Is Boker doing a disservice to it's customers?

[bdev]

Stich, the page from Boker's website you reference is misleading. The page indicates "Boker knives" are made in Solingen, Germany. But they are not all made there. That's deceptive. When Boker puts "Germany" on the shield of the knife made in China or in Taiwan or any place other than Germany, it's deceptive.

The knives with GERMANY shields are assembled in Solingen Germany from outsourced Asian parts.

 

[knarfeng]

IIRC, according to the Federal labeling requirements, you are allowed to put the country in which the bulk of the cost of producing the item was performed.

I'm guessing that it costs Boker more to assemble the knives in Germany than it does to have the blades made in China.

 

[Le Fermier]

Gentlemen. This is a thread that has validated what I thought was happening. For the last 2 years I thought that I was the only one that felt that Boker was taking advantage of the average purchaser. I fell for a Boker 'Germany' knife sometime ago and felt taken advantage of and as I've said before, I won't be purchasing a Boker, perhaps ever. Can't trust them but I would bet good money that some other knife companies are doing exactly the same thing.

 

[Kadmos]

It's too bad a lot of you won't take the little time it takes to know what you are purchasing, you are missing out on a nice product, with a decent price point, but that's fine just leaves more for me.

Pete

Don't get me wrong, a quality knife is a quality knife, no matter where it's made.

Personally I do a lot of flea market type shopping when it comes to knives. It's nearly impossible to know the value of every knife ever made, or all the variations they come in.

So I rely on tang stamps to help determine value to a large extent. A lot of times I see knives that I've never even heard of before. But if it says "USA" or "Germany" then I have at least some sense of what it might be worth in comparison to something that says "China" or "Pakistan".

My problem with Boker is I wouldn't know where it was made until I got home and researched it. Sure, I might have gotten a very nice knife, but the fact is the ones actually made in Germany are worth more.

That makes my safest bet to assume all are made in China and pay accordingly. And if, as usual, I am working with limited funds, then I would rather spend my money on an old Case, Camillus, etc.

Had Boker not muddied the waters then they would be higher on my buy list.

True, I could educate myself better on them. But I also trade knives a fair amount, which means should I wish to trade it off later I either need to find a person who really knows, or convince them that it's actually what I'm saying it is, and possibly not what it says it is.

And considering at nearly every show I still find dealers who say "A Case 10 dot is worth more because it's the better quality"....I'm not sure its worth the extra hassle associated with Boker. Too many other good brands out there that are clearly and correctly marked.

 

[Stich2442]

Not happening. There are some strong comments in this thread which I would hope the posters would have the common politeness not to make if the thread were in a manufacturer's forum.

If someone wants to start a similar thread in the Boker forum, that's up to them. And I would trust that such a question in a manufacturer's forum would be phrased as an interrogatory and not as an accusation.

Thanks for the reply Frank, I'm all set, I can determine just fine the difference, I was just passing on the necessary tools that Boker has provided to make a determination on what one is purchasing. Sorry if I stoked the fire.

Don't get me wrong, a quality knife is a quality knife, no matter where it's made.

Personally I do a lot of flea market type shopping when it comes to knives. It's nearly impossible to know the value of every knife ever made, or all the variations they come in.

So I rely on tang stamps to help determine value to a large extent. A lot of times I see knives that I've never even heard of before. But if it says "USA" or "Germany" then I have at least some sense of what it might be worth in comparison to something that says "China" or "Pakistan".

My problem with Boker is I wouldn't know where it was made until I got home and researched it. Sure, I might have gotten a very nice knife, but the fact is the ones actually made in Germany are worth more.

That makes my safest bet to assume all are made in China and pay accordingly. And if, as usual, I am working with limited funds, then I would rather spend my money on an old Case, Camillus, etc.

Had Boker not muddied the waters then they would be higher on my buy list.

True, I could educate myself better on them. But I also trade knives a fair amount, which means should I wish to trade it off later I either need to find a person who really knows, or convince them that it's actually what I'm saying it is, and possibly not what it says it is.

And considering at nearly every show I still find dealers who say "A Case 10 dot is worth more because it's the better quality"....I'm not sure its worth the extra hassle associated with Boker. Too many other good brands out there that are clearly and correctly marked.

You folks are really making it more difficult than it needs to be, you have two simple words to remember SOLINGEN and Germany. Like Smithhammer I can look at a Boker and tell.

I buy a good portion of my knives at flea markets also, I purchase off of knowledge and price, knowing more about what you are purchasing gives you negotiating power, I've talked flea
market vendors down from a knife from $60 down to $20, I've also been able to walk away from a guy selling China made Kissing Cranes as German and also trying to sell a Ulster at a inflated price telling me it was German made, I don't take anything someone is trying to sell me at face value.

As for Boker " misleading " the consumer what do you think is a more " American " car? A Jeep Patriot or a Toyota Sequoia ? Fact is the Jeep Patriot is made from only 66% domestic ( US ) parts and the Toyota Sequoia is made from 80% domestic ( US ) parts, the truth of the car business is that it transcends national boundaries. A car or truck sold by a "Detroit" auto maker such as GM, Ford or Chrysler could be less American, as defined by the government's standards for "domestic content" than a car sold by Toyota, Honda or Nissan, all of which have substantial assembly and components operations in the U.S. Business have been outsourcing a long time, every business has become muddled, do I like having to work a little harder to know what I'm purchasing no, but it's the global economic world we are currently living in, and I'm not a lemming.
Where did the brass come from on your USA tang stamped knife? you probably haven't asked yourself that question, truth is India, China, Japan and Argentina are the top producers followed by the United States. My guess to help keep cost down they are not buying US brass.
I have purchased a number of Boker knives all but one or two online, and I have never been confused by what I was purchasing.

Pete

 

[meako]

Pete
Well said mate.A good thread. Seems to have touched a nerve.
Ya get that.

 

[Stich2442]

Pete
Well said mate.A good thread. Seems to have touched a nerve.
Ya get that.

Thanks Pal, really didn't strike a nerve, as much as flag waving without facts, is really just cloth in the wind, I've pretty much provided all the tools needed to determine a Bokers origin, folks can take the knowledge and learn something or built a wall on misguided principals, I always thought of this place as a woodshed to sit back and learn from one another.

Pete

 

[Will Power]

Pete, very sage words you've been offering.

There's woodsheds and woodsheds, mine has a few rats in it from time to time and even a snake or two......:thumbup:

Regards, Will

 

[leghog]

You folks are really making it more difficult than it needs to be, you have two simple words to remember SOLINGEN and Germany.

Excepting Germany doesn't necessarily mean German made, and the non-Boker knife knut or non-knife knut will likely not know that and incorrectly assume what any reasonable man would --- that Germany means German made.

No different than the laments in a thread elsewhere on BF not long ago about Frost putting USA on a Chinese-made knife (as in Frost USA). At least that knife had "China" on the tang. That knife and that company was trashed for using USA in the logo when it was actually a Chinese made knife. At least the tang was clearly stamped with country of origin. We should apply the same standard even for Boker.

 

[Stich2442]

Excepting Germany doesn't necessarily mean German made, and the non-Boker knife knut or non-knife knut will likely not know that and incorrectly assume what any reasonable man would --- that Germany means German made.

No different than the laments in a thread elsewhere on BF not long ago about Frost putting USA on a Chinese-made knife (as in Frost USA). At least that knife had "China" on the tang. That knife and that company was trashed for using USA in the logo when it was actually a Chinese made knife. At least the tang was clearly stamped with country of origin. We should apply the same standard even for Boker.

The Bokers with Germany on the shield are technically speaking, made in Germany, using blades that are produced in China, then shipped to Germany, I don't know enough about Frost but my guess is that like Taylor and Rough Rider they are produced, manufactured, and assembled in China, under contract by a US company.

Pete

On a side note Leghog you mentioned on another thread, the one where you generously gave a Camillus #21 pony jack to your friend, you mentioned that you liked Camco, in the 80's some Camcos were made in Ireland and towards the end of Camillus some were made in China, not sure if they were marked as such.

 

[Grateful]

What Boker is doing with the made in Germany from parts made in China is sneaky and misleading. I bought one awhile back and thought something was not right when I took it out of the box. I have no problem with what they are doing, just with the way they are presenting it.

Jim

 

[leghog]

The Bokers with Germany on the shield are technically speaking, made in Germany, using blades that are produced in China, then shipped to Germany, I don't know enough about Frost but my guess is that like Taylor and Rough Rider they are produced, manufactured, and assembled in China, under contract by a US company.

Pete

"Made" and "assembled" aren't truly synonymous (unlike your comment above where it is much more accurate that "made" is synonymous with "produced, manufactured") hence my earlier comment about Boker being specious regarding this.

 

[Stich2442]

"Made" and "assembled" aren't truly synonymous (unlike your comment above where it is much more accurate that "made" is synonymous with "produced, manufactured") hence my earlier comment about Boker being specious regarding this.

Well then for most company's this should read assembled in America with parts from around the globe





Owned by a InBev a Belgian Brazilian beverage giant

You don't have to like it, but the truth is we have a globe economy, if you start to dig deeper I'm sure you will be surprised who owns, or where most parts for products come from. It is what it is, the op's question "Is Boker doing a disservice to it's customers?" The answer is no they are offering different levels of products, a premium line 100% made in Germany and a economy line with parts outsourced from China at a lower price point, if you got taken by a shady vender/auction site or ignorance and paid a premium, that's your bad, you don't have to keep something, send it back and get what you really wanted.

Pete

 

[sitflyer]

Thanks a bunch for the great ID help you have shared here Pete. Your freely shared hard work will be a great asset in ID'ing Bokers. Well done! :thumbup:

 

[r8shell]

I have knives from all around the world. I have some Chinese made blades that I'm very pleased with. For possibly irrational reasons I believe that Boker's German made carbon steel is superior. In fact, if the blade were made in Solingen and the knife assembled elsewhere, I would probably buy those. We each decide what we want in a purchase. I have schooled myself about what to look for if I want a German made Boker. I do think they are doing a disservice to themselves by not labeling things in a clearer way for their average customer. (Buck's 370 and 300 series are clearly marked, and some people will still tell you that Bucks are no longer American made)

 

[leghog]

Well then for most company's this should read assembled in America with parts from around the globe

I have absolutely no problem with companies being honest. I do have problems with companies who making determining their products' origins complicated when there is absolutely no reason it should be.

 

[robertj298]

I may be wrong but I would think the most of the cost of a pocket knife would be the labor. If the knives made with Chinese parts were actually made in the same Boker factory in Germany the cost savings would be very little which isn't reflected in the much lower costs of these knives.

 

[Stich2442]

I have absolutely no problem with companies being honest. I do have problems with companies who making determining their products' origins complicated when there is absolutely no reason it should be.

Leghog, first I want to say I have the upmost respect for you and the service you provided to service men and their family's , I know you are smarter than this using the example you chose and linked the product is clearly marked Boker Plus where is the confusion?

This is your example


It clearly reads Boker Plus, not Tree Brand Classics.

Pete

 

[bdev]

Leghog, first I want to say I have the upmost respect for you and the service you provided to service men and their family's , I know you are smarter than this using the example you chose and linked the product is clearly marked Boker Plus where is the confusion?

This is your example


It clearly reads Boker Plus, not Tree Brand Classics.

Pete

Pete....we all know it reads Boker Plus but where is China or Taiwan stamped? I ask this because I don't own a Boker Plus and would really like to know.

 

[Stich2442]

Pete....we all know it reads Boker Plus but where is China or Taiwan stamped? I ask this because I don't own a Boker Plus and would really like to know.

Don't know I haven't been fooled into purchasing one but on the same site it states the following

Many companies offer different, levels, of brand, lines etc. Boker Plus is obviously not Boker Tree Brand Classics, at least it's obvious to me, but I don't rely on others I do things myself.

Pete