realm than knife manufacturing though.

KAI puts out a great product. I was a diehard BM guy until I joined BF. When I joined BM didn't have a subforum, but KAI did, so I started looking here. Since then I have purchased 7 KAI knives and have the 0566 on pre-order. Waiting, for me anyway, is a blessing and a curse. I do a lot of impulse buying. Having to wait for the release of a new knife gives me time to save money and decide if it's something I really want. On the other side, it gives me time to talk myself out of buying something also.

Shaun