Is Sebenza the Best?

[David1967]

If Sebenza was the first knife I ever bought I would have saved thousands... But at the same time I would not be willing to pay retail price for it.

 

[James0723]

Heres a quote from Sal Glesser owner of Spyderco talking about Sebenzas.

More profit is usually associated with higher price. That's normal. Profit is usually a percentage of sales price. To think that a high priced auto should garner the same proft as a low priced auto is not in accord with business. It might be the same percentage, but being more expensive, it will be more profit.

Unless you are a manufacturer, familiar with close tolerance manufacturing of heat treated steel & Titanium parts, you are not likely to be able to see all of the differences between one of Chris' knives and others. For example; CRK keeps 0.0005 tolerance on surface grinding. That's one sixth the thickness of a hair. Do you have the knowledge and equipment to discover that tolerance?

In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much.

Rarely do you pay for the "name". That's a bull**** sales pitch made up by the ignorant claiming to offer the same for less. Money valuation between countries might offer a "deal" for a while until the money value balances, but all in all, you will get what you pay for.

I've seen this quote before. It seems like Glesser is saying that unless you're a manufacturer very knowledgeable about knives you won't be able to notice a difference.

I feel a little hesitant to say anything negative about the Sebenza now, since I have been labeled a troll for it and people are trying to intimidate me into silence, but from other things I've seen and read I get the impression that the s30v on the Sebenzas does not have quite the cutting ability or edge retention of most other s30v used in normal production knives.

 

[gajinoz]

I feel a little hesitant to say anything negative about the Sebenza now, since I have been labeled a troll for it and people are trying to intimidate me into silence, but from other things I've seen and read I get the impression that the s30v on the Sebenzas does not have quite the cutting ability or edge retention of most other s30v used in normal production knives.

Rubbish. You were compared to a troll because you tried to sideline the thread by making irrelevant comments about a FIXED blade knife that had nothing to do with the topic of this thread and you also brought up the subject of noss and his "tests" which is, to say the very least, an extremely controversial subject here.

Nobody is intimidating you into silence. Stay on topic and keep your opinions relevant and you won't have a problem. This thread is about the Sebenza, offer your opinion on that.

 

[Lycosa]

The BEST, rides on one's person.

 

[Bastid]

For what it is worth. I own a lot of knives both custom and factory. By a lot let's say if I had not sold some at times over the years the number runs into well over 1000.

Chris Reeves knives stand alone when it comes to the quality of a production knife. No company comes close to those tolerances and consistency. (Period end of sentence.)

As far as Noss tests. They are a joke to anyone with any legitimate amount of cutlery knowledge.

That is based on a lot of real world experience that spans a few decades. Feel free to take it for what you wish.

 

[marthinus]

I've seen this quote before. It seems like Glesser is saying that unless you're a manufacturer very knowledgeable about knives you won't be able to notice a difference.

I do not agree with you statement. I read what Mr. Glesser states as follows: If you want a knife made by the same tolerances as the sebenza by any production company....then expect to pay as much as for the sebenza!

I feel a little hesitant to say anything negative about the Sebenza now, since I have been labeled a troll for it and people are trying to intimidate me into silence, but from other things I've seen and read I get the impression that the s30v on the Sebenzas does not have quite the cutting ability or edge retention of most other s30v used in normal production knives.

S30V was designed by Chris Reeve with Crucible steel and it is good quality stuff. He is the original, others have found ways to improve on the bar he put up there. Eg. CPM S30V. It has seen some refinement over the years.

 

[Bastid]

I've seen this quote before. It seems like Glesser is saying that unless you're a manufacturer very knowledgeable about knives you won't be able to notice a difference.

I do not see that in what Sal said at all. As a matter of fact, I think that conclusion of his statement is way off base. It seems to me that Sal is saying that if a company was to try to match the quality of the Sebenza they would have to charge about the same price if they wanted to actually be able to stay in business (i.e. make a profit.)

 

[gajinoz]

I was visiting a friend of mine in Sydney a while ago. He is not into knives but he, like me, appreciates high quality objects. He is also a very talented engineer and knows when he is looking at quality. I showed him my Sebenza and he was immediately able to tell that it was a high quality device made with care and attention to detail.

Is it the best knife? The question can't really be answered. First of all you need to have a common definition of "best". Best for what? Best how? Best when? Best under what conditions? Is it the best knife for filleting a fish? Probably not. Is it the best knife for hammering through a block of hardwood? Probably not. Is it an extremely high quality pocket knife that will easily do what any other pocket knife might be expected to do? Yes, it is. Is it the best knife for YOU? Maybe, maybe not, only YOU can answer that. For me it's worth owning simply because I like high quality products apart from any other abilities it might have.

All my tools are the best, (for my purposes), I can afford to buy. The Sebenza fits into that philosophy.

 

[mmarkh]

I do not see that in what Sal said at all. As a matter of fact, I think that conclusion of his statement is way off base. It seems to me that Sal is saying that if a company was to try to match the quality of the Sebenza they would have to charge about the same price if they wanted to actually be able to stay in business (i.e. make a profit.)

That is the way I interpreted also. Super close tolerances mean that either they take painstakingly long to finish or a lot will be discarded if it doesn't make the grade. That is one reason for the cost.

 

[SteelSnob]

I feel a little hesitant to say anything negative about the Sebenza now, since I have been labeled a troll for it and people are trying to intimidate me into silence, but from other things I've seen and read I get the impression that the s30v on the Sebenzas does not have quite the cutting ability or edge retention of most other s30v used in normal production knives.

What gives you that impression? Do you even know the contributing factors to edge retention or cutting ability? If you don't answer then it's safe to assume you don't.

 

[SteelSnob]

Would you mind telling me what those things you did in the field are? I'm just curious.

 

[Fooj]

I used to work in the disk drive business, where the products need to be creatively simple, ultra-high precision, and super consistent. I took my newly acquired Sebenza into the tooling design group, where some of the top engineers in the business design the tools that build the disk drives -- talk about high precision squared! After the tooling designers tinkered with the Sebenza, the summarizing comment was, "This is how we would design a knife."

 

[Stainz]

I have really mistreated one S30V bladed knife, cutting things I wouldn't have considered with my old 110. I've touched it up twice on my Sharpmaker in it's 2.5 yr. I can't imagine using a $400 knife for those chores - at <$40 at Wally World, that Spydie Native was a deal. It's 'backup', another Native, sits unused. Of course they aren't the same... the Sebbies use a finer sharpening grind I'm sure. Those Ti handles/frame... wow! Still, I wouldn't cut down an appliance box or slice a radiator hose with a Sebbie. I might open a bill with a Sebbie - or slice an apple. What of my anal nature about having 'backups'?

No, I got great buys on some Benchmades, etc - still, a $160 gets carried in my good britches. I'd look at and fondle a Sebbie - and carry it infrequently, showing it when I needed to make a statement, but always mindful of marring it. It's lose would be horrendous. I changed my mind... not for me.

Stainz

 

[hbui]

I am new with knives but I bought a benchmade and a sebenza pretty much the same time. The benchmade came first and I was thrilled with it. The next day the sebenza came in and I couldn't believe the difference. That was 3 CRKs ago, 2 more sebs and a green beret . Didn't regret paying that much for them at all.

I always feel that do your research and buy the best you can afford and it will be the best for you.

I am more than happy with my sebenzas.

 

[allenC]

Is the Sebenza really the best folding knife money can buy (production knives, of course)?

No.

Compared to other production knives in the same price range or even less (around $250, or, obviously, less), things like Mcustas (the MC-14 series), high end Spydercos (Phoenix, perhaps), Klotzlis, and plenty of others, is a small Sebenza really going to be noticeably better?

No.


Yes, I once owned a Sebenza.
Yes, I paid full retail for it.
No, it was not worth the asking price IMO.
Yes, many knives perform just as well as the Sebenza.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I do not agree with you statement. I read what Mr. Glesser states as follows: If you want a knife made by the same tolerances as the sebenza by any production company....then expect to pay as much as for the sebenza!



S30V was designed by Chris Reeve with Crucible steel and it is good quality stuff. He is the original, others have found ways to improve on the bar he put up there. Eg. CPM S30V. It has seen some refinement over the years.

im not sure i understand what you are saying here. crucible was the original manufacturer of cpm s30v.

cpm=crucible particle metallurgy.

 

[CL01]

I do not see that in what Sal said at all. As a matter of fact, I think that conclusion of his statement is way off base. It seems to me that Sal is saying that if a company was to try to match the quality of the Sebenza they would have to charge about the same price if they wanted to actually be able to stay in business (i.e. make a profit.)

Maybe this is off topic, but if you find it hard to understand why the tight tolerances, quality, & "consistency" mean anything, I do think you have try or handle one.

I wend for quite some time W/O a Seb. Then I got one a few yrs back. My 7th Seb is coming tomorrow, hopefully. However, prior to this, I honestly thought that a Seb couldn't be "better" (Admittedly in my opinion only) than a Bradley Alias, BM Skirmish (Reg. & mini), or some other similar Ti frame-lock knife (I've also owned 6 SnGs/PTs, too). For me, it's everything about it, but what really sets it apart is the consistency from one Seb to another. I'm sure many of us have had Spyderco, BM, Kershaw, Bradley, & even a Strider folder, then got another one down the road, & they were different. The Sebs just seem to be the same smooth, classy knife (Centered blade, nice grinds, etc) from one knife to another.

I didn't really understand this until I got a Seb, but I'm continually reminded of the "little" things when I handle a custom slip-joint vs a production one.

As to getting banned or making your own opinions, there's a difference between "your" observation, experience, etc. & your 2nd or 3rd hand opinion of someone else's findings/opinion, especially when your opinions were on an entirely different type of knife (FB). That's kind of like saying the performance of a Corvette sucks based on your reading someone else's opinion of a (Insert name of any sucky Chevy product). Big difference.

 

[Gator97]

Your opinion would be more valid if you've owned, or at least held and used one.

For the record, I did own both, Large and small. Large Sebenza for only 3 days, didn't really like it, small for several years as my edc.

And as for the OP's original question "Is the Sebenza really the best folding knife money can buy?", there are 2 possible answers: Objective and Subjective.

The objective answer is that yes, the Sebenza is pretty much the best made production knife that money can buy.

Hardly objective at all. For one, what is the best isn't really defined. My criteria, yours and OPs can be very different. Second, you state that your opinion is the only objective one, which is pretty much never objective.

CR holds to tighter tolerances, QC, fit and finish, etc, tighter than any other production knife manufacturer out there. This is fact.

Agreed, they do have very high quality. However, OP wasn't specifically about fit and finish, but in general, best knife, which does include knife performance, ergonomics and other factors.

Opinion does not apply.

They always do. This isn't religion after all, just a production knife...

 

[Gator97]

S30V was designed by Chris Reeve with Crucible steel and it is good quality stuff. He is the original, others have found ways to improve on the bar he put up there. Eg. CPM S30V. It has seen some refinement over the years.

For one, CPM S30V and S30V are the same steel, former being the full or the official name of that steel.

Second, Chris Reeve was one of the many knfiemakers approached by Crucible during the research and development phase of that steel, and that list includes very well known makers: Phil Wilson, Sal Glesser, Ernest Emerson, Tony Marfione, William Harsey Jr., Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom, and Paul Bos...
I don't know why it gets attributed solely to Reeve so often. I don't think he claims that?

As far as S30V goes it is pretty good, but it is no wonder steel. Eventually it came out quite far from what the original goals were. At least it is nowhere near in terms of toughness compared to A2 and CPM 3V.

I don't think 58-59HRC is optimal for light use folder as Sebenza. 1-2 pt in hardness would make a significant difference. They(CRK) have their reasons for keeping it softer, but that doesn't change the result.

 

[Dagon]

I see several statements like "The objective answer is that yes, the Sebenza is pretty much the best made production knife that money can buy. CR holds to tighter tolerances, QC, fit and finish, etc, tighter than any other production knife manufacturer out there. This is fact. Opinion does not apply.".

Ok, first: I do not have a Sebenza, but I examined them several times closely over time. Really nicely made indeed. The design isn't really for me, but as a knife nut I will eventually have to buy & try one for a few months. Perhaps it will eventually grow on me.
Now, I do have 4 Klotzlis, 3 of which with a titanium handle. I don't think that anyone would say that their build quality, fit and finish and the like is in ANY way lower than a Sebenza. I consider them equal in those areas, but geared towards a more "gentlemeny" audience, even if they can be used pretty hard.

Also, at a knife fair I could examine the esoteric Rockstead knives closely. I think that, if possible, they may be even on a higher plane of fit and finish and general precision than CRK and Klotzli. Granted, this is only an impression from playing a bit with them but any knife nut would start drooling when (s)he holds one.