Is "going off the grid" feasable?

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Esav is right that humans are, and always have been, pack animals. I don't like being around lots of people, or really any people for long periods of time, but I fully admit that I can't stay absolutely alone for long, either. For me, going to work and church is enough contact. Visiting a few friends now and then is much better. So, although I have misanthropic tendencies, even I can't hack no contact for long.

The other stuff is why I made the distinction between off the grid and off the radar.
It's fairly easy to live off the grid, or nearly so, and still be a part of modern society. I've known guys that lived in tents in the woods. They owned the land, payed taxes, held down a regular job and drove cars. They just chose a more primitive lifestyle. Gte yourself some rabbits, chickens and a milking cow. You'll have more meat, eggs, cheese, butter, etc than you can handle. Grow a good garden, and you can save a whole lot on groceries, even with feeding the animals. If you're in a good climate area, you may be able to get by with minimal heat, and little to no A/C, just some fans in the summer -- you may even be able to run them off solar. That saves a lot on the electric bill without going totally black. Use the flourescent bulbs instead of incandescent. They cost more, but do last longer, produce much less heat and use far less energy.

Being smart about things can greatly reduce your dependence on "da grid", while still taking advantage of modern society.

Like another poster said: if you want to know what SHTF looks like, or "life completely off the grid" look at places like Nepal, Africa, Haiti, etc. Do you really want to live like that? I don't.
 
I always like to assume the worst case scenario... Stuff like rifling the bodies of dead police/military for ammo and batteries.
 
I'm starting to get a bit confused about terms here.

Off the grid doesn't mean- to me or my friends- a stone age 100% live off the land lifestyle. There's a range of meaning, yes- but they range from independent power to a mostly self sufficient *civilized* lifestyle.

One couple up in Canuckistan has a 20 mile hike over mountains to the nearest establishment and many more miles to a town. They have a cabin and do a fine job living a reasonable life, without hardship, lack of clothing, or whatever primitive images anyone has. THey pack in supplies that they don't grow about once a month for half the year and don't sweat it.

Some hippie friends of mine live in tents out in the back 40 of a farm for $50 a month rent. Now, they are OFF the grid in a lot of ways- no real jobs, taxes, etc. But even here, they are living in lumberjack camp tents, not bivvies, and while it's simplistic, it's not ridiculously rough. They are willing to buy food, cook, and even purchase clothing!!!!!!!
 
Charlie Mike said:
I always like to assume the worst case scenario... Stuff like rifling the bodies of dead police/military for ammo and batteries.
Click to expand...

What?

Seriously, I think this whole conspiratorial survivalist fantasy thing is getting a bit silly. This line of discussion has little to do with wilderness and survival skills.
 
Like I said ... Worst Case Scenario
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Esav is right that humans are, and always have been, pack animals. I don't like being around lots of people, or really any people for long periods of time, but I fully admit that I can't stay absolutely alone for long, either. For me, going to work and church is enough contact. Visiting a few friends now and then is much better. So, although I have misanthropic tendencies, even I can't hack no contact for long.
Click to expand...

You are describing accurately the stress of living in a high-density society, where diversity of customs and the consequent confusion of expectations makes working with people outside your immediate circle of family and friends so difficult.

As I pointed out about the origins of this kind of society, within the early bands, family ties and shared rites of passage bind the community together. But when communities like this join with neighboring communities, strangers become part of the daily experience, and their ways differ in subtle ways.

Even Rome with its seven hills was home to ethnically, socially, and linguistically similar tribes, -- who had a history of fighting for control of the local area. See the myths of the Sabine wars. After that, the Sabine nobility was enrolled in the Roman patrician class.
 
The more people i meet the more i prefer the silence of the woods, by myself
 
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You need some companionship, but you DO NOT need to be part of a group. Especially a large group. It makes things easier, but there have been plenty of people who live as husband and wife with minimal contact for a long LONG time.
 
Here is a blog I follow about a women who spends half her time holed up in one of her two "off the grid cabins" except for internet access, one in BC and one in Washington state.

http://asthecrowflies.org/

The rest of the time she hikes the trails. Interesting but I am not sure how she supports herself. Inheritance? She has definitely simplified her life. Too bad she doesn't like knives or guns. Oh ya, one of her cabins is for sale. :eek:

http://asthecrowflies.org/cabin/
 
While I did my below radar thing, I was in contact with people. In fact I conversed with 1%ers regularly. If a guy who has spent half his life incarcerated calls me an outlaw, that makes me rethink things.
 
To take the idea of off the grid in a bit of a different direction...

There are plenty of technologies now that could make a house, even one in the middle of the city, an "off the grid" house. Not in the sense of social isolation at all, but in the sense of self sufficiency.

There are power plants (eg. wind, solar), hvac (eg. geothermal, passive solar), and water treatment (eg. roof collection and cisterns, individual small package wastewater plants, composting toilets, etc.). There are rain gardens & roof gardens for food production, which can also benefit from internal composting & gray water recycling.

In fact, I would bet that distributed power and wastewater systems are going to be much more common the more people we have. Food security will probably be a big issue as well, so a home garden can't hurt.

There are even possibilities where you could "feed" the grid, rather than take from it.
 
So you are sitting at home. Why not get a cheap bicycle, explore the area and get in shape.

Also start a self study program. Set some goals or you will probably wander.
For example, learn Spanish (Spain, Mexico, and American types). Spanish could be
useful in the USA (think how), and if you leave the USA, also.

Library materials are free. Lots of info on the net.
 
People have been living off the grid for hundreds upon hundreds of years, think of all the homeless people living in America, the tribes still living in the deserts of Africa or other countries. Not only do they live off the grid, they have completely self fulfilling lives without knowing technology even exists in some cases.
 
If you live in the city raise your hand...

::starts counting::

If you've never been without power for more than a week raise your hand...

::counting::

If you're used to a lifestyle of creditcards and instant gratification, raise your hand...

::yep::


I think, through five pages or so, we've pretty well established that Chuckers ain't talkin' about Les Stroud eco-nerd living--he's talking about checking out of "society".

Don't listen to the naysayers, CM. It can be done, homeless folks do it everyday.

Here's the key, and it hasn't been hit upon yet:

You have to decenter, deprogram, and re-adapt.


Now, why do I say decenter?

Because we've become accustomed to instant gratification. It's about what we want, how we want, when we want. Centralized. Me,me,me. You have to forget about what you want, how you want, when you want--and get used to the hard truth of get what you can, when you can, the best way you know how.
You'll have to move, and I don't mean a couple hours away. I mean across the country. Where nobody knows you or gives a shit if you live or die.

Now, why do I say deprogram?

Because we have become programmed that electronic transaction and banking is a must. Carrying credit is a must. Credit cards, debit cards, Starbuck's coffee, McDonald's, paychecks, direct deposit, Playstations and, telephones, & cellphones.
Checking out means you aren't going to have to check-in with anybody. So you don't need a cellphone. You don't need a telephone; oh sure, it seems like a necessity and it IS to people who have tailored their lives to hang by it. There are jobs for cash in lots of places. I don't know a lot of people who like to dig their own ditches. $20 for man labor will beat $250 renting and fueling an excavator for most people, even if they have to loan you the shovel and mattock. Deprogramming yourself means to learn to live outside of what you've been programmed by society as an "acceptable" standard of living. As long as you aren't a thief and are willing to work, I've seen my old man pay 50 bucks for cleaning out 14 barn stalls. He even buys lunch. But, to most people, that's "unacceptable" as slave labor...because it gets their hands dirty and it "smells". To you, it'd be 50 bucks for exercise and no job application, credit check, questionaire or picture ID required.
Deprogram all your old habits, haunts, interests, etc...they caught a guy on the lamb because he couldn't kick his WoW habit. Even libraries require your license to use their computers. Flea markets, brutha. If you get too strapped and have crap to sell, you usually won't get a game of 20 questions over a $30 Endura.
Understand that your life expectancy is about to go DOWN. The reason our life expectancy is so high in this country is because of all the modern medicines, treatments, cures, machines, etc... There are some things that band-aids, triple antibiotic, Hydrogen Peroxide, Rubbing Alcohol and Tylenol won't fix.

Finally, re-adapt:

Survival isn't the ability to run a mile in 5 minutes. It's ability to adapt. To develop an instinctual knowledge for the place in which you live. Adapation doesn't happen overnight, it won't happen without study. You'll have a new lifestyle, some people will call you a bum, a deadbeat, dregs of "society", yadda yadda. You will have to get used to second hand, third hand, fourth hand clothes...but there are Goodwill stores everywhere. And churches are usually pretty good to help. Re-adapt. Learn to do without the latest gizmo in favor of the cheaper "late" model that'll do the job.


People will tell you that it's a "fantasy" and to let go. But to the folks who are too plugged in to let go, it IS a fantasy. They get away for a few days, and then get to missing their flat screen, their I-POD, and the Greasy Spoon--then the lonliness sets in and they have to get back in the rat race. Which is fine, some people have to have that.

There are downsides, though. You won't have medical insurance...unless you move to a state with "Right to Treatment" hospitals...and then they'll require ID. So if you decide to go too far with it, you could die from something like the flu, pneumonia, an absessed tooth or appendicitis.

Before I get hammered, no I haven't got it all figured out. But I HAVE examined the theoretical and practical aspects of what it would take to be a ghost. It's not pretty, it's not easy, and it's not particularly appealing if you like sitting on your ass with a 70 degree thermostat at your fingertips.

But it CAN be done.
 
Please elaborate SC.

If you don't mind. I'm not quite understanding what you're calling "running away".

Do you mean someone who has broken a law and is afraid of facing their responsibility, so they run?

Or do you mean somebody who decides to reject a socially accepted norm?

There is a difference. One IS running away, and is cowardly. One is just walking your own path.
 
KEmSAT-Survival said:
Even libraries require your license to use their computers. Flea markets, brutha. If you get too strapped and have crap to sell, you usually won't get a game of 20 questions over a $30 Endura.

Adapation doesn't happen overnight, it won't happen without study. You'll have a new lifestyle, some people will call you a bum, a deadbeat, dregs of "society", yadda yadda.
Click to expand...

Libraries are very liberal in giving out cards, generally you need a some kind of bill with
your name and address on it, like a utility bill. Bills can be faked, and a genuine bill could
be used with another person's name. I would prefer not to use another person's name
and address, because of identity-theft laws.

Edit: I forgot to add that some Libraries might accept a rent receipt as enouigh ID.

Specifically, to computers, laptops are getting cheaper all the time.
And free WiFI connections at libraries, colleges, cafe's do still exist, with no id required.

OP,
As to "Adaption", why not put some effort into adapting to a higher level than subsistence?
I not saying "aim for a Bill Gates level", just raise your sights somewhat.

Ironically, most of the people (illegal aliens) who are out of the system, would like to be
in the system in a much bigger way.
 
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