Insurance and trades

[korn_2956]

I'm just glad that this huge fraud that's being perpetrated on the public has been exposed...one person claims to have had a bad experience with a USPS insurance claim and that is supposed to be proof of some sort of grand conspiracy.

There are literally tens of millions of postal packages moving around at any one time, the idea that any of them that aren't direct sales transactions are somehow uninsurable is just laughable.

Off to the ignore list I guess..l

That's what I tried to tell him, they don't care why it was shipped, but he had one hell of a life changing experience.

to knifehunt

3 years is a long time to hold a grudge, life is short man chill out, shit happens. I know you wont but honestly its bad for your health and mental wellbeing to hold onto stuff like this. By the way, did you treat the postal workers that you talked to the same friendly way you have been treating everyone in this thread because that could be one reason they didn't give a shit, just saying.

 

[knifehunt]

This is how insurance works whether you are dealing with USPS, UPS, FexEx, etc:

- Whoever purchases the insurance has entered into a contract with the insurance carrier and is called the insured.
- The insurance only covers the insured.
- If the item is lost or damaged, only the insured can file a claim for reimbursement.
- The insurance only covers the fair market value of the lost/damaged item, so if you purchase a million dollars worth of insurance on an item that is only worth $100, the most you will be able to collect is $100 plus the postal fees.
- In order to obtain reimbursement for the lost/damaged item, you, the insured, must prove that you possessed the lost/damaged item (receipt, photos, etc.) and you must prove the value of the item. Collectible items do not necessarily depreciate over time and might even appreciate, so don't let the insurance adjuster bullshit you about that.
- Any shipper other than USPS will probably settle your claim in a timely manner because they don't want to expose themselves to a bad faith lawsuit which would expose them to punitive damages in addition to what the item is worth. In many jurisdictions there is no limit on the dollar amount of punitive damage awards.
- If you are dealing with USPS insurance, be ready to jump through a bunch of hoops and wait a long time to settle your claim. USPS' claims system is purposefully set up to frustrate you and exhaust you into giving up and walking away. USPS has it set up that way because, being a federal agency, they are protected from lawsuits for lost/damaged packages under Sovereign Immunity. The Federal Tort Claims Act merely states that USPS has to treat you in a fair manner when handling your claim; "fair" is not in USPS' vocabulary. If USPS gives you the runaround, your best bet is to call the Postmaster General's office and threaten to contact your Congressman and formally request a Congressional Inquiry; that worked for me. Better yet, don't ship via USPS.

Also, under the law, if the item you sold and sent is lost/damaged, it is your problem, not the buyer's. Until the buyer receives the item in the condition he paid for, you, the seller, still own the item. So if the item is lost or damaged, you, the seller, have a duty to immediately reimburse the buyer in full and it is up to you, the seller, to pursue any insurance claim.

Thank you, this sounds about right. Another reason I'm still mad as a hornet, is that I did reimburse the buyer, and was out the money, and the knife. I made good on my end, the Postal Service did not.

 

[knifehunt]

This is how insurance works whether you are dealing with USPS, UPS, FexEx, etc:

- Whoever purchases the insurance has entered into a contract with the insurance carrier and is called the insured.
- The insurance only covers the insured.
- If the item is lost or damaged, only the insured can file a claim for reimbursement.
- The insurance only covers the fair market value of the lost/damaged item, so if you purchase a million dollars worth of insurance on an item that is only worth $100, the most you will be able to collect is $100 plus the postal fees.
- In order to obtain reimbursement for the lost/damaged item, you, the insured, must prove that you possessed the lost/damaged item (receipt, photos, etc.) and you must prove the value of the item. Collectible items do not necessarily depreciate over time and might even appreciate, so don't let the insurance adjuster bullshit you about that.
- Any shipper other than USPS will probably settle your claim in a timely manner because they don't want to expose themselves to a bad faith lawsuit which would expose them to punitive damages in addition to what the item is worth. In many jurisdictions there is no limit on the dollar amount of punitive damage awards.
- If you are dealing with USPS insurance, be ready to jump through a bunch of hoops and wait a long time to settle your claim. USPS' claims system is purposefully set up to frustrate you and exhaust you into giving up and walking away. USPS has it set up that way because, being a federal agency, they are protected from lawsuits for lost/damaged packages under Sovereign Immunity. The Federal Tort Claims Act merely states that USPS has to treat you in a fair manner when handling your claim; "fair" is not in USPS' vocabulary. If USPS gives you the runaround, your best bet is to call the Postmaster General's office and threaten to contact your Congressman and formally request a Congressional Inquiry; that worked for me. Better yet, don't ship via USPS.

Also, under the law, if the item you sold and sent is lost/damaged, it is your problem, not the buyer's. Until the buyer receives the item in the condition he paid for, you, the seller, still own the item. So if the item is lost or damaged, you, the seller, have a duty to immediately reimburse the buyer in full and it is up to you, the seller, to pursue any insurance claim.

Thank you, this sounds about right. Another reason I'm still mad as a hornet, is that I did reimburse the buyer, and was out the money, and the knife. I made good on my end, the Postal Service did not. At least someone has more then a 1/2oz of brains.

 

[Monofletch]

What do you need to file a claim?
A Tracking or Label Number

The tracking or label number is found on your online label record, package label, mailing receipt, or sales receipt. Tracking and label numbers are between 13 and 34 characters.

Example: 9205 5000 0000 0000 0000 00

If you don't see a number like that, look for a string of 20, 22, 26, 30, or 34 numbers

Proof of Value

Proof of value can include:

A sales receipt
A paid invoice or paid bill of sale
Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
A credit card billing statement
Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed

Evidence of Insurance Purchased

Evidence of insurance includes:

The original mailing receipt issued at the time of mailing
The outer packaging showing the names and addresses of the sender and the addressee and the proper label showing that the article was sent insured
A printed electronic online label record or a computer printout from the application used to print the label and purchase the insurance

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.

Pretty cut and dry if you ask me. USPS.com/help/claims like I said

 

[knifehunt]

I'm just glad that this huge fraud that's being perpetrated on the public has been exposed...one person claims to have had a bad experience with a USPS insurance claim and that is supposed to be proof of some sort of grand conspiracy.

There are literally tens of millions of postal packages moving around at any one time, the idea that any of them that aren't direct sales transactions are somehow uninsurable is just laughable.

Off to the ignore list I guess..l

Yet another on the ignore list! Bye Bye... The list is rapidly building.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

What I can tell you is from my personal experience. USPS will do everything they can to not pay the claim. It's a time consuming process with alot of effort from the claimant. For me it took an appeal process and several months to get my money. A Postmaster from the Post Office actually helped me out and appealed the decision herself. If not for her, I would have been out over $200.00. The sad part is I had the purchase receipt all the info and evidence. Proof that the Postal Service was at fault and responsible. It should have been the easiest and quickest claim but it wasn't. I was shocked to be honest.

 

[knifehunt]

That's what I tried to tell him, they don't care why it was shipped, but he had one hell of a life changing experience.

to knifehunt

3 years is a long time to hold a grudge, life is short man chill out, shit happens. I know you wont but honestly its bad for your health and mental wellbeing to hold onto stuff like this. By the way, did you treat the postal workers that you talked to the same friendly way you have been treating everyone in this thread because that could be one reason they didn't give a shit, just saying.

I treated them fine. I just do not like people calling me a liar. Not sure why the two started calling me a liar, as it really has nothing at all to do with them. They are obvious postal/government worker with a guilty conscience.

 

[STAINLESS90]

I treated them fine. I just do not like people calling me a liar. Not sure why the two started calling me a liar, as it really has nothing at all to do with them. They are obvious postal/government worker with a guilty conscience.

Never called you a liar just said you have a story with a few missing pieces, pieces which as I guessed you fail to produce.

 

[knifehunt]

What I can tell you is from my personal experience. USPS will do everything they can to not pay the claim. It's a time consuming process with alot of effort from the claimant. For me it took an appeal process and several months to get my money. A Postmaster from the Post Office actually helped me out and appealed the decision herself. If not for her, I would have been out over $200.00. The sad part is I had the purchase receipt all the info and evidence. Proof that the Postal Service was at fault and responsible. It should have been the easiest and quickest claim but it wasn't. I was shocked to be honest.

I know you're not lying! I probably should have stayed with it, but I was so stressed over the entire process that I gave up. I'm sure that's what they were looking for.

 

[Gastonknife]

That's what I tried to tell him, they don't care why it was shipped, but he had one hell of a life changing experience.

to knifehunt

3 years is a long time to hold a grudge, life is short man chill out, shit happens. I know you wont but honestly its bad for your health and mental wellbeing to hold onto stuff like this. By the way, did you treat the postal workers that you talked to the same friendly way you have been treating everyone in this thread because that could be one reason they didn't give a shit, just saying.

^^^^^ this

knifehunt, just because you had one bad experience does not give you the right to make blanket statements and tell everyone about how the PO insurance works; or in this case is a fraud. . You are not an expert on the matter and I would guess that your attitude probably played into why some of the folks at the PO would not help you. If it was a big scam as you say; I am sure it would have been on the front page news long ago.
I know they do not make it easy to collect; it took me almost two months to get my money back - but they eventually did. You need to calm down my brother; I do not think you are doing yourself any good here by ranting and raving and calling everyone else stupid.

 

[Monofletch]

For undelivered items you have to wait 30 days(give it time to show up).... on a damaged item it goes as quickly as you have all your paperwork.
Nobody called you a liar.

 

[Monofletch]

This is how insurance works whether you are dealing with USPS, UPS, FexEx, etc:

- Whoever purchases the insurance has entered into a contract with the insurance carrier and is called the insured.
- The insurance only covers the insured.
- If the item is lost or damaged, only the insured can file a claim for reimbursement.
- The insurance only covers the fair market value of the lost/damaged item, so if you purchase a million dollars worth of insurance on an item that is only worth $100, the most you will be able to collect is $100 plus the postal fees.
- In order to obtain reimbursement for the lost/damaged item, you, the insured, must prove that you possessed the lost/damaged item (receipt, photos, etc.) and you must prove the value of the item. Collectible items do not necessarily depreciate over time and might even appreciate, so don't let the insurance adjuster bullshit you about that.
- Any shipper other than USPS will probably settle your claim in a timely manner because they don't want to expose themselves to a bad faith lawsuit which would expose them to punitive damages in addition to what the item is worth. In many jurisdictions there is no limit on the dollar amount of punitive damage awards.
- If you are dealing with USPS insurance, be ready to jump through a bunch of hoops and wait a long time to settle your claim. USPS' claims system is purposefully set up to frustrate you and exhaust you into giving up and walking away. USPS has it set up that way because, being a federal agency, they are protected from lawsuits for lost/damaged packages under Sovereign Immunity. The Federal Tort Claims Act merely states that USPS has to treat you in a fair manner when handling your claim; "fair" is not in USPS' vocabulary. If USPS gives you the runaround, your best bet is to call the Postmaster General's office and threaten to contact your Congressman and formally request a Congressional Inquiry; that worked for me. Better yet, don't ship via USPS.

Also, under the law, if the item you sold and sent is lost/damaged, it is your problem, not the buyer's. Until the buyer receives the item in the condition he paid for, you, the seller, still own the item. So if the item is lost or damaged, you, the seller, have a duty to immediately reimburse the buyer in full and it is up to you, the seller, to pursue any insurance claim.

Those three hoop are pretty rough. Proof of mailing/insurance..proof of value...and proof of damage/nondelivery. Were in the world do you guys come up with this stuff?

 

[knifehunt]

^^^^^ this

knifehunt, just because you had one bad experience does not give you the right to make blanket statements and tell everyone about how the PO insurance works; or in this case is a fraud. . You are not an expert on the matter and I would guess that your attitude probably played into why some of the folks at the PO would not help you. If it was a big scam as you say; I am sure it would have been on the front page news long ago.
I know they do not make it easy to collect; it took me almost two months to get my money back - but they eventually did. You need to calm down my brother; I do not think you are doing yourself any good here by ranting and raving and calling everyone else stupid.

Unfortunately, I do not like to be called a liar. It's bad enough getting ripped by the Postal Service, but to have some nobody's call me a liar is another thing.

Mono and Stainless.... If your posts are responding to me, don't bother. Your're both on my ignore list therefore i can not read anything you're posting. Good bye.

 

[BBKoenigsegg]

Monofletch - FWIW, I just wanted to say that I, along with many others, appreciate your assistance. I've never dealt with you directly, but I've learned a lot from reading your posts. I've also learned a good amount about how you handle situations, and how you carry yourself. You're a solid dude who offers help for no reason other than to help others. Honestly, many of us really appreciate it.

The moral of the story here, as I see it, is this: Take the advice from the man with 20 years of experience working for USPS, as opposed to an angry customer with a single bad experience. Your trade can be insured, safely. It may take some legwork, but you can get the insurance money if it ever came to it. Just be prepared and have your paperwork all squared away, and you should be alright.

Just because there is one guy dedicated to spreading his bad experience, doesn't mean he's spewing the truth. knifehunt, we get it, you're angry. Feel free to tell your experience like you have. But that's all it is, a single experience. It doesn't mean that what you took from it is the law that everyone has to abide by. Oh, and if you want to add me to your ignore list because I'm not backing you wholeheartedly, feel free. With the way you've conducted yourself in this thread, I wouldn't want to deal with you anyway.

 

[knifehunt]

Oh, and if you want to add me to your ignore list because I'm not backing you wholeheartedly, feel free.

Done.... I'm the bad guy cause I got screwed, OK.

 

[BBKoenigsegg]

Done.... I'm the bad guy cause I got screwed, OK.

We understand that you're the victim. Seriously, WE GET IT. USPS messed up in your situation. This doesn't mean that your situation was handled by the book. The issue here is you continuously tell people that they cannot get their money back if a trade is lost, which simply isn't true. The truth is that YOU couldn't get your money back in YOUR specific situation.

 

[Monofletch]

Monofletch - FWIW, I just wanted to say that I, along with many others, appreciate your assistance. I've never dealt with you directly, but I've learned a lot from reading your posts. I've also learned a good amount about how you handle situations, and how you carry yourself. You're a solid dude who offers help for no reason other than to help others. Honestly, many of us really appreciate it.

The moral of the story here, as I see it, is this: Take the advice from the man with 20 years of experience working for USPS, as opposed to an angry customer with a single bad experience. Your trade can be insured, safely. It may take some legwork, but you can get the insurance money if it ever came to it. Just be prepared and have your paperwork all squared away, and you should be alright.

Just because there is one guy dedicated to spreading his bad experience, doesn't mean he's spewing the truth. knifehunt, we get it, you're angry. Feel free to tell your experience like you have. But that's all it is, a single experience. It doesn't mean that what you took from it is the law that everyone has to abide by. Oh, and if you want to add me to your ignore list because I'm not backing you wholeheartedly, feel free. With the way you've conducted yourself in this thread, I wouldn't want to deal with you anyway.

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[dkb45]

Knifehunt please stop derailing my thread. Getting angry and name calling will get this thread locked, and I will first turn to a mod to remove you. Keep on topic please.

 

[BBKoenigsegg]

Knifehunt please stop derailing my thread. Getting angry and name calling will get this thread locked, and I will first turn to a mod to remove you. Keep on topic please.

I think this answers your question, no?

I call BS! I have been with the post office a LONG time. You need 3 things to file a claim.

1- proof of mailing and insurance. The receipt that you got when you shipped it.
2- Proof of non delivery/damage. Which can be a written letter from the recipient or the proper form or now they can look up the GEO location of the delivery
3- proof of the items value. This is usually a receipt when you purchased it or sometimes a estimate from a shop will do.

If you have those three thing they can not deny you a claim. Try going to USPS.com/help/claims You can file claims on line too.

IF ANYONE HAS USPS QUESTIONS PLEASE SEND ME A PM

 

[robgmn]

I belong to a number of different forums and this thread exemplifies one (of many) common things that people believe in: that their personal experience defines reality and that that particular reality is in effect for everyone.

It can actually be unnerving when i deal with it on a professional level.

Kniffehunt, here's the real deal, take it or leave it:
If the aforementioned rules of filing a claim were in place and on paper at the time of your problem, you got screwed over by a witting/unwitting employee of the post office, NOT by "The US Post Office".
Had you presented a written copy of these rules (which you could have demanded from a worker at the Post Office), and asked them if they'd like an attorney to review it and your case, they most certainly would have considered all the facts and given you a refund IF a refund was due (the IF remains and IF until you can provide proof otherwise).

Denying a valid claim against loss of goods is theft from the customer. The USPS takes theft VERY seriously and would not abide an employee stealing from a customer.

Had you been improperly denied after meeting all of the written requirements of receiving a refund, you could very easily have run it up the chain of command and gotten the error corrected.
Your failure to have done that does NOT translate into your experience defining the reality of shipping, nor what will happen to anyone else who may encounter a similar situation.

You can get angry, you can insult people, you can post, block posts, read posts.
It's not however, going to change reality.