Is a Busse Worth it?

ummm... I am fairly regular here although I generally remain quite quiet
I've read this whole thread and I guess I feel the need to speak up...


As far as only listening to only the people who own Busse(kin)...As suggested by a Busse(kin) owner...;) I think we all need to remember that human psycology is such that this would basically ensure the OP will get a skewed responce. The thing is, the more people spend on X, the more the feel the need to justify that expense. I think we all agree many Busse(kin) are fairly expensive (mine were) hence the inner need to defend one's choice to buy one, or many, can be quite strong.
I think the fact remains, Busse(kin) make very good knives. However, one should remember that there is no such thing as an invincible/undamagable knife. After owning and using the Busse(kin) I have purchased I have come to the conclussion that they are knives that are very reliable and will not break under normal conditions. However, the things that are unforseen that will damage other good quality knives will damage Busse(kin) just as readily.
Now, when I have done exactly this sort of thing I must emphasis all the knives I have sent in because of damage were readily replaced in a timely mannor and with the utmost politeness and respect from the CS at all the Busse(kin) companies. Their warenties are fantastic and basically unconditional.
So for me now, a life time warrentee is a lifetime warentee. They are great and I love getting them, but I can't see paying huge money for them. Now and in the future when I am going to put down the kind of money for a knife required to purchase Busse(kin) it is going to a custom maker.
To the OP My message (opinion) is...
Busse(kin) make great knives but they do not make light sabers, their blades can be damaged in simmilar ways as other knives. That said, in my experience Busse(kin) also will basicly never break in half and leave you with a completely useless knife. They also have a fantastic warrentee and great CS. However, you should remember, for Busse(kin) prices you can get a custom made knife from many different makers so you really should shop around and make sure you are buying the knife because you think it is exactly what you want/need and not because of the label on it
Again this is Only my personal opinion and experience.
I am not trying to say any thing disparaging about Busse(kin) or the people who buy or have bought Busse(kin) (I am one as well) There is NO NEED to get upset or defensive about anything I have stated but please feel free to state your own opinion :)
 
Is a Busse worth it? I once wondered about that myself, so I decided to test a "combat grade" Fusion Battle Mistress (unscientifically) by handing it over to 2 day-laborer guys that I hired to clear out my very overgrown property a few summers ago when I saw that the only tools they had brought for the job was a pair of crappy hedge trimmers and 2 rakes. My house is in one of those sub-division type areas where there's about 1-2 inches of topsoil max, and then that crappy construction dirt mixed in with all sorts of pebbles & rocks, plus the landscape beds themselves have some big rocks that were pretty much hidden by all the weeds and growth... They worked for about 9 hours and pretty much stuck with using the FBM to clear everything out before raking it all up into piles for removal. They hacked, chopped, dug, & scraped with that knife all day, and I heard them strike a few of those larger rocks. When they were done, I was expecting major damage... These guys had no idea what the knife cost, and I didn't tell them. What I did tell them was to use it any way they needed to get the job done.

When the day was over, they were worn out, the property looked a damn sight better, and the knife was back in my hands. Was there damage? Yes. Major damage? No, not really, and nothing that I wasn't able to fix, myself.

Here's the pix.

Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-1.jpg


There were quite a few dents and rolls to the edge (the close-ups are over the affected edge area. the rest of the blade's edge towards the handle was unaffected)...
Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-3.jpg

Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-2.jpg


But really, the worst that they managed to do was sheer off about 1/16th of the tip against a rock...
Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-4.jpg


I washed it off and snapped 2 more pix...

Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-After-A.jpg
Mad_CGFBM_Experiment-After-B.jpg


Now most of this steeled out rather well, and after that I re-worked the edge with an Apex Edge-Pro...

FBM_New-Edge.jpg

FBM_New-Edge3.jpg


Basically, I was and still am very pleased with its performance, and I think that it held up very well in the hands of 2 men who never heard of Busse, and wouldn't have cared less. Like I said, I never mentioned its cost, nor did they ask, and I didn't want them to coddle it. It took me much less time to get it back into good shape with a great edge than I expected it to take. Like VTguy said, they ain't lightsabers, and like any other knife, It can also be damaged by unforeseen things. The basic rule that applies to all knives is that when it strikes something harder than itself with enough force, it will sustain damage whether it be a roll, dent, chip, crack, or break... Personally, I'd rather take dent & roll over chipping out or maybe cracking and God forbid, an out & out break.

Yes, there was some damage, but nothing that I couldn't fix (and I suck at sharpening knives, even with the Edge-Pro). Can any other Maker's knife handle the same? I believe so as there are other fine production knife companies and MANY great custom knifemakers out there, but I haven't put any other's knives through the wringer...yet! Personally, this made a believer out of me that Busse knives can take a beating, and its warranty sure made handing it over all that much easier. So, yes, in my opinion, I feel that they are worth it, but I'm lucky to be able to afford them, and everything is relative.

Maybe next time, I'll hand over my Seigle Truck Chopper and start a new addiction to another Maker's knives... :)

As for the OP... For your first, if I were in your shoes, I'd buy a knife with an outstanding warranty like Busse or RAT has (and I believe that there are others, both custom & production with great warranties), because you'll really only need to buy one and not worry about how ya use it... Of course, if you're a knife knut like many of us here , ONE isn't really in our vocabulary when it comes to knives!

Good Hunting, and I hope that you are completely happy with your choice, no matter what you decide to get. :thumbup:
 
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:thumbup: Great thread without flame wars, keep it going.

My personal opinion about Busse is that they are nor worth the additional money, and in this case I mean Busse Combat because their cheaper sister companies (Rats & Dogs) have very attractive prices. But if one buys one or not is in the end a personal decision, are the knives good? Yes, without a doubt their knives will hold whatever you throw at them.

What I don't like about them:
1. Most are simply too thick to be good cutting tools. It is a trademark but I want my knife to be a good compromise between weight, size and usability.
2. The whole marketing thing about the so secret steel. Frankly if they had found the holy grail of steel making they wouldn't be making knives. One can assume that it is a low carbon steel (hence the rust resistance) with a good heat treat. Is it special, well it does roll on ocasions.
3. The forum, sorry all the aahhhs and oohhhs when a new knife comes out puts me off. How about comments on how to use the knife in question best and comments on how to improve the usability and not the color of the scale. For example when the spyderco caspian came out you had immediate feedback from users that the ring was too small for cold water diving. Guess somebody actually used it.

What I like:
1. Warranty
2. ResC handles first in the basics, then in some rats and know used by Scrapyard. This handle material is great for users.
3. You can resell them if you don't like them with barely any value loss even if it was used.

What I would like them to do:
Bring out the Rat Trap 2. The original folder is fantastic.
 
Definition of "worth it" varies from person to person.

This thread is case in point.

Here's how to break it down:

Does it do what you want it to?

Are you satisified with it?

Are you comfortable with the price tag enough, that you don't have to justify it to anybody?

If you can answer all three with a "yes"...then it was well worth it to you, and that's all the f--k that matters.

If you want it and you got the dough to pony up for it, get it. You can always resell it to somebody in the Bacon Cult.

Some days my Mora is well worth it, some days my BK-9 is well worth it and some days my SAK is well worth it (actually, every day my SAK is well worth it). Lots of people consider them "cheap" and "low end", but if it works and does the shit I ask one to do on my little "outings" without shattering into a milliondy-nine pieces...I'm sassified.
 
Merost said:
As an avid knife guy and avid survival student I am always trying to improve my survival kit. I have been in search of MY ideal survival knife. I'm a big fan of the RC-5 and RC-3, and would like to own a Fallkniven someday. I also really like the Busse SAR4, but they around $400. I don't know anyone who owns a Busse so I don't have a first hand account of how good the INFI steel is or how nice these knives are in person.

My question is.....is a Busse, used as a surival knife, worth it? What is your opinion?
Click to expand...

My opinion is that Busse's and Infi as a steel is best applied and used in their larger knives as a "chopping" knife. They seem to be hardened to around 56Rc and the steel sharpens easily and the benefit of it rolling and not chipping comes to the fore in this application.

For a smaller blade which you want to cut and slice with I actually prefer a steel at a higher Rc hardness as the edge lasts longer but does take more time to sharpen. My best knives in the 4 to 5 inch category are hardened to Rc62 and this seems to be the best heat treatment for edge retention and being able to take a shallow grind/very sharp edge. Steels that work well at this hardness and knives made to this level are probably just as expensive or even more expensive. Mine are dearer than comparable Busse's but they do work better in this size of knife.

It depends on what type of knife you are looking for and would use. I have a SAR4 LE and find it a bit too handle heavy but the design is a good one for enabling a rearward grip to maximise the chopping ability of the 5 inch blade. It has good chopping ability for such a small knife.

I also have a Fallkniven Idun in Cowry X and whilst this knife has not been used I have another knife in this steel done by Hattori ( who also makes the Cowry X Idun under contract ) which has a 5 inch blade and this is my best performing "small knife"....and the one I am most likely to have with me as it carry's light and is the knife I use the most...but it is a very expensive knife....and value for money wise is not what others would consider a user...more of a collector's knife due to the price...but I own and use a lot of knives and this steel is the best of what I have for that size of knife.

How much you spend on a knife is a personal thing and definately the extra cost is not proportionate to performance....but the thing to remember is that there is no perfect steel for all sizes of knife...some are better at different tasks...if you want a 4 to 5 inch survival knife....my thoughts are that the steels done to a Rc 62 are better.

At 7-8 inch blades and above Infi is certainly worth it to me...I have a fair number of their knives and use them well....my most used Busse is probably my NMFBM...it is what I put in my Bergan for heavy use.
 
Jaxx, that's a great way to get an unbiased review....not knowing the cost or origin of the knife. :thumbup:

I have a busse - an HG55. I like it a lot, and use it whenever I can. I haven't really gotten into a cost-benefit analysis with it, but I like it. I can't afford another one for a long, long time, but I trust that the HG55 won't need replacing anytime soon. I certainly don't recommend it to friends who are looking for a good outdoor fixed blade, but for the afi, I think it's a cool toy.

Also, the Bark River Mikro Canadian is a great little knife :)
 
Speaking to some makers who have the ability to test the Rc hardness I heard that Rc 55/56 was what they had found on their Busse's...I will get some of mine checked though and report back...
 
I just wanted to add one thought...

Folks keep bringing the SwampRat and ScrapYard knives into the discussion. The vast majority of these knives are not INFI and they shouldn't be considered as "a less expensive Busse" in the context of the discussion. And, the OP asked if a Busse was worth it, not a Swamp Rat or ScrapYard.

The INFI steel and complex heat treat are what make Busse knives Busses. I dearly love my old Swamp Rat Camp Tramp, but it's certainly no Battle Mistress.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
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desmobob said:
I just wanted to add one thought...

Folks keep bringing the SwampRat and ScrapYard knives into the discussion. The vast majority of these knives are not INFI and they shouldn't be considered as "a less expensive Busse" in the context of the discussion.

The INFI steel and complex heat treat are what make Busse knives Busses. I dearly love my old Swamp Rat Camp Tramp, but it's certainly no Battle Mistress.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
Click to expand...

They should be as they are quality made infi or not. Show us some pics of your well used infi blades in action.

Skam
 
bla bla bla bla bla some people like em some people don't. If you liek em buy em if you dont like em dont buy em. certain knives work for some but not for other. Its all personal choice and at the end of the day does it really matter what knife you have? be glad we all are still able to use knives.

its just a knife, it doesn't have magical properties that will guarantee your survival, its just a hunk of steel that cuts and shops, another tool in the wilderness or battle kit. Knives shouldn't be revered and talked about in hushed tones, they are not gods or hero's, its just a knife.

less pissing, more chopping/slicing and hiking!
 
BarberFobic1992 said:
It would really depend who you asked. For my personal tastes and uses, I cannot justify that kind of dough for somthing that will only marginally out-perform a $6 tramontina machete. I think it was Pict that said you get the first 80% of the function with the first 20% of the cost.

Now, I will wait for the Busse folks to yell at me.

Edited to add: If you are looking for extreme durability, I think a Fallkniven would do well for you. I cant imagine anything else being any noticable amount tougher than laminated VG-10. Plus, a Fallkniven will come with a better grind.

But, to each his own.
Click to expand...
You have to watch the edge on a Fallkniven. They edge is brittle as hell.
I't's still my favorite production blade.
 
desmobob said:
I just wanted to add one thought...

Folks keep bringing the SwampRat and ScrapYard knives into the discussion. The vast majority of these knives are not INFI and they shouldn't be considered as "a less expensive Busse" in the context of the discussion. And, the OP asked if a Busse was worth it, not a Swamp Rat or ScrapYard.

The INFI steel and complex heat treat are what make Busse knives Busses. I dearly love my old Swamp Rat Camp Tramp, but it's certainly no Battle Mistress.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
Click to expand...

Your opinion. If you think INFI is some kind of magic mojo that makes a Busse a Busse then you can go with that. Personally, I give Busse a lot more credit than that. Nobody can dispute the close linkages between Jerry's operation and those of scrapyard and swamprat. Its a family business and the names simply designate different product lines. It would be like claiming byrd knives have nothing to do with spyderco.

Is Busse worth it - if you restrict that the actual Busse line - to me then answer is no. I'm not convinced that fit and finish of Busse is really that much better than swamprat and I sure as heck don't buy into the mystique that INFI has to offer. If you apply the question to Bussekin knives as a whole, then sure I think they are worth it. They make great products at a price that I can digest. Hell, I'll go beyond saying they are worth it. I'll endorse them!

The clarification is worth noting, more so to indicate that Busse knives don't necessarily have to draw a line in the sand as orders originating from Busse Combat. The company and its affiliates have a lot to offer to many different folks. The OP didn't start off wih the line is the SAR4 worth it? But that was the original question asked. Threads evolve faster than the influenza virus and it twists and turns with that. Nobody has control over where a thread goes except for locking it. That is the nature of the forums!
 
I was skeptical of Busse knives and thought the HOGS were nuts. Then... I got a Busse knife.
The HOGS are nuts :D and Busse knives are more than worth it!!
 
To me they're worth every dime.

So yes

Jerry did an outstanding job in the development and manufacturing process of INFI, thank you Jerry.

INFI has performed as advertised for me and the QC is second to none. I haven't had to use the warranty but have dealt with the Busse service department and have found them as dependable as the product they sell, which is OUTSTANDING.:thumbup:

The way I see it, there is a lot of INFI out there and it gets used and abused by people that will do things with their knives that I wouldn't think of and their INFI is still going. It's a peace of mind thing for me and I'm willing to pay for that.
 
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There you go. My Mora is also worth every dime. If a knife does what you ask of it and you got your money's worth, all is well.:thumbup:
 
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