Intentionally Not Sharp?

O

okbohn

Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
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I posted this elsewhere but no bites....

I heard that there was a time when pocket knife manufacturers intentionally left knives dull so that the end user could sharpen. Does anyone know it is true? It seemed a bit far fetched to me.
 
Pretty sure Case must be doing that now.

Picked up a Russlock, dull as a butter knife right out of the box
 
Hi Derrick,

Sorry for the slow reply in the other thread, I'm having problems with my internet connection, but have posted this there:

Jack Black said:
Personally, I’ve never heard that about slipjoints. Even in the past, when most folk carried a knife everyday, I really don’t think the majority of them were capable of doing a good job of sharpening them. I come across too many old knives that have been dreadfully treated, with terrible badly-ground edges, to think otherwise. In the past, I know in Sheffield (and I’m sure elsewhere), Italian gentlemen turned up with bicycle-powered grinding wheels to sharpen knives for a few pennies, while travelling tinkers would sharpen knives on the kerbstone or front door-step. More commonly, knives were passed between friends and relatives for someone to take into work, where they had access to a grindstone, but probably limited skills in using it. I think that a man with a good set of stones, who could sharpen his knives well, was the exception in the past, just as today.
Click to expand...

Jack
 
Okapi knives used to come unsharped, don't know about now?
Makes sense, maybe cutlers could offer knives unsharpened, and charge a little more for a sharpened product, would be a disaster for you distributors.

Pete
 
This is something that a lot of premium Japanese knife makers will do. The idea is that the blade is made of only a limited amount of steel, why not let the end user dictate how 100% of that steel is used? This is especially so when you're paying a premium for the steel or it is a specialty knife that you have a specific intention in mind (ie obtuse for heavy use, fine for light tasks, etc).
 
okbohn said:
I heard that there was a time when pocket knife manufacturers intentionally left knives dull so that the end user could sharpen. Does anyone know it is true? It seemed a bit far fetched to me.
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To me, that always sounded like an excuse people make to defend their favorite makers of dull knives...
 
somber said:
This is something that a lot of premium Japanese knife makers will do. The idea is that the blade is made of only a limited amount of steel, why not let the end user dictate how 100% of that steel is used? This is especially so when you're paying a premium for the steel or it is a specialty knife that you have a specific intention in mind (ie obtuse for heavy use, fine for light tasks, etc).
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Yeah--I heard that about the Japanese makers. I had heard it many years ago specifically about pocket knives.

Dave Shirley (of Northwoods and Scagel fame) told me, "People don't want sharp pocket knives...they will cut themselves." I told him I thought he was nuts. :)
 
okbohn said:
I posted this elsewhere but no bites....

I heard that there was a time when pocket knife manufacturers intentionally left knives dull so that the end user could sharpen. Does anyone know it is true? It seemed a bit far fetched to me.
Click to expand...

Whether it's intentional or not, it may as well be.

It occurred to me, that of the older knives (1980s going back into the '60s, at least) I've purchased in 'As New' or 'New Old Stock' condition, absolutely none of them came with edge grinds that most of us would tolerate today. Very, very narrow bevels at the edge, almost as seen in dedicated 'display knives' that look nice, but aren't even functionally sharp. The absolutely sharpest blade I own today started it's life in no such condition. I don't worry about it, because in spite of the lack of a realistic bevel on it when I purchased it, it did eventually far exceed expectations after re-bevelling and fine-tuning, thanks to the quality of the steel and heat treat in that 'dull' blade.

To some extent, it seems almost appropriate that some old classics should be set up from the beginning, to greatly reward owners and users who're willing to put the work into them. :)


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
To some extent, it seems almost appropriate that some old classics should be set up from the beginning, to greatly reward owners and users who're willing to put the work into them. :)


David
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You know, I actually feel that way about all the knives I buy. I don't complain about factory edges just because I like making a knife mine. :)
 
Cisco Kid said:
To me, that always sounded like an excuse people make to defend their favorite makers of dull knives...
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Exactly.

Obsessed with Edges said:
Whether it's intentional or not, it may as well be.
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True, unfortunately.

I've never understood why some view new, high quality pocket knives with dull edges as acceptable, just because it's a pocket knife. A knife is a tool, and I expect a tool - especially an expensive tool, to come ready to use. I may still fine tune it a little bit, strop it to my satisfaction, whatever - but a knife should be shipped sharp, period.

A knife that is sharp upon arrival is certainly the standard for high-end fixed blade knives, and rightly so. Why there should be a different standard/expectation for high end pocket knives makes no sense to me.

And I don't believe for a minute that it has anything to do with "letting the user profile the knife how they would like." :rolleyes:
 
I can understand an obtuse edge, which can be refined to suit the new owner. My grandfather the machinist never left a knife dull and my other grandfather the jeweler who supplied me with pocketknives, also knew knives are for cutting.

It was up to me to watch what I was cutting. :D

Edit to add: I agree with Smithhammer that the knife should be sharp, if only to assure the buyer that the manufacturer can provide an even bevel for him to work with. I am thinking of a jackknife with a big clip and small pen. I will want the clip sharp but durable and the pen a razor edge. That should only take a quick touchup of the original grind.
 
okbohn said:
I posted this elsewhere but no bites....

I heard that there was a time when pocket knife manufacturers intentionally left knives dull so that the end user could sharpen. Does anyone know it is true? It seemed a bit far fetched to me.
Click to expand...


I've heard something similar, although I can't authenticate it.

What I heard was that it "was common practice to produce a knife with an obtuse edge." The reason, I was told, was to cut down on CS issues due to purchasers abusing the knife and returning them under warranty when the edge folded or chipped. Once the original grind had been changed by the owner, warranty regarding the edge could be explained and the knife returned for sharpening, but not refund.

Again, I don't know if this is true, but thought it might spark another member here who might be able to confirm or deny it.
 
bonky said:
I've heard something similar, although I can't authenticate it.

What I heard was that it "was common practice to produce a knife with an obtuse edge." The reason, I was told, was to cut down on CS issues due to purchasers abusing the knife and returning them under warranty when the edge folded or chipped. Once the original grind had been changed by the owner, warranty regarding the edge could be explained and the knife returned for sharpening, but not refund.

Again, I don't know if this is true, but thought it might spark another member here who might be able to confirm or deny it.
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That would be clever indeed. Possibly too clever to be true. I have been messing around with knives for 40 years and even years ago, when Case was unassailably great and Old-Timers were in every hardware store, my expectation was to have to at least clean up a factory edge. A Kershaw Leek was the first scary sharp factory edge I encountered (granted I have kind of laid off the knife accumulation habit for a while). I still haven't messed with that edge much because it is so acute yet toothy I am afraid to. "Factory edge" was a term of contempt until the last decade or so.
 
Below quoted from another forum as written by Mike Stewart (had not heard this until this).
--------------------------
I don't want to make excuses for Bill and his staff but Heirloom/Collector grade slip joints are notorious for not being sharp from the factory.
the old Time Collectors actually preferred them unsharpened or with just barely a hint of a bevel.
They would then NEVER sharpen them themselves and the knife would maintain the highest collector value
"Brand New - In The Box - Unsharpened"
Keep in mind that I wholeheartedly disagree with this kind of thing but it is a fact.
Collector Grade Slip Joints were never know for being sharp.

Mike..............
----------------------------
 
That would actually be a nice option for some knives. I know that people spend some time reprofiling edges to better fit their wants or uses, so why not just do it from a fresh start?
 
okbohn said:
I posted this elsewhere but no bites....

I heard that there was a time when pocket knife manufacturers intentionally left knives dull so that the end user could sharpen. Does anyone know it is true? It seemed a bit far fetched to me.
Click to expand...

I know for sure that axes still can come unsharpened
Where it is up to the user to sharpen the edge
 
okbohn said:
Yeah--I heard that about the Japanese makers. I had heard it many years ago specifically about pocket knives.

Dave Shirley (of Northwoods and Scagel fame) told me, "People don't want sharp pocket knives...they will cut themselves." I told him I thought he was nuts. :)
Click to expand...

So Queen was way ahead of the curve :D
 
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