Is it just me, or is Kershaw handling the Natrix line all wrong?

Goose 7279 said:
Dont know if you knew this but nickel silver and brass are both copper alloys and the strength for nickel silver and copper are almost the same
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What i am reffering to is hard copper or half hard not annealed. No doubt that cold rolled nickle silver is tough and stronger than cold rolled copper but cold drawn and especially cast nickle silver which is used on knives alot is not tougher than cold rolled copper. Im not positive on this but i would venture to say that half hard copper is stronger than cast but im not positive. Nickle silver is tougher and stronger than copper in annealed state. But copper has the ability to be tempered where as nickle silver does not. Admittedly i dont know what type of copper is used in this knife or yours.

Unless i have missed something. All my expierence with metals comes from working in a zinc processing plant so im not as well versed in copper and brass and nickle silver as i would like. But i will say In the mines and mill where i work we have 3 to a 15 lb copper sledges and they hold up perfectly fine even though striking other metals repeatedly.

And as i stated before this is my understanding and expierence and i could be wrong or have a misunderstanding of it because i dont work with copper i work in the zinc field.
 
Comeuppance said:
Realistically, the parts of the knife that don't experience much force (everything below the pivot and everything not attached to the sub-framelock) could likely be almost a hollow shell of ~1/8" copper with a handful of reinforcing lines that are slightly thicker. The handle of the knife, with just a few minor reinforcements, would be entirely as sturdy as necessary with a very small relative density.

I think 10oz is a gross overestimation; 4.5-5.5oz seems like a realistic goal as long as it is designed wisely. Put a standoff at the butt, one around where the base of the thumb would land, use the pivot and stop pin to support the rest, and a relatively hollow ~1/8" handle seems feasible.
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Okay, what are you basing that on? How is it a realistic goal? As I pointed out, even if the scales stay the exact same thickness you can almost certainly assume at minimum a doubling of weight with a 36% size increase. Now, copper is both heavier and more ductile than steel, so are you certain 1/8" thick copper won't simply bend when any significant stress is applied? If you are certain, how?

I've pretty well explained the math and thought process behind my estimation. Can you do the same for yours?

There are many things we want to be true, deciding that they are true based on what we want and vague feelings is rarely helpful, though.
 
As a phrase my daughter coined when she was 3yo, (and still gets repeated often in our house)....... "I just want everything I want".

But boy do I want a larger, lighter, tougher, cheaper, Copper Natrix...but with much better blade steel. Honestly, I'm not poking fun at anyone, it's seriously something I would really, really like. Unfortunately KAI has never listened and responded to my wants or needs.

So maybe in lieu of hitting ALL of my wants, (nay, needs), we could at least see a larger copper version....heavily milled for weight. And somewhat of an increase in steel....though M390 would be amazing! Of course a well tuned KVT would also be appreciated. Is that too much to ask for a $60 knife? ;) :D
 
so looks like kershaws doing it for massdrop.....normal or standard size in copper...3.25" blade version

cut and paste from their site.......and with weight.....unless who ever typed this got it all wrong? I got no idear just sharing info....

Specs
  • Kershaw
  • Blade: D2 steel
  • Blade type: Drop-point
  • Grind: Flat
  • Handle: Copper
  • Lock: Sub frame lock
  • Blade thickness: 0.11 in (2.8 mm)
  • Handle thickness: 0.4 in (1 cm)
  • Pocket clip for ambidextrous tip-up carry
  • Blade length: 3.25 in (8.3 cm)
  • Handle length: 4.25 in (10.8 cm)
  • Overall length: 7.5 in (19.1 cm)
  • Weight: 3.2 oz (92 g)
 
jbmonkey said:
so looks like kershaws doing it for massdrop.....normal or standard size in copper...3.25" blade version

cut and paste from their site.......and with weight.....unless who ever typed this got it all wrong? I got no idear just sharing info....

Specs
  • Kershaw
  • Blade: D2 steel
  • Blade type: Drop-point
  • Grind: Flat
  • Handle: Copper
  • Lock: Sub frame lock
  • Blade thickness: 0.11 in (2.8 mm)
  • Handle thickness: 0.4 in (1 cm)
  • Pocket clip for ambidextrous tip-up carry
  • Blade length: 3.25 in (8.3 cm)
  • Handle length: 4.25 in (10.8 cm)
  • Overall length: 7.5 in (19.1 cm)
  • Weight: 3.2 oz (92 g)
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I see that listing, but it looks to me like the standard Copper Natrix and they just got the specs wrong.

ETA: Dammit, good price though and I JUST bought a knife.
 
Been watching these for a while. The copper is the one that finally got me to hit "buy."

By no means do I think they were getting it wrong though. Just not for me. Looks to me like Kershaw is just following the tried and true biz model of many budget Kershaw knives before, like the Blur. Just keep changing colors and blade finishes, people who like it will want to "collect em all." Occasionally throw in an upgraded steel or handle material, you'll pull in a few more people that were otherwise sitting out.
 
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jbmonkey said:
so looks like kershaws doing it for massdrop.....normal or standard size in copper...3.25" blade version

cut and paste from their site.......and with weight.....unless who ever typed this got it all wrong? I got no idear just sharing info....

Specs
  • Kershaw
  • Blade: D2 steel
  • Blade type: Drop-point
  • Grind: Flat
  • Handle: Copper
  • Lock: Sub frame lock
  • Blade thickness: 0.11 in (2.8 mm)
  • Handle thickness: 0.4 in (1 cm)
  • Pocket clip for ambidextrous tip-up carry
  • Blade length: 3.25 in (8.3 cm)
  • Handle length: 4.25 in (10.8 cm)
  • Overall length: 7.5 in (19.1 cm)
  • Weight: 3.2 oz (92 g)
Click to expand...

Something doesn’t make sense? How is a 3.25 inch Kershaw copper Natrix lighter than the smaller Copper natrix available outside massdrop?
 
They (massdrop) are claiming that the sub-frame lock is the reason for the light weight?

Also of note - this model is speed-safe assisted (which I guess is easy enough to de-assist).
 
Lapedog said:
Something doesn’t make sense? How is a 3.25 inch Kershaw copper Natrix lighter than the smaller Copper natrix available outside massdrop?
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? just copied and pasted what they had...
 
jbmonkey said:
? just copied and pasted what they had...
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I’m not saying you got it wrong. I’m saying someone who put that data on the website did.

I mean it is possible they found some way to give a larger model coper natrx some crazy level of skeletonization but idk. I’m also wondering of this is for real, a 3.25 inch copper natrix I would be all over.
 
Lapedog said:
I’m not saying you got it wrong. I’m saying someone who put that data on the website did.

I mean it is possible they found some way to give a larger model coper natrx some crazy level of skeletonization but idk. I’m also wondering of this is for real, a 3.25 inch copper natrix I would be all over.
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it would be nice if the fella that participates or has participated in the past here and tied to massdrop would pitch in here and clear it up. I cant remember his screen name or I'd link him to this.....

yep..a full size in copper I'd be all over as well.
 
I don’t take issue with their model/variant selection, the issue is the very sketchy QC and some potential design issues (the stop pin especially).

Also, there is a post on the Kai blog about the lineage from 0777 to natrix, in a group shot they show numerous color combinations that aren’t on sale yet, like 5 different CF versions for instance.
 
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massdrop deal or version of it......whatever actually it was..... is dead now. they turned it off.
 
Lapedog said:
Something doesn’t make sense? How is a 3.25 inch Kershaw copper Natrix lighter than the smaller Copper natrix available outside massdrop?
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I'm betting those specs all match up perfectly with the original Natrix, though. I suspect someone snagged the ad copy for the wrong product when they were posting it.
 
jbmonkey said:
it would be nice if the fella that participates or has participated in the past here and tied to massdrop would pitch in here and clear it up. I cant remember his screen name or I'd link him to this.....

yep..a full size in copper I'd be all over as well.
Click to expand...
@Massdrop
 
I don't think KAI is mishandling that knife at all.

Folks who know and want high quality will buy a ZT.

Folks that buy a Kershaw at the Kershaw price and expect it to be a secret ZT will only have themselves to blame.

If KAI reduced the quality of ZT to that of Kershaw and kept the prices the same then there'd be a reason to cry wolf.
 
Danke42 said:
I don't think KAI is mishandling that knife at all.

Folks who know and want high quality will buy a ZT.

Folks that buy a Kershaw at the Kershaw price and expect it to be a secret ZT will only have themselves to blame.

If KAI reduced the quality of ZT to that of Kershaw and kept the prices the same then there'd be a reason to cry wolf.
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Agreed 100%.

I will say that if Kershaw put D2 or even VG10 into some of these knives, I WOULD BUY THEM!!!!! I would have no issue with a $40-$60 Kershaw with one of those steels, because it's not like the designs are poor! Some of them are actually pretty neat, but when the most important part of a knife (the blade) is the area wherein they cheaped out, just makes it not a worthy purchase.
 
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