Is an SAK all you need?

For me no. I just don't care for them. Not that their terrible there not just would rather have a SOG mutlitool or Leatherman for little more $. I would like to get the SAK Fisherman though to replace the one my grandmother gave me as a kid for the memory and just cause having at least one SAK is nessacary being a knifenut . Especially since there dirt cheap usually.
 
jackknife said:
Somewhere in the depths of youtube, is a very funny video of a guy testing a SAK. He wants to show how quick a SAK will dull on hemp rope, and he cuts away. You hear him making comments like, "That should dull it up now", or later on, "I can't believe it's still cutting". He keeps on cutting hemp rope, and the SAK just keeps on keeping on.

Finally at the end of the video, he remarks that it was way better thane thought. Someone with more computer savvy than this old man should put a link in here for that. :)

Too many steel snobs and knife knuts under estimate the humble SAK.
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dogstar said:
Here you go:
[video=youtube;peO0akVMNbg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peO0akVMNbg[/video]
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Look at where he is actually cutting the rope, where the edge curves near the tip. Then he slices the paper with the long straight edge he has not cut any rope with...and is so amazed...and he just keeps doing this over and over. You can see where the paper hangs up when he gets the slice up near where the edge did cut the rope so he just starts back down the virgin area of the edge to finish it...again so amazed...the area where he actually did the cutting was extremely damaged. And of course he was having a hard time getting through the rope which didn't surprise me.

The only thing I'm amazed with is his lack of spatial perception.

The thing is, not all of us get our information from Youtube. It can be amusing at times and occasionally helpful. But there is nothing like first hand experience.

I have done some hard use tests of many of my blades on hard, seasoned woods. I might need to use them like that in backpacking so I want to know how they are going to do in my hand if called upon. 15 knives have been involved so far. Two of them were SAKs. They were the blue ribbon loosers along with one other knife. They dulled out the quickest but I was surprised at the lack of chips or rolls. I polish all edges down to 2000 grit and buff the wire edges off with a loose buff loaded with jeweler's rouge and slice straight, no torquing. One SAK dulled so fast it could not even finish the test, the only knife that scored that distinction. The other did finish but it was the slowest and the least aggressive cutter in the test. The edge was very easy to bring back to shaving sharp though and it would still cut soft things before stropping back the edge.

There were some very inexpensive knifes that blew the SAKs out of the way and a couple expensive ones that blew them out of the way too. Again SAKs performed the worst except for one knife where the edge kind of crumbled. Do your own tests and be fair, then choose. If the SAK meets your needs then go with it. They are not terrible by any means and the short comings can be dealt with if you desire. I think there is room for improvement in regards to the steel and/or heat treat but they have some amazing walk and talk and near perfect tolerances.
 
SwiftDream,

I would be curious to hear what your cutting test was (as, as I'm sure you nkow, different tests test different aspects of cutting preformance).

Would also be interested to hear how Opinel did (drift).
 
pinnah said:
SwiftDream,

I would be curious to hear what your cutting test was (as, as I'm sure you nkow, different tests test different aspects of cutting preformance).

Would also be interested to hear how Opinel did (drift).
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Absolutely Sir, I totally agree, that is why I test my own edges the way I do use them and the way I might have to use them from past experience.

I tested two #8 Opinels, one in carbon and the other in the 12c27 stainless.

The Opinel in 12c27 was an amazing cutter and had no edge damage. The Opinel handle was much more comfortable than any other folder I tested with the heavy cutting. It slices better than the much more expensive folders imo. The Opinels were the lightest knives in the test. That makes a difference if you are hauling the knife all over creation on foot. All the inexpensive knives in my test with 12c27 were just super, all did better than their carbon counterparts...by a small margin in most cases but still palpably noticeable.

The #8 carbon did not perform as well as the 12c27 did. It was better than the SAKs but did have some slight edge damage and definitely more edge wear than the 12c27. It slowed down into the test where the 12c27 just held its edge better and kept slicing better. Overall it was not bad at all though. It did cut a lot more aggressively than the SAKs did.

I do a lot of food prep out there and have tested all my knives that way over a normal course but heavy wood slicing is important to me from past experience. So my test was carving two hard, seasoned woods, mesquite and acacia. Can I get down into dry portions of very tough, seasoned woods if I have to build a fire in very wet, cold conditions. So each knife was tested on the same woods in the same way just for my own information. I carved down to the same depth with each blade in the test.

I tested some fixed blades too as I like to have a small but capable fixed on me for both strength but also some of the messy food prep where fit and finish really counts when cleaning. On the long trips I'll cook some fancy meals with chicken and the like so easy and thorough cleanup is imperative. I also want a blade that will cut through chicken bones with no edge damage. Most food prep is not too hard on an edge but some can be. For my usage of these tools these are the practical tests but others might need different tests for their own practical usage.
 
kershawguy13 said:
(...)Is an SAK all you need for general EDC uses?
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I think so. I think that a double layer SAK is one of the best general use pocket knives one can buy (anything thicker than three layers, and I'm going with a multi-tool.) My Vic Pioneer is far more versatile than my Sebenza.

insingo01.jpg


We've all used our knives for small random chores that don't involve actual cutting... things like scraping, poking, light prying. Such activities may not seriously damage a knife, but they can sure ruin a fine edge in a hurry. The tool blades on my SAK spare my cutting edge for... well... cutting stuff. :)

-Brett
 
Ulf Krogstad said:
For me no. I just don't care for them. Not that their terrible there not just would rather have a SOG mutlitool or Leatherman for little more $. I would like to get the SAK Fisherman though to replace the one my grandmother gave me as a kid for the memory and just cause having at least one SAK is nessacary being a knifenut . Especially since there dirt cheap usually.
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I'm also not a SAK user, but I am a big fan of small multitools. My favorite is the Leatherman Micra. I work in an office and I use it far more than my EDC. In fact, between my Micra and a pair of ordinary office shears, I really don't need to carry an EDC at all. The only reason I do is because, like you, I'm a knifenut! :)
 
SwiftDream said:
Absolutely Sir, I totally agree, that is why I test my own edges the way I do use them and the way I might have to use them from past experience.

I tested two #8 Opinels, one in carbon and the other in the 12c27 stainless.

The Opinel in 12c27 was an amazing cutter and had no edge damage. The Opinel handle was much more comfortable than any other folder I tested with the heavy cutting. It slices better than the much more expensive folders imo. The Opinels were the lightest knives in the test. That makes a difference if you are hauling the knife all over creation on foot. All the inexpensive knives in my test with 12c27 were just super, all did better than their carbon counterparts...by a small margin in most cases but still palpably noticeable.

The #8 carbon did not perform as well as the 12c27 did. It was better than the SAKs but did have some slight edge damage and definitely more edge wear than the 12c27. It slowed down into the test where the 12c27 just held its edge better and kept slicing better. Overall it was not bad at all though. It did cut a lot more aggressively than the SAKs did.

I do a lot of food prep out there and have tested all my knives that way over a normal course but heavy wood slicing is important to me from past experience. So my test was carving two hard, seasoned woods, mesquite and acacia. Can I get down into dry portions of very tough, seasoned woods if I have to build a fire in very wet, cold conditions. So each knife was tested on the same woods in the same way just for my own information. I carved down to the same depth with each blade in the test.

I tested some fixed blades too as I like to have a small but capable fixed on me for both strength but also some of the messy food prep where fit and finish really counts when cleaning. On the long trips I'll cook some fancy meals with chicken and the like so easy and thorough cleanup is imperative. I also want a blade that will cut through chicken bones with no edge damage. Most food prep is not too hard on an edge but some can be. For my usage of these tools these are the practical tests but others might need different tests for their own practical usage.
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Thanks.

This mirrors my experience exactly.
 
SwiftDream said:
Look at where he is actually cutting the rope, where the edge curves near the tip. Then he slices the paper with the long straight edge he has not cut any rope with...and is so amazed...and he just keeps doing this over and over. You can see where the paper hangs up when he gets the slice up near where the edge did cut the rope so he just starts back down the virgin area of the edge to finish it...again so amazed...the area where he actually did the cutting was extremely damaged. And of course he was having a hard time getting through the rope which didn't surprise me.

The only thing I'm amazed with is his lack of spatial perception.
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That was my initial reaction as well. But if you watch closer he does actually use the whole edge of the knife most of the time.
As you pointed out the bit he actually used on the rope is dulled somewhat which stops him from using the whole edge to slice the paper sometimes. But most of the time he does use the whole length of the edge and the dulled bit still does cut the paper.
 
Is it enough?
Probably.
I always have a Swisschamp in my backpack. :)

There's also a 2 inch bladed fixed blade always in there also though.

And last night, I realized that an Extra Large G-10 Espada was in there from my last hike...I'd been lugging it around for the last month.
Totally forgot about it.

Plus the two knives in my pockets...
So for me, I guess the Swiss Army Knife isn't quite enough for EDC. :D
 
Big Mike said:
Fiber reinforced pneumatic and hydraulic hoses are some of things I apply a lot of force when cutting.

But even tasks like cutting the heavy tarpaulins and ropes we use is best done with a fairy strong tool, I prefer a fixed blade to a folder, and would chose a folder more substantial then a SAK if I had to go that root.

In the woods, making a camp fire or lean-to, I often apply more force to a knife then I am comfortable using with a simple slip-joint like most SAK's


Don't get me wrong, I like SAK's and have been using them all my life, great tools for light duty cutting tasks.

And, as I stated earlier: "For folks who only tackle light duty cutting tasks I imagine it might be all they need."

But not for me.




Big Mike
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The problem here is that we let skewed perception judge what a knife is capable of. While I don't doubt a fixed blade or tougher locking folder with higher end steels would be better for your tasks, that does not out and out translate into a sak being incapable of hard use.

People see "hard use" videos of overbuilt knives being put through hell, and they come to the conclusion that a knife seemingly "dainty" can not handle hard use simply because a knife twice the size can... It's completely illogical.

IMO the biggest benefit for "hard use" knives is the handle sometimes being more ergonomic, which is very important in repeated hard cutting. But people who have never used a sak hard just get this assumption that the blade will disintegrate as soon as it sees REAL use. And I would be wiling to bet that a sak it's more than capable of handling what 99% of people claim it can't.

Maybe it's not best for you, or you simply don't like it. That's fine by me, I probably only carry mine a few days out of the year. But I carry a thicker, tough frame lock with super wear resistant super steel 95% of the time..
But I don't claim a sak is incapable of hard use, and I fully admit it probably actually handles the majority of citing chores people who pine about hard use ACTUALLY do, better than whatever wiz bang super tactical apocalypse knife they actually use.
 
Definitely. But as Freman Bloodglaive said, it's not necessarily all you want :D. I also find that a leatherman works very well as an edc and maybe even to accompany your SAK. I think the pliers on the leatherman are what make it above other things for me.
 
Another reason why I wouldn't carry a SAK as my main knife is that it is way too boring of a knife compared to all the modern designs we have today, even if I felt like going old skool for the day, a Buck 110 is much for fun than a SAK......honestly IMO a SAK is a wimpy knife that i picture mostly nerds carry.
 
I find my SAK classic handles 99% of anything I need to do. I do often carry another knife, smaller than many others would carry though.
 
I think the same guys that wine about hard use and shelter building are often the same folks that dont own a saw or will never need to build shelter as they don't actually see much dirt time.

Or who try use a cutting tool where "cutting", slicing, is not actually the chore at hand but more like what metal sheers or wire snips do and pinch down through the material. For that matter fingernail clippers don't cut either, they pinch your nails along their edge until they break apart. Have you ever seen a sharp can opener?
 
I always carry a blade with a lock (Kershaw 1620 - pefect size to clip in my pocket) and usually a Leatherman s2 on my belt. It's small but has most of what I need on an EDC basis. On backpacking trips (except extended trips where i'm packing ultralight) I carry a Leatherman Wave. Love the one handed opening. Use my Esse on hunting trips. Leave my Randall in the safe to savor over at times! Be safe! Lew
 
I love my SAKs, I have a few to choose from when I go out into the woods. But for urban carry, I go with 2 locking folders and a Vic Spirit. I guess the dealbreaker for me is SAKs have no pocket clip, and now I'm spoiled. Thanks a lot, Spyderco!:p
 
I think the reason why I don't own an SAK is because of the main blade. I don't like spearpoints, but if they ever came out with a model with a main blade sheepsfoot or clip point, I'd be first in line. :p
 
leghog said:
No, I do not believe that's higher than it used to be. Victorinox heat treat different tools to different hardnesses. If you read 54RC what tool was that for? The only place I've ever read of Victorinox blades at 54 RC are in various posts of yours in different BF threads.

Blades are listed as 55-56 RC.
Wood saws, scissors, and nail files at 53 RC.
Screwdrivers, can openers, and awls at 52 RC.
Corkscrews and springs at 49 RC.
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Leghog,

I knew I read the 54Rc figure somewhere in published Victorinox literature. Actually, the published figure was 53-55 Rc. Please see the first post in this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/679189-Victorinox-Steel

More recent info on the Victorinox site puts the number at 55-56Rc. See:
https://www.victorinox.com/medias/sys_master/8868238589982/Resharpen.pdf

I should note that the SAKs I've had the most problem with wire edges were from the 80s and 90s and it would appear that they've bumped up the hardness, which I think is good. Like choices in underwear and socks, preferences in steel hardness can legitimately vary.
 
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