Is a Busse Worth it?

Dannyboy Leather said:
Years of flying for a number of mountain and wilderness SAR organizations (over 100 missions with state, federal, county), I learned a lot about survival by just looking at a number of sad facts. In my experience, overall, the victims that I (we) located, mostly DID NOT lack the correct and quality, sometimes "required" survival equipment; they lacked the skills to use what equipment they had! I clearly remember one entire family (mom, dad, two young children), that died from exposure for absolutely no reason from what I could see by inspecting their survival kit. Mom and dad had all they needed, and then some, to build a warming fire, shelter, first aid, hydration, signaling, you name it. According to family members, dad "lacked the skills to use what he had." This story happened time again during my time with SAR.
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I don't think this point can be over-stressed. I just don't see the reason for any condescending tones (not saying you did that, only that I've read many examples of it from others) about whether someone prefers one brand over another. I think many people who form these positions are doing so from the bias that they can't afford it or personally justify the cost. But personal justification does not equal a law that applies across the board and I think many folks don't realize that when they make snide remarks about what someone else spends on a knife.

To be fair though, from what I've read the extra strength from INFI really doesn't seem to be the difference between life and death in at least a large majority of cases. Whether that .000032% (or whatever the number is) matters is going to come down to personal justification.
 
Busses are very fine knives with an incomparble steel, INFI. Obviously they are worth the asking price to many users and collectors. I own several. It is kind of like a Rolex. No watch is worth what those cost to me. But as a long time knife user and collector, I had to have a few Busses. Yes, a cheap machete can chop as well as a Battle Mistress. And a Timex can keep time as well as a Rolex, too. We live in a market based economy. Sales determine the value of anything. I also appreciate those knives that perform well that are not terribly expensive. Mora comes to mind. Are Busses worth it? To some buyers the answer is yes.
 
Once I find my grail knife, I will probably unload quite a few of my Busses. But I'm totally drinking the kool aid until then.:D

The Burt Foster blade in my avatar is pretty close to being it, though.
 
t1mpani said:
Many excellent points here on both sides---also a lot of crap.

Unfortunately, all of it taken together adds up to absolutely nothing. What you want or don't want will be the deciding factor at the end of the day....

[rest of quote removed for brevity... see original post]
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Very well put... excellent contribution. Thanks for taking the time :)
 
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Just my $.02

Having broken my share of knives, including K-Bar's, etc., for me
busse's are worth it. Mind you; I've been given a couple of Busse
knives(!?!!), and have only bought one; a SAR Warden (which I
have since sold). Not sure I could have afforded Busse, but having
used/abused them there is no question I would figure out a way to
finance Busse purchases now. I am well-and-truly ruined.

Having absolute confidence in what I consider a critical hunk of SAR
gear is difficult to put a price on - for me Busse delivers on that.

It is amazing to me too the inroads Busse-Kin has made in our regional
SAR community - and they're volunteers!
From what I can tell, these are all performance-based purchases, many
have never even tasted the Cool Aid...

For us gear never has been a substitute for skills, ability and training.

But, in the interest of full disclosure; I've come to enjoy the 'parlor-trick'
gratuitous use to shock the sheeple :o !!

Your mileage may vary (mine does).

Best,
8
 
I've certainly thought about them a few times, But I just can't justify the price, especially when I can find what Im looking for in a knife at $10 a pop with mora stamped on it.

Now thats not to say I dont like nice knives, and If I had the money, I would certainly own one. But I wouldn't save up to buy one. I have used RAT, becker, coldsteel, buck, gerber, mora, fiskars, kershaw and many many more, and they all have done what I've ecpected from them.

Right now, a Grohmann #3, mini wetterlings, fiskars saw and a multitool sometimes feels like too much and certain covers everything for me. When Im training others in wilderness survival, or just showing a family member or friend some fun thing to try in the woods I have never felt the need to spend $400 bucks on a knife that Im going to use in the middle of nowhere. Im sure they will hold up fine, they look nice and carry a great warrenty, but I have only broken a few tools in my time, all of those breaks were %100 my fault.
 
Mentor said:
There seems to be disagreement as to whether these knives are worth their price tags. That's a personal and subjective question, and everyone has the right to make his or her own decision. The OP asked for opinions on this, and people have weighed in. There you have it.

All the best,

- Mike
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Exactly! He asked for opinions. Most gave theirs, and lots of others got their panties in a bunch because they didn't agree with other peoples' opinions.

Some of them remind me of Aesop's "The Fox and the Grapes." ;)


Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
dawsonbob said:
I've heard it said that some folks have more dollars than sense. As I've said before, I don't believe a Busse will do anything a Becker won't. If you have that kind of money, and buy into the Busse mystique, then, by all means, go for it. Actually, I can understand wanting something just because it's neat or beautiful — and being willing to pay extra for it. I'd just as soon stake my life on a Becker though: it cuts, it pry's, it's tough ... and it comes with a sheath.
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Will a becker chop? Yes. Will a Becker pry or resist breaking better than a similar thickness Busse knife?........not on your life.

www.knifetests.com Watch a few of the video's with the Becker destruction test. Then watch the destruction test with the skinny ash. Much thinner piece of steel, insane tough.

Will I ever do that crazy stuff to any of my knives? From cheap to more expensive like my Busse knives, I have never, and don't think I will ever do anything that dumb with my knives.

I do treat the Busse's rougher than my other knives. I batton the crap out of them, even the skinnies, and never worry about breaking. If they do, I just smile and contact the Boss Man. They have all kinds of designs that I love. Tons of different styles.

When damaged, the edges seem to be much easier to restore than other steels I have damaged. The steel tends to roll rather than chip. I have chipped edges on many knives before and they are much harder to repair than Infi.

Are they worth the price? I am pretty poor, and I think they are. Would I ever buy one on credit, or go into debt to own tons of them? No.

Also, I still look at many many many other makers both production and custom that I lust over.
 
Bigfattyt said:
I do treat the Busse's rougher than my other knives. I batton the crap out of them, even the skinnies, and never worry about breaking. If they do, I just smile and contact the Boss Man.
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To be fair, Busse used to have the best warranty possible. Now they still have one of the best, but others have caught up with them and match them.

Ratcutlery offers the same no holds bar replacement policy and at a much cheaper price. Arguably the RC-warranty is better as it doesn't have the same modded/void warranty conditions that Busse provides. For example, Horndog when he bought his RC-4 when they first came available, could only get one in serrated. He ground off the serrations making a really cool re-curve RC-4. Somebody posted up to Jeff Randall asking if the knife was still covered and Jeff said yes. The only thing they exclude replacement is on rusting due to lack of maintenance because idiots want to have their knife replaced because of a 0.3 mm speck on the surface formed on the edge. Also, I'm sure as time goes on and more idiots decide to screw-over RC with bogus warranty claims they will have to tighten up their policy.

Still, I think you can justify your Busse cost simply on looks, durability and performance. Both my scrapyards I modded to suit my needs. My SOD apparently looks like a camp tramp now that I removed the guard and ramp. From what I'm told it is no longer covered by warranty. That doesn't bother me much. I like my modded knives much better than the original and I have enough faith in their durability that it won't change how I use this knife even though it is no longer covered. Of course if it ever breaks, I'll still bitch and complain and post a thread about it, but I won't demand a replacement :D I doubt it will ever break though - it's already been through hell.
 
:rolleyes:Me?

I'm just glad I came across BladeForums, and found so many outstanding knives by outstanding makers who stand behind their products.

Busse(kin), R.A.T., HI, Fiddleback, Horton, Oupa, Stomper ... Menefee, Magnusson, Davison, Bose ... on and on and on.:D

I just laugh at all the posts and threads discussing "this is better than that." They are all good -- each in their own way.

And each of us gets to make up his or her own mind.

I love it.
 
kgd said:
To be fair, Busse used to have the best warranty possible. Now they still have one of the best, but others have caught up with them and match them.

Ratcutlery offers the same no holds bar replacement policy and at a much cheaper price. Arguably the RC-warranty is better as it doesn't have the same modded/void warranty conditions that Busse provides. For example, Horndog when he bought his RC-4 when they first came available, could only get one in serrated. He ground off the serrations making a really cool re-curve RC-4. Somebody posted up to Jeff Randall asking if the knife was still covered and Jeff said yes. The only thing they exclude replacement is on rusting due to lack of maintenance because idiots want to have their knife replaced because of a 0.3 mm speck on the surface formed on the edge. Also, I'm sure as time goes on and more idiots decide to screw-over RC with bogus warranty claims they will have to tighten up their policy.

Still, I think you can justify your Busse cost simply on looks, durability and performance. Both my scrapyards I modded to suit my needs. My SOD apparently looks like a camp tramp now that I removed the guard and ramp. From what I'm told it is no longer covered by warranty. That doesn't bother me much. I like my modded knives much better than the original and I have enough faith in their durability that it won't change how I use this knife even though it is no longer covered. Of course if it ever breaks, I'll still bitch and complain and post a thread about it, but I won't demand a replacement :D I doubt it will ever break though - it's already been through hell.
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Good point. I can say that the worst beating that I gave one of my blades was with my Busse Hell Razor. Over the years, I've tested my camp knives by grabbing a chunk of oak from the wood shed and whacking the edge on it for a while and see the effect. I hit the HR against a dense, dense chunk of Oak at a 90 degree angle, full force until my arm was sore, and saw no damage to the edge (or the oak:D). Having performed this simple test on an awful lot of custom and productions blades, not many knives go through that unscathed. Having said that, I don't carry a Busse as much as some of my other blades because of the weight.

For the original poster, I think you should focus on the responses from the members who own a Busse, and actually use them regularly and take the rest of us with a grain of salt.
 
“For the original poster, I think you should focus on the responses from the members who own a Busse, and actually use them regularly and take the rest of us with a grain of salt.”


Superficially that sounds like a good idea – those with hands on experience might be expected to know more about something, and all that. On the other hand it has it's downsides.

As I see it that can introduce even more skew. This section of the site often shifts from polite to so happy clappy just about any knife thrown up here gets mostly positive responses. I think it's drawn from some hackneyed “if you've got nothing nice to say say nothing” rather than calling a spade a spade. I'm certain that many of us will have privately identified some offerings as rank POS and wondered so few people actually have the stones to say it plain. That's not to identify any one maker or brand in particular, but I believe it is a fact.

It gets even more strange when a question is asked here of item X and many of the regulars who are usually only too keen too offer an opinion offer up nothing. Meantime, whilst they hold there tongues a different bunch of people who very seldom, if ever, post in the section of the forum sing the praises of item X. Again, that is not to single out any factory or vendor in particular but it certainly draws my attention to the bulk of the iceberg that is mute probably getting overlooked. And that could well be the most important bit.

We run the risk of compounding that even further if we make the sample even smaller. By analogy one could ask “is it worth the extra to have 5 mega pixel camera on your phone?”. Many who don't have such a phone might say nope and I've never needed such an attribute and here's why... so I don't think it is worth it. I can skate with that just as easily as “is it worth paying the extra for the apparent gains in strength that a Busse beater brings” or is it worth me paying £1796.95 [$2,998.77 USD] for the apparently superior edge retention of a Rockstead Gi DLC. A person who has never even clapped eyes on one could decide that the extra strength, or edge retention, or camera is totally redundant for their purposes and I'd find that valid. To my mind the bigger the sample pool the better. I'd reduce once all the votes were in. Chuck out the day hikers, the collectors, the picnic basket donkeys and those with little obvious experience in the field later if need be. It would be a mistake to listen to a small but vocal portion of the iceberg that justifies owning X on the basis of they bought one regardless of what that X is. Personally, I've not owned a 5 meg camera phone yet, I've only owned 2 Busses, and I'll be dead before the Rockstead technology becomes realistic for widespread tool use. Yet my opinion holds reason to me – those tools are a waste of resources for the problems I encounter. Not worth it.


2cents.
 
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It's all a matter of what you think is worth speniding $ on--

I have had patients tell me that X knife,gun,etc was too expensive-- all the while spending Thousands of Dollars every year on Cigarettes(or worse).

I am not a Busse fanatic--I am a Quality driven knife buyer.

I am NOT loyal to any brand or maker unless it has proven to me I get my $'s worth

Do I get more for my $ when I get a Busse,Siegle,Krein,Gossman,etc-??
-I believe I get a better quality product-made with better materials-made with better quality control.

How many broken Busee's,Siegles,Kreins have you seen photos of??

I like my Beckers, Cold Steel and other production knives--and use them every weekend 99% of the time.But they do not compare in fit,finish,edge holding,and toughness of the Busses and other Handmade Knives I own.

But if you do not ever test your knives--then a production model will suit you and your wallet just fine.
 
WILLIAM.M said:
It's all a matter of what you think is worth speniding $ on--

I have had patients tell me that X knife,gun,etc was too expensive-- all the while spending Thousands of Dollars every year on Cigarettes(or worse).

I am not a Busse fanatic--I am a Quality driven knife buyer.

I am NOT loyal to any brand or maker unless it has proven to me I get my $'s worth

Do I get more for my $ when I get a Busse,Siegle,Krein,Gossman,etc-??
-I believe I get a better quality product-made with better materials-made with better quality control.

How many broken Busee's,Siegles,Kreins have you seen photos of??

I like my Beckers, Cold Steel and other production knives--and use them every weekend 99% of the time.But they do not compare in fit,finish,edge holding,and toughness of the Busses and other Handmade Knives I own.

But if you do not ever test your knives--then a production model will suit you and your wallet just fine.
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Excellent point and the one I feel is at the heart of this.

It takes a contrived set of circumstances to show up any differences. I never noticed anything especially great about the two Busses I had. They cut badly to begin with but that was simple to fix. I just don't like corrosion. It's bad enough having to pander to axes and goloks to avoid corrosion without it spread to more personal items. That meant they had to get the heave. Apart from that I thought they were just good knives, nothing special. I would have had to do something very weird indeed along the lines of “imagine if you will...blah de blah blah boring” for the opportunity for any other factor that may have been present to show up. Similarly that Rockstead Gi DLC I mentioned. I saw a test video of that banging into bamboo then slicing paper. The tester goes on looping that sequence round and round and one must admit it looks quite impressive. I keeps slicing nicely in a way a lot of knives wouldn't after that. Bottom line I took from that – If I got my jollies in an armchair lab slicing paper I should buy a Rockstead Gi DLC next. As I don't that has very little practical application for me. Accordingly it too becomes another irrelevant knife. I suppose I'm a bit the same about HI-FI. If I got a more enjoyable sound experience from a Boulder or a Krell over a Levinson I'd gladly spend the money. But if the difference only shows up in lab testing or some incredibly contorted set of circumstances then I won't. I love knives but I don't think I'm knife nuts.
 
Re BaldtacoII's post (don't want to quote the whole thing):
I understand your reasoning, but the results that are from those that have actually used Busses should carry more weight. I don't think it's too skewed, since quite a few have posted that they used to have Busses and did not like them.

Let's be honest, the only criticism so far in this thread of Busse knives by those that don't own them, that carries any weight is the price and aesthetics. Yep, they are pricey. But then, as has been pointed out many times, people spend thousands on stupid things like booze and cigarettes, or great big TVs and such. It means their priorities are different, not that Busses are too expensive. But, if they think any piece of steel isn't worth that price, fine, it's a legitimate opinion.
If you don't like Micarta, only want traditional material, again, cool, legit opinion, although some have put exotic wood scales on their Busses, and the LE models in particular look great with them.
Don't like choils? Ok. Lots of other knives have them, they really don't affect cutting performance, but hey, you don't want to pay $300+ on a knife that has an aspect you really don't like.

However, others aren't so legitimate. Examples:
"Busses are too thick, they're just sharp prybars."
This would hold some water IF the OP asked about a particular model. But, it's been pointed out by several that Busse has models as thin at 1/8" at t he spine. Some (like the BAD) taper from 1/8" at the scales smoothly all the way to the point. No prybar there, and Busse even stated that it WILL NOT hold up to prying open doors and such. Some of the others come in at .140". One of the most used woods knives is the Skinny ASH at .187" at the spine (and the Hellrazor of the same basic length and thickness). Not prybars.
One person posted exact dimensions along the width of the Fusion Battle Mistress showing it wasn't that thick even though it starts at 1/4" at the spine.
They may have thick spines (on some models), but most of the blades are wither flat ground, or convex ground (on the LE models).
Unless a person OWNED one, they wouldn't know that.

"The edge is too obtuse."
Well, AFAIK, they are all ground with a 20 degree edge bevel, which is pretty standard for any production knife (same as you'll find on a Beck, RAT, Ontario, etc), excepting the models that are convex ground to a zero edge.

I don't like their marketing policies
OK, but that's irrelevant as to the performance of the knife, or determining if they are worth the price.

So really, let's be honest,the bottom line is most naysayers don't like them because of the price.

Most yeahsayers like them because they really do work as advertised, their heat treats the 3 Bussekin companies use really do produce superior toughness, and they really do hold their edge, and are pretty easy to sharpen. So you CAN have both excellent toughness and very good edge holding capability, but you will pay for it. Whether having both of those things is worth the price of admission (and even there Scrapyard knives aren't MUCH more expensive than a RAT Cutlery, Becker, etc, and Swamp Rat aren't bad, either) is up to the individual.
 
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