Is it normal for a lockbar to dent like this?

[kreole]

I have to ask but how many of you guys posting these damaged looking lock faces have spine whacked or spine tapped your folders? The damage looks to be something that could only be achieved by just such a shock trauma to the lock face to me other than the slightly rounded off edges where the blade would rub it as its approaching the detent ball in rotation. Some of the indenting and what looks to be chip outs of the titanium I really have to question. I'm not saying you did anything but I have seen spine taps and particularly "whacks" do that in testing locks at times. Its the only way I know of that you can seriously indent a lock face or chip out material like some of these pictures show. Again, though I'm not saying you did that. Just saying its what would enter my mind to look at it if it were sent back to me after it was purchased.

STR

I have never spine tapped/whacked any knife I own. I leave "testing" knives beyond actually using them to the people on the forum

Steps to resolving a problem with a CRK product:

1. Call (or email) CRK with your issue.
2. Wait for a response.
3. Follow their recommendations
4. Post about how happy you are that your problem is fixed.

These things will typically not resolve your problem:

1. Ranting
2. Polling
3. Discussion

We cannot tell you what's wrong with your knife. We can speculate and offer opinions, but these are opinionated speculations and speculative opinions which may or may not be correct.

Several people have stated it looks find. Others have stated you might have a bad heat treatment. Still others (any myself) say it looks like abuse. Your best course of action is to contact CRK (you have) and follow what they believe is the best course of action (probably send it in).

If you buy a new BMW but one of the wheels wiggles a bit, are you just going to let it wiggle right off?

The only reason I made the thread is because there are people here who have seen dozens of Sebenzas in their possession and others have owned a single Sebenza for over a decade. That is a lot of experience to draw from. I suspect I worry excessively about the two I own, as they are the most expensive knives I have ever purchased to the extent that each is over double the cost of any other knife of mine. I have only had any Sebenza for a few months, so I made the thread thinking I was overreacting out of inexperience and that excessive worrying.


Anyway, I was in contact with Mr. Reeve, and he related what was expected from here. He said the lock bar should not look like it does without extreme flicking. When I said it is basically impossible to flick, he said it shouldn't look like that short of obsessively opening and closing it for 20,000 times or more. Being three weeks old, that would mean opening and closing it around 1000 times a day, which would indeed be obsessive and not something I even have the time for, never mind something I would do. I asked if excessive tension from the lock bar could be a culprit, and he said it could not be to the extent of denting to this lock bar. He related that they always give the benefit of doubt to the customer but believed it to be a mistake of mine (put in a nicer way). Of course, as with anything I do, if the mistake of mine, I would very much like to know so that I do not continue to make it. I will send the knife in for them to look at, at the suggestion of Mr. Reeve. Given that it can't have seen 1000 openings never mind 20,000, upon seeing it themselves, I hope they will be able to relate the real problematic action I am performing so that I know exactly what not to do. (I really have no idea--hence the thread--given that this knife has seen exactly what my older small Insingo has seen but to a lesser extent, yet the Insingo looks just like in Martinus's pictures.)



edit: For what they're worth (i.e., so you know I'm not full of it ), here are pictures of my small Insingo, which I've owned for a few months and was born in May. It is practically flawless with just a little mark on the part facing the tang and no denting at all ( even better than Martinus's, but of course it's only half as old). It's been the only knife in my pocket since it arrived.

 

[crackerjax]

Bad heat treat for sure or bad lock angles do you have closeup photos of the blade lockside? I don't think in 10 days anyone could make a lock look like this and the rest of the knife be in good shape,spine wacking it that hard would also damage the blade stop.

Josh

 

[JNewell]

My limited $0.02: we all know what a rant looks like, and I did not read any of that in your post. Info from the web is interesting and occasionally useful, but you did the best thing (contacting CRK) and I'm quite sure all will be taken care of completely. Let us know what happens. :thumbup:

 

[STR]

I just wanted to add that my panties are not in a bunch about it!

STR with all due respect, I would never spine whack a 450$ knife. I have other much cheaper knives I can do that too if I truly indeed felt like abusing/destroying a folder.

STR you know from our discussion we had about framelocks that I wont do a spine whack to a knife.

I have never spine tapped/whacked any knife I own. I leave "testing" knives beyond actually using them to the people on the forum

Okay well, I had to ask because I know it was on others minds as well as my own. A lot of folks do this to their knives, many times before they even decide if they are going to keep it or not and this seems to be irregardless of the price they paid. I've seen $1000 folders that people spine tapped or whacked so price has little to do with testing a folder. While I don't agree with repeated whacking of a folder of any kind I don't see the harm in flicking or tapping a blade spine on a folder to test it. I mean I do it to my own and see little in the way of damage from that and after owning several Sebenza models in both large, small, and classic and regular I have not seen any of mine looking the way some of these examples do for the condition of the lock face. It is interesting. Anyway, no offense meant. Just curious thats all. :thumbup:

STR

 

[softrockrenegade]

Here is my 2008 sebenza 21 that has seen heavy use over the last 2 years just for comparisons sake !

 

[kreole]

Bad heat treat for sure or bad lock angles do you have closeup photos of the blade lockside? I don't think in 10 days anyone could make a lock look like this and the rest of the knife be in good shape,spine wacking it that hard would also damage the blade stop.

Josh

I forgot to mention Mr. Reeve said bad lock bar heat treatment also could not be the culprit. He didn't get into specifics, but there is a post by Brad Southard on spyderco.com's forums in a thread on the steel RIL insert for the new RIL Military where he relates that heat treating the lock bar is a matter of putting on a coating that's a few microns thick. Given that the damage is into the lockbar rather than across (I don't think the lockup has moved since hitting about 50%), it makes sense that the heat treatment can't be the root of the issue.

I think the blade tang is much harder than the Ti, and it really doesn't show much wear. The wear on my newer Sebenza with the damage is a little shiny where it contacts the lock bar but not as shiny as on my Insingo (being much newer and used less, that makes sense to me). Regardless, here's a picture:

Okay well, I had to ask because I know it was on others minds as well as my own. A lot of folks do this to their knives, many times before they even decide if they are going to keep it or not and this seems to be irregardless of the price they paid. I've seen $1000 folders that people spine tapped or whacked so price has little to do with testing a folder. While I don't agree with repeated whacking of a folder of any kind I don't see the harm in flicking or tapping a blade spine on a folder to test it. I mean I do it to my own and see little in the way of damage from that and after owning several Sebenza models in both large, small, and classic and regular I have not seen any of mine looking the way some of these examples do for the condition of the lock face. It is interesting. Anyway, no offense meant. Just curious thats all. :thumbup:

STR

No offense taken. Honestly, if I had seen the pictures from someone else like those in my first post before having it happen to me, I wouldn't have believed it was other than abuse because my Insingo looks nothing like that and has had its fair share of work. Short of abuse, I do not understand why it looks that way--hence my confusion and my initial question being whether or not it is normal. I can't fault others for thinking the same thing I would in their/your position.

 

[frontline29]

Bad heat treat for sure or bad lock angles do you have closeup photos of the blade lockside? I don't think in 10 days anyone could make a lock look like this and the rest of the knife be in good shape,spine wacking it that hard would also damage the blade stop.

Here's a few picture's of the blade tang and a few more of the overall knife. Just to show you that it is indeed a well looked after knife and has not been abused.
As you can see in the first pic there is a little wear on the tang from where the lock has settled in after it's break in.

Other then that and the wear on the lock this knife is in perfect operating order. And I'm extremely happy with this fine piece of engineering. :thumbup:'s all the way.

Here is my 2008 sebenza 21 that has seen heavy use over the last 2 years just for comparisons sake !

That looks pretty much like the wear on my lock. In my case it seems like the wear is from the lock bar sliding onto the blade just prior to lock up. I don't think I'm going to ponder much more about this. If the lock up stays put where it is then I'll keep using it and not worry about it. I'll just have to keep an eye on it to see what it does for the next little while.

No offense taken. Honestly, if I had seen the pictures from someone else like those in my first post before having it happen to me, I wouldn't have believed it was other than abuse because my Insingo looks nothing like that and has had its fair share of work. Short of abuse, I do not understand why it looks that way--hence my confusion and my initial question being whether or not it is normal. I can't fault others for thinking the same thing I would in their/your position.

I couldn't have said it any better my self. :thumbup:

Thanks for all the help guy's.
Especially those who posted picture of their lock bars for reference. It really put my mind at ease about using this folder. :thumbup:

Godspeed y'all!

 

[crackerjax]

knife looks good! that lock bar being like that is weird to me I have put a lot of my knives through hell I have a small Sebenza that is carried on duty with me at all times and its seen everything its about 6 years old and the lock does not look like that at all! I would still send it in. A piece of mind is worth the postage. My other idea is. is the lock bar not engaging the blade properly? the angles and clearances are very tight and just perhaps the angle on the blade is a little too steep and the inside of the lock bar is taking all the force of lockup?

 

[frontline29]

Thank you! They are nice knives that's for sure. I'm so glad I finally pulled the trigger to get one!

I was thinking the same thing so I took these pic's

Now if I shine a flash light from the other side to see where in fact the blade is making contact I cannot see any light coming through the lock. It's like once the lock is engaged the blade and lock bar are making full contact. Which would make the wear even and not focused in one place. I really do think that the wear is from the lock bar sliding onto the blade just prior to lock up.

But again you could be right. I can only speculate. I'm gonna see what they say about it whenever I receive their email.

 

[marthinus]

Here is my Insingo after the 3m fall onto bricks.

http://199.231.142.3/forums/showpost.php?p=8453090&postcount=1

and here it is now.

I can unfortunatly not send the knife back at the moment as I do not have the cash. I will use it till there might be a problem, but the knife still fnctions perfectly, no blade play. I do flick the knife sometimes, look at SoLo's videos, I do the same method. No wrist wacking the crap out of any knife.

 

[frontline29]

I will use it till there might be a problem, but the knife still fnctions perfectly, no blade play.

I'm going to do the same. Like yours my knife still functions flawlessly.

I'm not going to worry about it.
Like I said, I was more curious about it then anything.

Mr reeve, if your reading this please disregard the email I sent to you a few days ago.

All is good with this Sebenza! :thumbup:

 

[STR]

Thank you! They are nice knives that's for sure. I'm so glad I finally pulled the trigger to get one!

I was thinking the same thing so I took these pic's

Now if I shine a flash light from the other side to see where in fact the blade is making contact I cannot see any light coming through the lock. It's like once the lock is engaged the blade and lock bar are making full contact. Which would make the wear even and not focused in one place.

Yep. Thats the magic of owning a Reeve Sebenza. I've done that flashlight trick with countless knives from all manner of price points and you'll be hard pressed to find a better more evenly distributed larger foot print lock contact than the one on a Sebbie. Its the standard for more than just that of course but thats one of the key differences you'll note between CRK's and others.

STR

 

[Incahiker]

Yep. Thats the magic of owning a Reeve Sebenza. I've done that flashlight trick with countless knives from all manner of price points and you'll be hard pressed to find a better more evenly distributed larger foot print lock contact than the one on a Sebbie. Its the standard for more than just that of course but thats one of the key differences you'll note between CRK's and others.

STR

Yup... like the bradly alias. Only a tiny portion of the tang touched the lockbar before the lockbar rouded off to the back. I hated that about the alias... always bothered me. That is before I ever got a sebenza.