Insurance and trades

The best insurance in a trade is to do your homework on the person that you are about to deal with. Make sure they have a stake in the community they are in, get an idea of their personality, their attitude, how they communicate with others. If any of that gives you a bad feeling, listen to your gut and move on. Anything else is irrelevant. When one deal with strangers in a careless manner, expect the best but prepare for the worst.
 
RevDevil said:
The best insurance in a trade is to do your homework on the person that you are about to deal with. Make sure they have a stake in the community they are in, get an idea of their personality, their attitude, how they communicate with others. If any of that gives you a bad feeling, listen to your gut and move on. Anything else is irrelevant. When one deal with strangers in a careless manner, expect the best but prepare for the worst.
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No offense but that isn't what this thread is about, it's about the post office losing your stuff, homework can't prevent that.
 
The idea that a sales receipt has to be involved is ridiculous. Proving the value of the item is not. Thousands of packages a day are shipped which are not sales, especially with this whole Christmas thing going on right now. Sorry to say it Knifehunt but it looks like you were either missing paperwork such as the original shipping receipt which is required for a refund or adequate proof of value.
 
STAINLESS90 said:
The idea that a sales receipt has to be involved is ridiculous. Proving the value of the item is not. Thousands of packages a day are shipped which are not sales, especially with this whole Christmas thing going on right now. Sorry to say it Knifehunt but it looks like you were either missing paperwork such as the original shipping receipt which is required for a refund or adequate proof of value.
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You have no idea what you are talking about, period! I had my shipping receipt from the post office, signature confirmation receipt, and the original sales receipt when I originally purchased the item. I had everything to prove the value of the contents, yet they insisted on a receipt showing the recipient purchased the item I sent. Sorry to say, STAINLESS90.... but it looks like YOU are wrong.
 
?Knifehunt- from what I gather the locals would not even let you file a claim. Is this correct? If so, that seems improper to me. You should have been allowed to file and have it reviewed by experts in insurance .That is the least we deserve for our money. They then could pay it, reject it or ask for more info. In your case I can see them not paying the receipt value(depreciation), but nothing-no. While locals can muddle through the claims process, experts they are not(IMO)

Over the years I have read numerous threads and posts of people who felt they did not get a fair shake from USPS insurance. Many have stopped using it, feeling it is a waste of money. Some have gone to 3rd party insurance( which I am not well verse in) and seem to be happy with it.
 
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knifehunt said:
You have no idea what you are talking about, period! I had my shipping receipt from the post office, signature confirmation receipt, and the original sales receipt when I originally purchased the item. I had everything to prove the value of the contents, yet they insisted on a receipt showing the recipient purchased the item I sent. Sorry to say, STAINLESS90.... but it looks like YOU are wrong.
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Okay big guy lets try and settle down on the sugar this early in the morning.
From the Domestic Mail Manual:
S010 Indemnity Claims
2.5 Evidence of Insurance

For a claim involving insured, COD, registered, or Express Mail
service, the customer must present any of the following evidence
showing that the particular service was purchased:
a. The original mailing receipt issued at the time of mailing
(reproduced copies are not acceptable).
b. The wrapper showing the names and addresses of the sender and the
addressee and the proper mail endorsement, tag, or label showing that
the article was sent insured, COD, registered with postal insurance, or
Express Mail.
If only the wrapper is submitted, indemnity can be limited to $100
for insured, $50 for COD, $100 for registered mail, and $500 for
Express Mail.

2.6 Evidence of Value
The customer must submit acceptable evidence to establish the
cost or value of the article at the time it was mailed. (Other
evidence may be requested to help determine an accurate value.)
Examples of acceptable evidence are:
Sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable
dealer.
Customer's own statement describing the lost or damaged
article and including the date and place of purchase, the amount paid,
and whether new or used (only if a sales receipt or invoice is not
available). If the article is handmade, the statement must include the
price of the materials and labor used. The statement must describe the
article in enough detail to determine whether the value claimed is
accurate.
Picture from a catalog showing the value of a similar article
(only if a sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a
reputable dealer is not available). The date and place of purchase must
be included.
Paid repair bills; if the claim is for partial damage,
estimates of repair costs or appraisals from a reputable dealer. Repair
costs may not exceed the original purchase price.
Receipt or invoice for the costs incurred to buy a surety bond
required to reissue a lost item.
Receipt or invoice of costs incurred for the reconstruction of
nonnegotiable documents.

2.9 Proof of Loss
To file a claim, the sender must provide proof of loss of
insured or registered mail. Proof of loss is not required for COD or
Express Mail claims. Any one of these documents is acceptable:
A letter or statement from the addressee, dated at least 30 days
(15 days for registered mail) after the date that the article was
mailed, reporting that the addressee did not receive the article. The
statement or a copy of it must be attached to the claim.
The proper part of the claim Form 1000 completed and signed by
the addressee reporting that the article was not received.
A statement from the post office of address reporting that no
delivery record is on file. The sender can obtain this statement by
sending a written request to the post office of address with a check or
money order for an amount equivalent to the delivery record fee in
R900.23.0; this amount will be reimbursed if the claim is paid. The
request must include the names and addresses of the sender and
addressee, the insured or registered number, and the mailing date.
http://pe.usps.com/archive/pdf/dmmarchive1209/S010.pdf

These are the three legs of the proverbial USPS insurance claim tripod. You need one of each of these three to successfully file a claim. Did you try filing online? Because that's faster and more efficient. I'm sorry you personally had this one bad experience one time and didn't get it payed out but running around like chicken little screaming about how everyone is wrong and USPS will never pay is ridiculously laughable. Do like everyone else does and either deal with it or next time try a little harder because if every aspect of your story is true then you have three incompetent post offices.

knifehunt said:
Yes, I did contact the Postal Inspectors, and they did squat. They sent a form to the person I traded with, and myself and that was it. I contacted them several time, and they just blew me off. They could not care less about the little guy. I know we have folks here who used to work for the Postal Service, and swear differently, but that has not been my experience with more than one Post Office, and the Postal Inspectors. As far as I'm concerned, they take your money and tell you to pound tar when you try to file a claim.
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I am also curious what this form was because I am guessing it is the aforementioned form from section 2.9 which is the proof of loss form. Did you have that when you went into the first three post offices, because if you did not that's one leg missing and that explains in a neat little package why you didn't get your claim payed.

EDIT: Rev I apologize in advance for the huge wall of text and borderline bickering.
 
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knifehunt said:
Yes I had my original receipt from the manufacturer. They would not accept it. Their reasoning was that I could not prove that is what I sent. They said had it been an actual sale with a receipt, I could have collected on a claim. I went to the two other Post Offices in town, and was told the exact same thing... I even spoke with the Postmaster, and got the same story. Needless to say, this subject really strikes a nerve, and want folks to know that it is not as cut and dry as folks may think.
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I call BS! I have been with the post office a LONG time. You need 3 things to file a claim.

1- proof of mailing and insurance. The receipt that you got when you shipped it.
2- Proof of non delivery/damage. Which can be a written letter from the recipient or the proper form or now they can look up the GEO location of the delivery
3- proof of the items value. This is usually a receipt when you purchased it or sometimes a estimate from a shop will do.

If you have those three thing they can not deny you a claim. Try going to USPS.com/help/claims You can file claims on line too.

IF ANYONE HAS USPS QUESTIONS PLEASE SEND ME A PM
 
Monofletch said:
I call BS! I have been with the post office a LONG time. You need 3 things to file a claim.

1- proof of mailing and insurance. The receipt that you got when you shipped it.
2- Proof of non delivery/damage. Which can be a written letter from the recipient or the proper form or now they can look up the GEO location of the delivery
3- proof of the items value. This is usually a receipt when you purchased it or sometimes a estimate from a shop will do.

If you have those three thing they can not deny you a claim. Try going to USPS.com/help/claims You can file claims on line too.

IF ANYONE HAS USPS QUESTIONS PLEASE SEND ME A PM
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Thank you for chiming in friendly neighborhood postman.:thumbup:
 
I really don't give a rats rear you (Monofletch or STAINLESS90) have to say... I know how I was treated and wast told by three different Post Offices in my town. That was my experience, and that's that!

Monofletch, I don't give two #$@&* how long you have been with the USPS, that is what I was told by my local Postal service. DO NOT call me a liar!
 
knifehunt said:
I really don't give a rats rear you (Monofletch or STAINLESS90) have to say... I know how I was treated and wast told by three different Post Offices in my town. That was my experience, and that's that!

Monofletch, I don't give two #$@&* how long you have been with the USPS, that is what I was told by my local Postal service. DO NOT call me a liar!
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You still didn't answer my question, what were the two forms you and the recipient received from the postal inspector?
 
STAINLESS90 said:
You still didn't answer my question, what were the two forms you and the recipient received from the postal inspector?
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It was 3 years ago and I do not know what the forms were. They did come from some part of the postal service in California, and I live on the east coast and so did the recipient. As far as I'm concerned... the postal service is as dishonest as the media.
 
knifehunt said:
It was 3 years ago and I do not know what the forms were. They did come from some part of the postal service in California, and I live on the east coast and so did the recipient. As far as I'm concerned... the postal service is as dishonest as the media.
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Did you both fill them out and return them?
 
knifehunt said:
You have a lot of questions, are going to my money for me?
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\
You came in here with a lot of details on a three year old story but as soon as your asked a pretty key question everything is suddenly fuzzy. Something about this whole story doesn't make sense, mainly how you are sidestepping this question. Next step is you will feign outrage that I dare question you and then you will either claim to put me on ignore or claim to leave this terrible thread. Now that I've called you out on it though you can still do all those things but will look like you were wrong, or you could just answer the simple question if you were so wronged by the post office and prove how stupid I am.
 
STAINLESS90 said:
\
You came in here with a lot of details on a three year old story but as soon as your asked a pretty key question everything is suddenly fuzzy. Something about this whole story doesn't make sense, mainly how you are sidestepping this question. Next step is you will feign outrage that I dare question you and then you will either claim to put me on ignore or claim to leave this terrible thread. Now that I've called you out on it though you can still do all those things but will look like you were wrong, or you could just answer the simple question if you were so wronged by the post office and prove how stupid I am.
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I do not need to prove anything to you sweetheart... Nothing is suddenly fuzzy other then the name of a form. One more to add to my ignore list. Good night, Irene.
 
I'm just glad that this huge fraud that's being perpetrated on the public has been exposed...one person claims to have had a bad experience with a USPS insurance claim and that is supposed to be proof of some sort of grand conspiracy.

There are literally tens of millions of postal packages moving around at any one time, the idea that any of them that aren't direct sales transactions are somehow uninsurable is just laughable.

Off to the ignore list I guess..l
 
This is how insurance works whether you are dealing with USPS, UPS, FexEx, etc:

- Whoever purchases the insurance has entered into a contract with the insurance carrier and is called the insured.
- The insurance only covers the insured.
- If the item is lost or damaged, only the insured can file a claim for reimbursement.
- The insurance only covers the fair market value of the lost/damaged item, so if you purchase a million dollars worth of insurance on an item that is only worth $100, the most you will be able to collect is $100 plus the postal fees.
- In order to obtain reimbursement for the lost/damaged item, you, the insured, must prove that you possessed the lost/damaged item (receipt, photos, etc.) and you must prove the value of the item. Collectible items do not necessarily depreciate over time and might even appreciate, so don't let the insurance adjuster bullshit you about that.
- Any shipper other than USPS will probably settle your claim in a timely manner because they don't want to expose themselves to a bad faith lawsuit which would expose them to punitive damages in addition to what the item is worth. In many jurisdictions there is no limit on the dollar amount of punitive damage awards.
- If you are dealing with USPS insurance, be ready to jump through a bunch of hoops and wait a long time to settle your claim. USPS' claims system is purposefully set up to frustrate you and exhaust you into giving up and walking away. USPS has it set up that way because, being a federal agency, they are protected from lawsuits for lost/damaged packages under Sovereign Immunity. The Federal Tort Claims Act merely states that USPS has to treat you in a fair manner when handling your claim; "fair" is not in USPS' vocabulary. If USPS gives you the runaround, your best bet is to call the Postmaster General's office and threaten to contact your Congressman and formally request a Congressional Inquiry; that worked for me. Better yet, don't ship via USPS.

Also, under the law, if the item you sold and sent is lost/damaged, it is your problem, not the buyer's. Until the buyer receives the item in the condition he paid for, you, the seller, still own the item. So if the item is lost or damaged, you, the seller, have a duty to immediately reimburse the buyer in full and it is up to you, the seller, to pursue any insurance claim.
 
knifehunt said:
I really don't give a rats rear you (Monofletch or STAINLESS90) have to say... I know how I was treated and wast told by three different Post Offices in my town. That was my experience, and that's that!

Monofletch, I don't give two #$@&* how long you have been with the USPS, that is what I was told by my local Postal service. DO NOT call me a liar!
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I didn't call you a liar. I chime in on your thread to help with your 3 year old problem and I get crapped on? 20+ years dealing with people and postal problems and I'm the jackass?
I process claims, find lost parcels, and provide customer service on a daily basis. I know my job.

I will be happy to submit the proper forms to be on your ignore list, sir.
 
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