Insurance and trades

dkb45

dkb45

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A recent thread flew off the rails on an off topic discussion of this, but there wasn't much for a definitive answer. I was under the assumption that the purpose of insurance was to cover you with monetary compensation in the event of a package being lost or damaged, trade or sale. You declare a value, and the package is covered for that much. Seems cut and dry. Apparently that may not be the case?

I know the chances of losing a package are very slim. USPS has a bit of a reputation for doing their only job right. My question is exactly what is the interaction between insurance and trading where there is no proper transaction to file a claim using the receipt. Is insurance on a trade security theater? Do the stars have to align for it to work? Does it work right just with extra leg work on your part?
 
I've never had to make a claim on insurance because I've yet to lose a package(knock on wood). But generally if it's over $100 worth of knives going out I'll add the insurance. I could he alright with a loss under that, although I wouldn't like it. But I could deal with it. Over that mark though, I want that potential safety feature of insurance.

From what I understood from the thread I'm pretty sure you're referring to is there doesn't have to be a transaction that took place for insurance. At least in the instance of a trade. All you have to do is provide proof of how much it was worth and you could get the insurance. Proof from the manufacturer or dealer I believe was mentioned.

At least that's what I recall. I've been at work all day so I may be miss remembering something.
 
I know the thread you are referring to as I was part of it. When someone purchases an item from you, there is a receipt involved such as Paypal. When you do an online trade like most of us here do, there is no receipt. They want a receipt for the transaction at hand, not from when the seller originally purchased the item. Items lose value, and if you purchased a knife last year for $200 and insure it for $200 in a trade, you are simply NOT going to receive $200 IF you were to recover the insurance claim. If it were this easy, people would scam the Postal Service all day long. You could basically insure a box with stones for $200 and the recipient could file a claim, doesn't work that way. Below is a statement from a member who currently works for the postal service.
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I work at something of a mail center for USPS. It's not as simple as slapping on $400 worth of insurance and assuming that if the package is lost they give you $400. Should they? Yes. Is that how it works? Unfortunately not.
A Paypal transaction can usually serve as a receipt, and therefore a value for the item shipped. Though it wouldn't work in this specific situation because of the trade aspect and the fact that friends & family was used.
 
Let's say I buy a knife, and send it to my brother for his birthday. I buy insurance for the value of said knife. In the event of a claim, I'd able to show the receipt from my purchase. (but no receipt from the transaction between my brother and myself) Would this not be covered?
 
r8shell said:
Let's say I buy a knife, and send it to my brother for his birthday. I buy insurance for the value of said knife. In the event of a claim, I'd able to show the receipt from my purchase. (but no receipt from the transaction between my brother and myself) Would this not be covered?
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This is exactly what I was told by the three Post offices in town. The transaction needs to be between the sender, and the recipient. I know because it happened to me, as I said in another post. I used to insure every knife I traded for the full value for years. I had one not show, and I could not collect, as I did not have an actual receipt from the deal because of it being a trade. Since then I do not bother to insure. If I add up all the insurance money I would pay to insure, it's less for me to just refund the person I traded with, and take the loss.

Yes, I did contact the Postal Inspectors, and they did squat. They sent a form to the person I traded with, and myself and that was it. I contacted them several time, and they just blew me off. They could not care less about the little guy. I know we have folks here who used to work for the Postal Service, and swear differently, but that has not been my experience with more than one Post Office, and the Postal Inspectors. As far as I'm concerned, they take your money and tell you to pound tar when you try to file a claim.
 
If you can prove value then you can make a claim. The PP receipt is an easy way to do that, but items not sold still have value and can be insured. The problem is if there isn't a sale you have to prove the value by other means. The postal service thinks items depreciate in value and they are never going to pay $1000 just because you insured the item for that if the item is only worth $500. Over insuring is a complete waste of money.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
If you can prove value then you can make a claim. The PP receipt is an easy way to do that, but items not sold still have value and can be insured. The problem is if there isn't a sale you have to prove the value by other means. The postal service thinks items depreciate in value and they are never going to pay $1000 just because you insured the item for that if the item is only worth $500. Over insuring is a complete waste of money.
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Have you ever had a trade item get lost in the mail, and collect the insurance for said item? My guess is no. You go on the USPS website, and read their terms and assume they will pay. When it does in fact happen to you, the n you will think differently. So many respond who never even had to file a claim, therefore have no real world experience, other then what you have read.
 
knifehunt said:
Have you ever had a trade item get lost in the mail, and collect the insurance for said item? My guess is no. You go on the USPS website, and read their terms and assume they will pay. When it does in fact happen to you, the n you will think differently. So many respond who never even had to file a claim, therefore have no real world experience, other then what you have read.
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I have not(not a trader), but USPS was insuring packages long before PP and the internet. I would fully agree that it may not be an easy process to prove the value and many would just give up at some point. Dealing with the postal service on any claim can be a long and tedious process(this I do have experience in). With that said I will wait for some of the postal workers to weigh in. I am sure they can explain the process.
 
for what its worth, I read what I could on the USPS website and it only states that you will have to prove the value of the item that was insured, no sale has to be tied to the shipping of the package. They don't care why it was shipped. That's what I read atleast, and I'm sure it would be a pain in the ass but still worth the extra 5 bucks personally.
 
korn_2956 said:
for what its worth, I read what I could on the USPS website and it only states that you will have to prove the value of the item that was insured, no sale has to be tied to the shipping of the package. They don't care why it was shipped. That's what I read atleast, and I'm sure it would be a pain in the ass but still worth the extra 5 bucks personally.
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Again, you are going by what you read, not real world experience. Everything looks good on paper till it's time to put in a claim, then everything changes. I really don't care what any Postal worker past or present on this site has t say, I know what I was told in person at three different Post Offices.
 
knifehunt said:
Again, you are going by what you read, not real world experience. Everything looks good on paper till it's time to put in a claim, then everything changes. I really don't care what any Postal worker past or present on this site has t say, I know what I was told in person at three different Post Offices.
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That's why I said, "for what it's worth this is what I read." I don't know your situation, nor do I know how hard you really tried, so I will continue to buy insurance. I personally trust the policy on a federal website a little more then your one experience, but that's my opinion, everyone needs to choose for them selves. Like I said last time, this is based on what I read.
 
I had to make a claim on donated knives. I sent several knives to a friend, who is now a Cpt in the Army, to give out to several soldiers in his unit. There was no charge, no payment ...nothing. I had to get a paper from the manufacturer as to the estimated value, because the knives were no longer produced. Printed several statements of completed sales on eBay of the same knives and after several months, was granted a full refund minus shipping fees. The package was supposed to be signed for, but apparently the postman left the package and no receipt of delivery was ever located. The knives were eventually replaced and given out.
 
? Knifehunt-in your situation did you have any proof of value at all to present to them. I know you didn't have it from the trade, but did you have an original purchase receipt or some other form of proof of value to present?
 
Peter Hartwig said:
? Knifehunt-in your situation did you have any proof of value at all to present to them. I know you didn't have it from the trade, but did you have an original purchase receipt or some other form of proof of value to present?
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Yes I had my original receipt from the manufacturer. They would not accept it. Their reasoning was that I could not prove that is what I sent. They said had it been an actual sale with a receipt, I could have collected on a claim. I went to the two other Post Offices in town, and was told the exact same thing... I even spoke with the Postmaster, and got the same story. Needless to say, this subject really strikes a nerve, and want folks to know that it is not as cut and dry as folks may think.
 
So it looks like you may have to do the extreme over the top butt covering of recording your packaging and shipping and your opening just in case. Quite ridiculous.
 
With a trade...
Would it be easier to go to paypal and each person on both sides of the trade send a payment of whatever the agreed upon worth of the knives are? The knives can the most assuredly be insured.

That'd mean a receipt is generated and if one person decides to not send his knife, then the other person can simply file a paypal dispute. No muss, no fuss.
 
bodog said:
With a trade...
Would it be easier to go to paypal and each person on both sides of the trade send a payment of whatever the agreed upon worth of the knives are? The knives can the most assuredly be insured.

That'd mean a receipt is generated and if one person decides to not send his knife, then the other person can simply file a paypal dispute. No muss, no fuss.
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What I believe he is saying-instead of just trading, you buy each others knives and create the paperwork needed to file a claim. The problem is(besides the hassel) is that both parties would have to have the funds to buy the others knife. Sometimes they would not, that is why they are trading.
 
knifehunt said:
Yes I had my original receipt from the manufacturer. They would not accept it. Their reasoning was that I could not prove that is what I sent. They said had it been an actual sale with a receipt, I could have collected on a claim. I went to the two other Post Offices in town, and was told the exact same thing... I even spoke with the Postmaster, and got the same story. Needless to say, this subject really strikes a nerve, and want folks to know that it is not as cut and dry as folks may think.
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While I believe what you say happened. I do think they screwed you and did not uphold their end of the agreement. There is no way to be 100% sure what are in these packages no matter if they were a sale or trade unless you witness the packaging, but if enough factors fit they should have honored the insurance(at least IMO). I don't really see how you can scam them on the insurance(maybe missing something), do to the fact that they have to loose the package in order for you to make a claim. Is someone going to pay insurance on numerous packages in the hope they will loose more then he puts out in insurance & mailing. That doesn't seem cost effective for a scammer.

I must say you are a bit of a masochist going to 3 PO's. I went to 1 with my money order claim and it gave me a migraine. 3 hrs. and I think I talked to every one in the building. Every time one would go to the back someone new would show up and I had to tell the story all over again.

Sorry for your loss. While they do have to use caution, they should pay on legit claims. Far too many seem to have trouble collecting.

My $.02 on your situation-nothing more
 
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