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To me, having a knife is THE most important single survival item.
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Is a knife as important as we would like to think?
- Thread starter Joben
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Hit it on the head - IAwoodsman made a video demonstrating the technique:
[youtube]IShghbDZMlo[/youtube]
And if you neded to save your life with two pieces of rope and had no knife, you would work it out.
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Yes,
Since you are spreading the friction through out the rope on the bottom and concentrating the friction in one spot on the rope at the top it will cut through the cord on the top and leave minimal damage to the rope you are sawing with.
Edit, for some reason I though Kurupt wrote that.
Great answers so far, all different in their own way.
If we are stranded for a day no, but, yes, I would prefer one.
What happens when a day turns to a week, though?
When help does not come.
To me, a knife is important. I am able to make a number of things in the bush to get me out safely, a knife is not one of them. A knife is needed, however, to make these items. We have great substitutes wherever we are for a lighter, cordage, shelter, because all can be procured with the right skills. A knife, now that does not have any great substitute. Sure, we can say that thousands of years ago, man survived without the knife. However, none of us really no how, or could for any length of time. A simple knife allows us to procure fire, shelter, food. All the necessities. A lighter or match or ferro rod cannot give us a knife. Neither can a tarp or a fresh caught, grilled fish.
This brings me to another point:
Aron Ralston? Anyone think that he could have survived without a knife?
No, I need a knife. You do too.
If we are stranded for a day no, but, yes, I would prefer one.
What happens when a day turns to a week, though?
When help does not come.
To me, a knife is important. I am able to make a number of things in the bush to get me out safely, a knife is not one of them. A knife is needed, however, to make these items. We have great substitutes wherever we are for a lighter, cordage, shelter, because all can be procured with the right skills. A knife, now that does not have any great substitute. Sure, we can say that thousands of years ago, man survived without the knife. However, none of us really no how, or could for any length of time. A simple knife allows us to procure fire, shelter, food. All the necessities. A lighter or match or ferro rod cannot give us a knife. Neither can a tarp or a fresh caught, grilled fish.
This brings me to another point:
Aron Ralston? Anyone think that he could have survived without a knife?
No, I need a knife. You do too.
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If he did the right thing and told someone where he was going that day then yes.
As far as the OP's question, no. I have yet to need any bladed tool while hiking or camping. I carry them because of the speed and ease that they allow me to get tasks done. However I've gone on several trips where I haven't even pulled the knife out of the sheath.
The fact is he didn't. We can constantly debate what we should have done, but
all that matters is what we actually do.
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I have been a lost hiker though never in any I shouldn't be alive way. Also once needed EMS help to take a girlfriend I was hiking with off the trail after she broke her leg. The most important gear items were:
1. Cell phone which was actually in service.
2. Poncho as it rained both times.
3. Headlamp/flashlight as it got dark on both occasions.
4. Frontier straw. One of the few survival items actually used for it’s intended purpose not that there was in any real danger of dehydration but did run out of water and decided what the heck. Two hours later I was in a police car.
The being turned around thing was 100% my fault and ended up walking though someone's backyard at night in the rain. That earned me a police ride back to the trail head and a whole bucket of shame.
The broken leg thing was mostly unavoidable. The rain was unexpected and the rocks got slick. We joked if anyone fell the other couldn't carry the victim down the mountain only minutes before. The park is known as Sleeping Giant and despite being in a populated area it still took 5 hours to get EMS there and her down. Lots of slips and trips from everyone in the dark. I never even considered using my knife for anything as it wasn't needed. Come to think of it during nearly 30 years of crawling around in the woods I have never used much of the mumbo jumbo that the experts expound as must know survival techniques unless just messing around for pure fun. Yea know...The chard cloth...feather sticks...etc etc etc. Frankly I think an oz of prevention is worth a million tons of cure. Tell people your plans and expected return time and take that cellphone though understand that it might not work. Pack a map/compass and GPS. Take a daypack including some kinda rain gear even if the weather calls for sun. Take more water than you think is needed and a way to get more just incase. Think about your clothing options.RE Is a knife as important as we would like to think?
Yes.
A "lost hiker" may be able to survive without a knife. However, he might be able to survive without anything (even clothes). With intelligence, the lost, naked hiker has a very good chance of survival. But IF he is intelligent, he would probably not get himself into that situation. He would go hiking with the proper clothing and the basic equipment reasonable for the particular hike. In my opinion, this would always include a knife.
Knife nuts like me are not the only ones who consider a knife to be important for survival. In the State of New Hampshire (where I live) , Fish and Game lists a knife as one of the "10 essentials" that every hiker should carry---
1.Map
2.Compass
3.Warm Clothing :: Sweater or Pile Jacket, Long Pants (wool or synthetic, NOT cotton), Hat (wool)
4.Extra Food and Water
5.Flashlight or Headlamp
6.Matches/Firestarters
7.First Aid Kit/Repair Kit
8.Whistle
9.Rain/Wind Jacket & Pants
10.Pocket Knife
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=the-10-essentials
Yes.
A "lost hiker" may be able to survive without a knife. However, he might be able to survive without anything (even clothes). With intelligence, the lost, naked hiker has a very good chance of survival. But IF he is intelligent, he would probably not get himself into that situation. He would go hiking with the proper clothing and the basic equipment reasonable for the particular hike. In my opinion, this would always include a knife.
Knife nuts like me are not the only ones who consider a knife to be important for survival. In the State of New Hampshire (where I live) , Fish and Game lists a knife as one of the "10 essentials" that every hiker should carry---
1.Map
2.Compass
3.Warm Clothing :: Sweater or Pile Jacket, Long Pants (wool or synthetic, NOT cotton), Hat (wool)
4.Extra Food and Water
5.Flashlight or Headlamp
6.Matches/Firestarters
7.First Aid Kit/Repair Kit
8.Whistle
9.Rain/Wind Jacket & Pants
10.Pocket Knife
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=the-10-essentials
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I'm not saying "you don't need to carry a knife." You'd be stupid not to carry one if you have it.
What I'm saying is:
Be careful of your mindset. Don't lull yourself into thinking: "I have a knife, so I can survive ANYTHING. My knife is the most important thing I own."
That line of thinking is narrowminded. A key part of survival -- in ANY setting -- is the ability to think in abstract terms without being tethered to a certain mode.
If you get in the habit of telling yourself "Your knife is your life", there might come a day when your knife isn't there for whatever reason: maybe it's 6 feet out of reach, maybe it snaps, maybe it gets washed away with an overturned canoe...and suddenly you're helpless. Not because you're not a woodsy guy, or because you're somehow less adept than someone else -- but, because you focused all your studies and abilities around a knife; and not because you added a knife as an extension of your abilities. Then it turns into a form of learned helplessness: a crutch.
It is equally important to look at how you can do without a knife.
That doesn't mean to quit carrying it. Stick it in your pack and try not to use it unless you absolutely, positively have to. It won't be easy, but it will teach you something: with practice, even your knife will become an extension of your abilities.
Because, the more you depend on that knife, the more you become an extension of it instead of it becoming an extension of training. It rules you. Instead of it making your life easier because of the speed it imparts in your ability to employ a skill, it makes your life impossible because you can't do anything without it.
Me? I'm carrying a knife. But, you won't catch me in the frame of mind that it's the single most important piece of anything I own. The single most important item I own is my brain.
What I'm saying is:
Be careful of your mindset. Don't lull yourself into thinking: "I have a knife, so I can survive ANYTHING. My knife is the most important thing I own."
That line of thinking is narrowminded. A key part of survival -- in ANY setting -- is the ability to think in abstract terms without being tethered to a certain mode.
If you get in the habit of telling yourself "Your knife is your life", there might come a day when your knife isn't there for whatever reason: maybe it's 6 feet out of reach, maybe it snaps, maybe it gets washed away with an overturned canoe...and suddenly you're helpless. Not because you're not a woodsy guy, or because you're somehow less adept than someone else -- but, because you focused all your studies and abilities around a knife; and not because you added a knife as an extension of your abilities. Then it turns into a form of learned helplessness: a crutch.
It is equally important to look at how you can do without a knife.
That doesn't mean to quit carrying it. Stick it in your pack and try not to use it unless you absolutely, positively have to. It won't be easy, but it will teach you something: with practice, even your knife will become an extension of your abilities.
Because, the more you depend on that knife, the more you become an extension of it instead of it becoming an extension of training. It rules you. Instead of it making your life easier because of the speed it imparts in your ability to employ a skill, it makes your life impossible because you can't do anything without it.
Me? I'm carrying a knife. But, you won't catch me in the frame of mind that it's the single most important piece of anything I own. The single most important item I own is my brain.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
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Some people make it through life with no arms or legs so I'm damn sure I could manage without a knife if I had to, but when it's so easy to carry one why not ?
If all the components in your survival kit are chosen wisely then each item should be as important as the next, no more, no less.
You should also have carry over in your kit so if one item breaks or gets lost there is another item that can pull double duty to get a task done.
Maybe someone should put this question to Aron Ralston or Simon Yates or even this guy...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1023312/posts
If all the components in your survival kit are chosen wisely then each item should be as important as the next, no more, no less.
You should also have carry over in your kit so if one item breaks or gets lost there is another item that can pull double duty to get a task done.
Maybe someone should put this question to Aron Ralston or Simon Yates or even this guy...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1023312/posts
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And you could come up with any obscure scenario to prove your point.
Lets not derail this thread with this discussion. Please stick to the topic.
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I believe that everyone who practices survival should do it with the goal of being able to survive in your environment with nothing but the clothes on your back. Then tools become gravy.
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True, I'll concede. Definitely easy enough to carry everyday. :thumbup:
Realistic was a bad choice of words. I just don't ever think of carrying a lighter in my everyday ventures. In the wilderness, I always have at least three different fire starters with me. Usually matches, lighter, and a flint/steel or magnifying glass.
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I fail to see how it's not relevant. You can come up with scenario's to prove you need this or that. My point is that most survival situations aren't decided by wether the person had a knife or not. Scenarios like he brought up where a knife is the deciding factor are few and far between and could be mitigated in other ways.
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Maybe a little off topic but the one time I needed my Bic it failed me miserably. In cold heavy winds, sleet and rain the Bics don't work, if you have some fancy stormproof lighter then maybe your experiences will be different but I cringe when I read on here of people putting faith in a Bic. In moderate weather they are great but when the weather sucks so do the Bics !
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Yup, they're crap when it gets windy or wet. My go to when camping/backpacking is the lighter. But often hit the matches. I've only used the flint/steel and magnifying glass to keep my skills honed. Still need to know you can use em, so you got it when you need it.
I can do the friction fire too. But thats something I just don't practice. I can do it, have done it. But I just don't want to spend an hour or two (and have a dead arm) trying to start a fire. :barf: