Is N690CO a super steel.

In my experience, N690Co is somewhere around VG10 and (probably, the good heat-treated) 440C. I have only one (small) knife in N690Co and I have been using it daily for the small tasks a small fixed EDC can handle (way more than letter opening but shy of shredding more than a dozen beer cardboard packs...). After the initial reprofiling and polishing of the bevels, I've used it for months without ever sharpening again. A quick strop on a belt was enough to keep it shaving sharp. In my book, this is a great steel. Just my two pences....
 
bodog said:
Thanks for bringing that up. Perfect example, though I don't think you meant it that way. Seriously, great analogy. People say "lamborghini? Man, that must be a sweet ride for all kinds of rough stuff, it must be if it's that expensive! Talk about a grail off road ride!" But then when put to some real work in a real world environment for which it was built, people thought the much less sexy and MUCH less prestigious humvee was actually better for the job at hand.

http://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Lam...er-H1-performance-wise-when-going-off-roading

https://grrc.goodwood.com/road/news...-army-humvee-catch-though#EitBLAZXQ6lwAaTT.97

"The LM002 turned out not be be that adept as a tool for covering ground in the Middle East (it was originally aimed at companies in the oil-exploration business). Having failed in the primary task it was built for..."

"The Humvee by comparison wasn’t much of a dragster and had zero exotic appeal. However it was extremely tough, very good at negotiating awkward terrain, required little maintenance compared to the LM002..."

Now, back to knives, and thanks for the slow pitch.
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I was just joking around. I know when you said lamborghini you were meaning the sports cars. But knowing they made a truck I couldnt resist. All I know is when I decide to buy something I am the one who decides what I buy. I dont blame others for my choices. And I take responsibility if I fail to do adequate research and simply listen to praise. And either way, Im not going to hold a grudge just because MY expectations arent met as I know there will be plenty of people who are perfectly happy with their lamborghinis regardless of how I feel about them. No sense in trying to change their minds. Grown adults are buying the things and Its not my job to save them from something they very well may be perfectly happy with despite my feelings.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I was just joking around. I know when you said lamborghini you were meaning the sports cars. But knowing they made a truck I couldnt resist. All I know is when I decide to buy something I am the one who decides what I buy. I dont blame others for my choices. And I take responsibility if I fail to do adequate research and simply listen to praise. And either way, Im not going to hold a grudge just because MY expectations arent met as I know there will be plenty of people who are perfectly happy with their lamborghinis regardless of how I feel about them. No sense in trying to change their minds. Grown adults are buying the things and Its not my job to save them from something they very well may be perfectly happy with despite my feelings.
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You say that like most people know that there are differences to begin with. Until they get into the hobby most people only know that there are stainless and not stainless steels. We SHOULD be helping new people understand there are differences. Most people come here to see if a brand is any good, not to find out the differences in steels. That comes later. Telling them to act like grown adults and to automatically know something is like telling a 2 year old to run in the Olympics. I guess you telling other grown adults to F off and that it's their fault and me saying I'd like to help where I can is the difference between us and why you're always so hostile when people talk about why "x" brand isn't that good or whatever. You expect that they should find out in their own like they're already willing to drop major coinage on knives to check out various nuances. I'm pragmatic enough to know that most people think junk knives are usually good enough and that a 100 dollars should buy perfection. It's just not the case and you know it. I'm at least willing to talk about it objectively without attacking someone when the find a fault with a knife that, to them, costs a ridiculous amount. Even with a 250 or 300 dollar knife there are imperfections and a company may let you down. Yes, people should absolutely know that. All these people raving about brand x without any justification hurts new people more than helps.
 
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bodog said:
You say that like most people know that there are differences to begin with. Until they get into the hobby most people only know that there are stainless and not stainless steels. We SHOULD be helping new people understand there are differences. Most people come here to see if a brand is any good, not to find out the differences in steels. That comes later. Telling them to act like grown adults and to automatically know something is like telling a 2 year old to run in the Olympics. I guess you telling other grown adults to F off and that it's their fault and me saying I'd like to help where I can is the difference between us and why you're always so hostile when people talk about why "x" brand isn't that good or whatever. You expect that they should find out in their own like they're already willing to drop major coinage on knives to check out various nuances. I'm pragmatic enough to know that most people think junk knives are usually good enough and that a 100 dollars should buy perfection. It's just not the case and you know it. I'm at least willing to talk about it objectively without attacking someone when the find a fault with a knife that, to them, costs a ridiculous amount. Even with a 250 or 300 dollar knife there are imperfections and a company may let you down. Yes, people should absolutely know that. All these people raving about brand x without any justification hurts new people more than helps.
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I think once you join a knife forum you have crossed that threshold. The thing I think you always fail to understand is that none of us are knife gurus. None of us can tell another person what will or wont work for them. Even if you buy a knife and absolutely hate it that doesnt make your opinion fact. It just means that for some reason you didnt like the knife. Someone else may be completely happy. What if in your pursuit to "save" others from themselves you unwittingly turn them off of something that would actually fit their needs and their desires equally well despite your feelings otherwise. One has to ask themself, are you really trying to save these new people or are you seeking verification of what you think you all ready know?

See in my many years as a collector there has only been one constant and that is that I am ever evolving and changing. What I like today I will not tomorrow. And likewise what I hated yesterday very well may become my favorite tomorrow. Some tend to believe in absolutes. They buy a knife, it doesnt work for them for some reason and they seem to take personal offense. They then make it a lifes mission to "teach" others what they have learned. The problem with that mentality is when you decide to let that negativity become your motivation the lines of what is opinion and what is fact get blurred. And I see no service being done by trying to force your opinions on others.

In most cases I dont tell anyone to F off unless in the appropriate areas. What I do do Is try to walk a middle ground and whenever I speak about a specific knife or brand I try to always be clear that I am expressing my opinion. I use that language so that these new people will know that at the end of the day the choice is theirs. And it not for me to tell them what they want. And I truly do feel that if a new person sees nothing but negativity from someone about certain brands and they see that it runs deeper than just polite advice they will not take you as seriously as you might hope. Yes people come here for answers. And many who start out are less than educated. And that is what they need. An education. NOT a lecture. And you cant educate people if you are incapable of being honest with yourself and separate fact from emotion.

You also have to ask yourself is there really some conspiracy? How can a brand that is really as bad as you would like to believe become the behemoth it does without there being some truth to it even if you cant see it? I dont attack anyone because they dislike a knife and/or are disappointed. I will get on someones case if they seek out threads about a certain brand in order to preach. Because there comes a time when what happened three years ago becomes obsolete as it doesnt represent what is being made today and at what quality standard. And sometimes things you think are a problem are a non issue for others so again you arent saving anyone if they dont agree with what is or isnt proper. And to those people their raving is justified. And I would argue anyone who truly was being objective would refrain from using language like "ridiculous" to describe anything as it is a clear inflammatory comment born out of their own angst. And one might argue the reason why reaching the newcomers is so important is because its the only group willing to listen to them anymore.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
I think once you join a knife forum you have crossed that threshold. The thing I think you always fail to understand is that none of us are knife gurus. None of us can tell another person what will or wont work for them. Even if you buy a knife and absolutely hate it that doesnt make your opinion fact. It just means that for some reason you didnt like the knife. Someone else may be completely happy. What if in your pursuit to "save" others from themselves you unwittingly turn them off of something that would actually fit their needs and their desires equally well despite your feelings otherwise. One has to ask themself, are you really trying to save these new people or are you seeking verification of what you think you all ready know?

See in my many years as a collector there has only been one constant and that is that I am ever evolving and changing. What I like today I will not tomorrow. And likewise what I hated yesterday very well may become my favorite tomorrow. Some tend to believe in absolutes. They buy a knife, it doesnt work for them for some reason and they seem to take personal offense. They then make it a lifes mission to "teach" others what they have learned. The problem with that mentality is when you decide to let that negativity become your motivation the lines of what is opinion and what is fact get blurred. And I see no service being done by trying to force your opinions on others.

In most cases I dont tell anyone to F off unless in the appropriate areas. What I do do Is try to walk a middle ground and whenever I speak about a specific knife or brand I try to always be clear that I am expressing my opinion. I use that language so that these new people will know that at the end of the day the choice is theirs. And it not for me to tell them what they want. And I truly do feel that if a new person sees nothing but negativity from someone about certain brands and they see that it runs deeper than just polite advice they will not take you as seriously as you might hope. Yes people come here for answers. And many who start out are less than educated. And that is what they need. And education. NOT a lecture. And you cant educate people if you are incapable of being honest with yourself and separating fact from emotion.

You also have to ask yourself is there really some conspiracy? How can a brand that is really as bad as you would like to believe become the behemoth it does without there being some truth to it even if you cant see it? I dont attack anyone because they dislike a knife and/or are disappointed. I will get on someones case if they seek out threads about a certain brand in order to preach. Because there comes a time when what happened three years ago becomes obsolete as it doesnt represent what is being made today and at what quality standard. And sometimes things you think are a problem are a non issue for others so again you arent saving anyone if they dont agree with what is or isnt proper. And to those people their raving is justified. And I would argue anyone who truly was being objective would refrain from using language like "ridiculous" to describe anything as it is a clear inflammatory comment born out of their own angst. And one might argue the reason why reaching the newcomers is so important is because its the only group willing to listen to them anymore.
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Good marketing to a base that collects rather than uses in accordance with their prescribed goals. Not that I have a problem with any company in particular, rather a problem with people who buy a knife made to perform in a certain manner, don't use it in that manner, and then speak about how great that knife is. Let's use Jeep as an example. They're known to be hard, rough duty vehicles, but even they had bad years and bad products where they serviced soccer moms and investors more than the people they claimed to be catering to. Most jeep owners aren't afraid to say it. Some of their products and how they were marketed was bullshit. Some of their products lived up to the claims. An off road aficionado commenting about how crappy Jeep was for peddling something like the liberty to 16 year old girls is probably justified, and others interested in the off road hobby would agree. Here it's another story. Can you imagine a 16 year old who only drives her liberty to school jumping into an off road in forum talking about how great her jeep liberty is? She'd get crushed. Here, other places too, people defend that crap. How about we just be honest about how little a lot of these rough knives get used? Let's be honest and say a lot of these knives are nothing more than collector's pieces. There's no shame in that as long as people state their intentions.

Is N690CO a bad steel? Hell no. Is it something that should be used for every purpose? Hell no. I'm betting that if certain companies decided to use it, it'd be a super steel real quick regardless of its pros and cons. That's a problem, and it's pretty stupid.
 
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jonnyt16 said:
I'll still take my Jeep over those two any day of the week.

Jeephunt5_zps314dd47a.jpg
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You speaketh the Truth. Jeeps Rule......

Oh and no N690 is not a super steel. There is no such thing as a super steel. If there was, it would be the only steel because it would be better than all other steels in every category there is. So, No, thread over...;)
 
Bohler N690 (N690CO, N690BO) is a great conventional (non-powdered) stainless steel that's well-rounded with different heat treat to offer great toughness or wear resistance for both folders and fixed blades. It's also a value-priced steel.

Used by many custom makers here (Curtiss, Begg) and South Africa (Arno Bernard) plus many European knife makers like Boker, Extrema Ratio, Fox and Viper. It's a testament to its versatility that there are so many fixed blades made with N690.
 
bodog said:
Good marketing to a base that collects rather than uses in accordance with their prescribed goals. Not that I have a problem with any company in particular, rather a problem with people who buy a knife made to perform in a certain manner, don't use it in that manner, and then speak about how great that knife is. Let's use Jeep as an example. They're known to be hard, rough duty vehicles, but even they had bad years and bad products where they serviced soccer moms and investors more than the people they claimed to be catering to. Most jeep owners aren't afraid to say it. Some of their products and how they were marketed was bullshit. Some of their products lived up to the claims. An off road aficionado commenting about how crappy Jeep was for peddling something like the liberty to 16 year old girls is probably justified, and others interested in the off road hobby would agree. Here it's another story. Can you imagine a 16 year old who only drives her liberty to school jumping into an off road in forum talking about how great her jeep liberty is? She'd get crushed. Here, other places too, people defend that crap. How about we just be honest about how little a lot of these rough knives get used? Let's be honest and say a lot of these knives are nothing more than collector's pieces. There's no shame in that as long as people state their intentions.

Is N690CO a bad steel? Hell no. Is it something that should be used for every purpose? Hell no. I'm betting that if certain companies decided to use it, it'd be a super steel real quick regardless of its pros and cons. That's a problem, and it's pretty stupid.
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Well you arent saying anything about jeep that doesnt apply to any manufactured item around longer than a decade. There is no such thing as perfect. I think some tend to let marketing go to their head and they read into it too much. If the lady with the jeep liberty is happy with her purchase and enjoys off roading with it then what is the harm in letting her be happy? Why do I have to impart my beliefs and call her ridiculous if that is what makes her happy. Why dont we be honest? Well first to be honest you have to separate fact from fiction. And to do that you have to stop stereotyping the knives and the people that own them and accept not everyone will agree with what you think is Ideal.

As far as the whole use argument is concerned Im over it and frankly a bit sick of it. Its another argument of no merit used by those who would like to profess superiority over another when it comes to knowledge. And its a flawed argument. The way I see it I dont care what you use your knife for there will always be someone who uses theirs more aggressively than you. But their experiences doing more than you doesnt disqualify you from having an opinion. The problem is the assumption that because people dont agree with you then that must obviously mean they dont use their stuff? Sorry I think that is more ego that rationale.

As far as your comments on if that brand used N690CO it would then be touted as super steel I think you are projecting. Steels get their reputation long before a production company starts using them. Honestly I just dont see what is wrong with liking what you like and letting people be content with that. People like what they like. And you may think certain brands and their fans are stupid. But its just as likely that the feeling is mutual. And if the community is what someone really cares about then they should respect those in that community, not try to change them. Sorry but what I seem to feel is that this isnt the case where the underdog speaks up and beats the bully. Its more like the introvert who asks out the most popular girl in school and calls her a bitch for the rest of her life because she rejected him. There are more fish in the sea and maybe more time should be spent on them than the one that got away.
 
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You fellas need to talk about the steel and not each other. Last warning.
 
Comparing all the steels currently out there, N690Co does not perform better than enough of them for me to consider it 'super'. Superheroes are those who are stronger, faster, smarter, better than the rest of the world, thus super steels should also be the same, right? S90V and M390, sure they're super; they perform the same or better than just about any other reasonable knife steel in many categories. N690Co just doesn't go far enough in performance to really stand out, it's a great steel but I can't call it 'super'.
 
I doubt since this thread started two years ago, there is much relevance relative to the orginal OP. But, the question comes up from time to time and I have no issue buying a knife made with M690Co. The Italian knife manufactures use this steel. I assume it is commonly available there. Much like 440C as I understand it which is an okay steel.
 
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