Is centrum a good multivitamin ?

I already eat lots of bananas and salads. I only get the cramps when I am not being careful with proper hydration, but the magnesium helps out. I haven't been back yet for the blood work to see how the vitamin D is working. I read that vitamin D deficiency happens if you don't get enough sun? Strange to me because in the summer I have 4 lawns that I take care of so I'm in the sun every day even though I work in an office.

What have you read about turmeric? The studies I've read have been generally very positive.
The stories are positive cause it's been used in India for ages and there is big money in selling it. If your reading positive studies I'd be more than sceptical.

For vit d The sun is supposedly absorbed through the eyes for the most uptake. Glasses will cause this to not happen.
 
Link one is based on research from 1931, and I cannot find a source that confirms the statement that the Nobel prize had anything to do with sugar, but that is not surprising, after all, 1931. Could not find any research by Dr. Patrick Quillin, dude has some stellar SEO for someone who is a doc.
Link 2 Based on two studies of 29 and 47 patients respectively, Neither study references inflammation in its conclusion. The article draws a conclusion that isn't there. Is too much sugar bad for you, yes. Is drinking soft-drinks a great way to get more calories faster than any other, yes. The problem I have with most of this pop-health is that its grasping for a straw that isn't there, and isn't needed. Yes most people could eat healthier, but the human body is a feast-fast machine that takes whatever you can feed it. We are an omnivore. Will we be healthier with the right amount of the right food? Yes we will, but that's all. No great medical mysteries. No cancer cures. Sorry, but I can only assume that the writers of these articles have an alternative agenda, and it probably means someone's wallet. Either they are lying or they are stupid. I don't think they are stupid.

Here's a case where modern medicine failed and Turmeric prevailed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5230201/Pensioner-used-turmeric-fight-blood-cancer.html

If we want to have a talk about health, first I think it's important to establish what is perfect, optimal health to each one of us. What you consider perfect, someone else might not.
 
The stories are positive cause it's been used in India for ages and there is big money in selling it. If your reading positive studies I'd be more than sceptical.

For vit d The sun is supposedly absorbed through the eyes for the most uptake. Glasses will cause this to not happen.

I didn't know about the glasses. That is very interesting. I have sensitive eyes and almost always have dark sunglasses on when I'm in the sun. That explains a lot.
 
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Krav Krav , generally man, I think you are more of an add to the forum than not, but this stuff is dangerous. Killing people dangerous. One case is not a treatment, one case is cause for research, and when that research happens, we will get new medicine. I find the thought that any of my medical professional friends would ever do something that was not in their patient's best interests due to money to be horribly disrespectful. I know people in and entering research fields. If there was an effective treatment that got suppressed, every one of them that I know would make it public so that it could be tested and verified, even if it cost them everything. And unlike the herb peddlers, they wouldn't be trying to profit in a dark loophole of the law.

I didn't know about the glasses. That is very interesting. I have sensitive eyes and almost always have dark sunglasses on when I'm in the sun. That explains a lot.
As to my other post, almost no vit D is produced in the eyes, I wear sunglasses outside almost all the time, and my vit D levels are good. I also live in the tropics, but when I was north of 48* you just had to make sure you got out in the sun every chance you got. It doesn't take much. More people down here is Oz are Vit D deficient than you'd think because a lot of people avoid the sun at all costs.
 
Also, dark glasses that filter UV, polarized, are thought to protect against cataracts.
 
Here's a case where modern medicine failed and Turmeric prevailed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5230201/Pensioner-used-turmeric-fight-blood-cancer.html

If we want to have a talk about health, first I think it's important to establish what is perfect, optimal health to each one of us. What you consider perfect, someone else might not.

I get all my medical advice from the tabloids, yup yup yup.

ffb1d780d102b88645b091f012b58d49.jpeg
 
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The idea that safer, better, cheaper treatments are not available in the US is true. And money suspiciously appears to be the motive.

Some of my American friends are trying to get a medication that is only available in other parts of the world. They are told (in the peer reviewed research) it is highly effective and has minimal side effects. They tried calling the company in India that manufactures it and can not get a response.

I know of medications that were FDA approved that can no longer be purchased in the US. We are only “allowed” to buy the generic thanks to pharmacy benefit managers deciding that they (and insurance companies) didn’t want to pay for the “real thing.”

So, everyone is not noble in their intentions and actions when it comes to making money off of sick people, and there are consequences for whistle blowers.

That said, I’m skeptical of ALL information.
 
The FDA might not be perfect but it saved possibly tens of thousands of american infants from Thalidomide. "Safer, better, cheaper" until its not. The FDA moves slow, but docs can lobby for access to drugs if they think they will help. Something doesn't add up.
There may be profit motives from time to time, but often drug makers license the production of generics due to marketing, it keeps them from having to lower prices and the marketing implications, or no one cares. Generics are the same, its placebo that makes them work better (most of the time, yes I know that certain classes of drugs like SSRIs and hormeones can act differently with slight changes, and that some people find the generic works better for them, and some worse)
Also things change, drugs that don't get used don't get made, and if that's a US problem, fine, Canada and the EU are probably going to just contract the production at a government level. I'm not exactly pro-regulation, but I'm anti no-regulation.
 
Krav Krav , generally man, I think you are more of an add to the forum than not, but this stuff is dangerous. Killing people dangerous. One case is not a treatment, one case is cause for research, and when that research happens, we will get new medicine. I find the thought that any of my medical professional friends would ever do something that was not in their patient's best interests due to money to be horribly disrespectful. I know people in and entering research fields. If there was an effective treatment that got suppressed, every one of them that I know would make it public so that it could be tested and verified, even if it cost them everything. And unlike the herb peddlers, they wouldn't be trying to profit in a dark loophole of the law.

As to my other post, almost no vit D is produced in the eyes, I wear sunglasses outside almost all the time, and my vit D levels are good. I also live in the tropics, but when I was north of 48* you just had to make sure you got out in the sun every chance you got. It doesn't take much. More people down here is Oz are Vit D deficient than you'd think because a lot of people avoid the sun at all costs.

Gadgetgeek, You asked for proof, there it's is. This was the first Documented case, turmeric, the cucumin in it, is a very well study herb.
I'm not forcing you to reply.
How come we can't have a conversation about medicine and or health? Did you ever think of that, my point was there are several different ways to health. Your saying, this ladie is wrong for treating herself? She saved her life, no you want to tell people how you want them to get and stay healthy I guess.
That's insane in my honest opinion. I never told anyone to treat themselves, the protocal call was more proof that this took place. There's 100 ways to health.
I tried to engage with you in conversation because you commented on the post. Please understand I'm not competing with anyone, I'm want to learn more about health.

This does not mean that I'm suggesting or even mildly hinting that you have to agree with everybody on everything. To do so would invite disaster into your life. But it does mean that you can disagree without being disagreeable. You can disagree and yet respect that persons to believe as he or believes. You can have a different opinion without denying the other persons right to have the opinion he or she has.

For the record, I guess I have to say this every time I post about health or medicine. consult your physician before trying anything. someone else already stated this, that's why I didn't until now. I'm not judging you or others, yes people die from all sorts of crazy things, once read a young ladie from a college was in a water drinking contest. Never heard of such a thing, but she had organ failure from drinking almost two gallons of water within a couple hours.




Gadgetgeek, I don't have a problem with you or anyone else on here, it's actually the opposite, I have a lot of love and respect for all of you. I support whatever you choose for your health. I will never, ever tell someone what's best for them, I only give my experience, and knowledge on the topic. Ultimately it's the persons choice what they choose for health. Period, please keep in mind also, sometimes all medicines fail, it's not a bad thing when you have no other options on the table left except natural or holistical approach.
 
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Krav Krav
I didn’t interpret that you were advising people to do “nutty” things or that you would try the first thing you found on an internet search.

I agree that health/disease is a complicated subject, and there are many exceptions to the conventional rules, and conventional medicine doesn’t have an answer for everyone.

I remember watching a man on TV, who like that woman, had exhausted all his possibilities—until it occurred to him to eat RAW meat. This brought about a cure or remission for him. To prove his point he ate raw meat in front of the audience.

I am living proof (barely) that generics don’t perform the same (never mind the differences between generics themselves which can be substituted without notice). I almost lost my life as a result. (There are many —conflicting—papers debating generic interchange and often either the jury is out or the studies are not comparable, and of course it depends on what you are treating. Most doctors I talk with say absolutely do not waste time with a generic —introduces another variable—or they honestly don’t know. ) Personally, I think they confound post-clinical trial data since everyone isn’t using the same agent. I’ve also noticed physicians may have to compensate, sometimes using dosages up to 50% higher, exposing the patient to more risk of side-effects.

I liked my mentor. He was into everything—some things I wouldn’t try. He was very bright, did a lot of research and knew how to find talented practitioners of all stripes; MDs, chiropractor, acupuncture, supplements, Alexander technique, etc., took good care of himself, really all you can try to do.
 
This has been an interesting thread. I'm grateful for the information, including differing opinions about medicine\health that were discussed vigorously but without rancor. That is a welcome change to the way most discussions go these days.

I don't trust Big Pharma at all, but on the other hand, their research is horribly expensive and no one is going to spend that kind of time and money without the chance for a big return. I don't trust the FDA to always do the right thing or be properly funded and unbiased, but I also believe that their review does generally ensure pretty safe and pretty effective medicine.

The unfortunate thing is that medicine is prohibitively expensive, insurance, procedures, medicine, education, all of it. My small firm pays over $150,000 per year towards our employees' health insurance and that does not count their own premium payments, co-pays or deductibles, all of which are also really big.
 
I'd rather have your participation on the topic cougar.
If that wasn't clear enough I can amplify:

Tabloids like the Daily Mail are not reliable sources. Even if you take the story at face value it only says one person who had cancer got better, and she was taking a turmeric extract at the time. That's not a double-blind study; that's an anecdote. Cancer goes into spontaneous remission quite frequently. Usually the people who go into remission were trying some form of alternative treatment. Maybe it had something to do with the remission or maybe it didn't. The tabloids hype it all as miraculous wonder cures.
 
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This has been an interesting thread. I'm grateful for the information, including differing opinions about medicine\health that were discussed vigorously but without rancor. That is a welcome change to the way most discussions go these days.

I don't trust Big Pharma at all, but on the other hand, their research is horribly expensive and no one is going to spend that kind of time and money without the chance for a big return. I don't trust the FDA to always do the right thing or be properly funded and unbiased, but I also believe that their review does generally ensure pretty safe and pretty effective medicine.

The unfortunate thing is that medicine is prohibitively expensive, insurance, procedures, medicine, education, all of it. My small firm pays over $150,000 per year towards our employees' health insurance and that does not count their own premium payments, co-pays or deductibles, all of which are also really big.
Pretty good assessment , IMO.

The main ingredient I see lacking is “care.” In earlier times patients had more access to physicians who (generally) expected to take care of their patients. I asked an old school doctor (age 84) why he didn’t just cut back. His answer, “my patients need me full time.”

Now, doctors in their 50’s and 60’s work part time and have nurses and assistants pick up the slack. I’m sorry, but with the prices we pay, I would like to have a chance at the person who has the most training. If someone else disagrees, let them choose an alternative.

And with electronic medical records, you are lucky to see the person’s face. I get the impression that they are more concerned about ticking the right software boxes than solving my problem the old fashioned way by thinking and listening.

That’s why I believe it’s more important than ever to evaluate information for yourself, and if something seems wrong, question it.

Here’s a recent example of sloppiness: went to the doctor following a scan. He is very friendly and starts by saying, “so, you take a medicine every day for your problem…”

I had to cut him off and explain that I’ve NEVER taken a medicine for this condition because I’m essentially normal. (And he’s got the benefit of those electronic records, partially touted to reduce errors(!)) cost a fortune!)

Also, notice he was talking down to me, “a medicine.” Couldn’t say the name of it? Thinks I’m an idiot? Or he didn’t know which one I wasn’t taking. This is not what I consider “care,” when you are in such a hurry that you get basic stuff wrong. And the hurry is all about the revenue.

So I understand when people look for answers outside the normal channels.
 
Vitamin D through the eyes? Never heard that before. :D

Here’s what you do:
Eat as many leafy greens and nutrient dense vegetables as you can, eat healthy fats, eat lean meats and throw some fruits in for dessert. Amounts in that order with the bulk being vegetables. Stay away from sugar and processed foods.
Get some exercise daily even if it’s standing in place and wiggling like a worm. Whatever you’re capable of at the moment.
Drink at LEAST a gallon of WATER a day. Not soda, not juice, not sports drinks, not energy drinks, not tea or coffee. WATER!
And, make sure you have a healthy social life.

After all that most people won’t have problems. But some will. Do you need vitamins? Maybe but what does your doctor say? Doctors don’t prescribe multivitamins. If you have a problem with vitamin D I would guess your doctor would tell you to go outside more or tell you to take a vitamin D supplement. Vitamin D supplement, not a multi. They’ll also instruct you on how to take vitamin D for best absorption. See your doctor. ;)
 
If that wasn't clear enough I can amplify:

Tabloids like the Daily Mail are not reliable sources. Even if you take the story at face value it only says one person who had cancer got better, and she was taking a turmeric extract at the time. That's not a double-blind study; that's an anecdote. Cancer goes into spontaneous remission quite frequently. Usually the people who go into remission were trying some form of alternative treatment. Maybe it had something to do with the remission or maybe it didn't. The tabloids hype it all as miraculous wonder cures.

I agree with you about the news. There is more info on that case other places.

That’s a good subject, spontaneous remission and nocebo. Our minds are very powerful, way more than we think. That’s my opinion.
 
Gadgetgeek, You asked for proof, there it's is. This was the first Documented case, turmeric, the cucumin in it, is a very well study herb.
I'm not forcing you to reply.
How come we can't have a conversation about medicine and or health? Did you ever think of that, my point was there are several different ways to health. Your saying, this ladie is wrong for treating herself? She saved her life, no you want to tell people how you want them to get and stay healthy I guess.
That's insane in my honest opinion. I never told anyone to treat themselves, the protocal call was more proof that this took place. There's 100 ways to health.
I tried to engage with you in conversation because you commented on the post. Please understand I'm not competing with anyone, I'm want to learn more about health.

This does not mean that I'm suggesting or even mildly hinting that you have to agree with everybody on everything. To do so would invite disaster into your life. But it does mean that you can disagree without being disagreeable. You can disagree and yet respect that persons to believe as he or believes. You can have a different opinion without denying the other persons right to have the opinion he or she has.

For the record, I guess I have to say this every time I post about health or medicine. consult your physician before trying anything. someone else already stated this, that's why I didn't until now. I'm not judging you or others, yes people die from all sorts of crazy things, once read a young ladie from a college was in a water drinking contest. Never heard of such a thing, but she had organ failure from drinking almost two gallons of water within a couple hours.




Gadgetgeek, I don't have a problem with you or anyone else on here, it's actually the opposite, I have a lot of love and respect for all of you. I support whatever you choose for your health. I will never, ever tell someone what's best for them, I only give my experience, and knowledge on the topic. Ultimately it's the persons choice what they choose for health. Period, please keep in mind also, sometimes all medicines fail, it's not a bad thing when you have no other options on the table left except natural or holistical approach.
I appreciate that you look to a nuanced approach. But you also have to appreciate that many have already made up their mind to the fact that they will not take medical advice, because the "proofs" of alternative therapy have built a narrative in their mind that doctors cannot be trusted. This means that they will forego tested treatments and go straight for methods that are dangerous. Steve Jobs and Steve McQueen are two examples of famous people who took that route and waited too long to get real treatment, its likely that both would have lived longer. Paul Allen is a case going the other way, many forgot that he had battled cancer back in the 80s, and was quite healthy for a lot of his life.

I will agree that there are many ways to health and pills are not always the best ones, in many cases habits matter more. But we have evidence. We know that over eating is harmful and we can prove why. We know that certain diet strategies seem to work, but we don't yet know why. We know that certain diseases can be prevented and some cured, and we are still working on others. The problem I have with alternative therapy is that none of them are new, none can be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not having time to do research. Almost without fail their research has tiny sample sizes, poorly collected data, improper methods, and makes flying leaps to conclusions. So do I give them the benefit of the doubt? No, because there is no doubt. Maybe I come across as closed minded. I don't recall if I shared this story here or somewhere else.

A friend from a long time ago was diagnosed with terminal cancer in his neck by a naturopath. No testing, just you have a lump, it must be cancer. He was told that he would die if he went to a traditional doctor, as the chemo was poison. So he was told to take colloidal silver and peach pits (both of which are poisons, ironically) and the lump went away. I don't know what happened to him, we've lots touch. I don't know what illness he had. But I have little patience for anyone willing to tell someone that they have cancer and that death in imminent with no proof. If it was just, take vitamin C, you'll feel better with that cold, I could not care a whit. But when the alternative is death... Until the alternative therapy people grow some ethics and start showing that they are sorry when people die, and start policing and shaming their own who cause these deaths, like traditional doctors do, then I'll listen. I won't listen to one-off successes as justification for their trail of bodies.

Search for health wherever you think you will find it, that is your right, and you may find something that works. But you also have to be very careful who you allow to use your reputation to bolster their own. Talking about these alternative therapies without looking past the first set of links is what the alternative medicine people rely on. I cannot find the case study directly. However while typing this I did find a meta analysis of trials that do look promising, but they need more time, and they need to be solidified before I'll give them any weight. Its not unusual, almost all drugs come from some form of naturally occurring molecule. And by law of large numbers, the alternative therapy people probably have one or two things that work a little. I'll wait for real medicine to figure out how to make them work better.

Lastly, its important to keep Medicine separate from US Medical Systems, sure the US has its problems, but its not the only dog in the fight, and the rest of the world will produce drugs and good research just as they always have. These discoveries are never isolated, they are tried and trialed all over the world, and so even if a product doesn't make the market in the US as fast as it does somewhere else, it will get there if the efficacy can be proven.
 
Pretty good assessment , IMO.

The main ingredient I see lacking is “care.” In earlier times patients had more access to physicians who (generally) expected to take care of their patients. I asked an old school doctor (age 84) why he didn’t just cut back. His answer, “my patients need me full time.”

Now, doctors in their 50’s and 60’s work part time and have nurses and assistants pick up the slack. I’m sorry, but with the prices we pay, I would like to have a chance at the person who has the most training. If someone else disagrees, let them choose an alternative.

And with electronic medical records, you are lucky to see the person’s face. I get the impression that they are more concerned about ticking the right software boxes than solving my problem the old fashioned way by thinking and listening.

That’s why I believe it’s more important than ever to evaluate information for yourself, and if something seems wrong, question it.

Here’s a recent example of sloppiness: went to the doctor following a scan. He is very friendly and starts by saying, “so, you take a medicine every day for your problem…”

I had to cut him off and explain that I’ve NEVER taken a medicine for this condition because I’m essentially normal. (And he’s got the benefit of those electronic records, partially touted to reduce errors(!)) cost a fortune!)

Also, notice he was talking down to me, “a medicine.” Couldn’t say the name of it? Thinks I’m an idiot? Or he didn’t know which one I wasn’t taking. This is not what I consider “care,” when you are in such a hurry that you get basic stuff wrong. And the hurry is all about the revenue.

So I understand when people look for answers outside the normal channels.
People are very bad a figuring out the difference between system, institution and individual. We are seeing the same thing in many aspects of public service, not the least of which is policing. Its up to those who recognize the problems to point them out so they can be fixed. We punish the individual and leave the institution standing so to save its reputation, and we allow the systems to become self-corrupted with cruft. Its like a program code that has been edited too many times, or a novel that has been translated through too many languages. If you told that story to any doctor, I think they would be offended that it happened in their profession. Think of it this way. We see threads all the time "I bought custom knife X from maker Y, and Z happened" and almost all the custom makers will come back with either "user error, that knife could never do that, what were you thinking" "what was that maker thinking, I'd never allow that out of my shop" "That is not how an honest maker works" etc. Sometimes there are slight differences in opinion, but often times the makers here keep each other accountable. The banned list of custom makers who couldn't do the right thing proves it. Medicine has lost some of that, and needs to change, but it will only change if forced to. The simple fact that the Doc rarely cares about revenue, and their office manager who is not a medical professional is the only one who does, should tell you where your attention should be directed. Complex systems create complex problems, and need complex solutions.
 
Wow, this is still going.... lol

Guys, NONE OF US are qualified to speak about specifics on ANY OF THIS. It's not in our wheelhouse.

I'm an electrical engineer. I design control and protection systems for power transmission lines and substations. I am NOT a nutritionist, doctor, researcher, or coach. You want to know how to wire up a bus differential relay, I'm your guy. You want to know how to take Vitamin D so it gets maximally absorbed... sorry can't help you.

Even if I think I have a good grasp on the subject (and I do) I wouldn't offer specifics (not my place). Leave that to your doctor. In my previous post I gave general guidelines like don't overeat, get enough protein, eat a variety of foods, exercise regularly, get plenty of sleep. Those are general. Should I back those up with link's to medical research? Meh, maybe I should. People love to argue.

I know you all want to have a discussion, after all this is a forum. But this stuff is more nuanced then we realize. We can all, right now, google and cherrypick a research study that supports our narrative. But were not qualified to interpret the findings. It's not enough to read the abstract or conclusion and then think "see, I was right!". Trust science, and trust academics and professionals. There are people out there spreading good information, and there are also those spreading pseudoscience. You have to draw your own line between trust and skepticism. Here are a few that I think (after a few years of casually researching topics) really know their stuff. Youtube their name, or search for a podcast from them. They're all big on social media.

Martin Macdonald (nutrition)
Dr. Stephan Guyenet (nutrition)
Dr. Spencer Nadolsky (weight loss)
Dr. Austin Baraki (pain science & strength training) <<---- this guy especially
Dr. Jordan Feigenbaum (strength training)
Dr. Brad Schoenfeld (nutrition & muscle building)
Dr. Mike Israetel (nutrition & muscle building)

Just... my... opinion....

Edit. What the hell. I'll link a good one for you guys. Watch it, it's short.

 
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