Is sharpening overrated?

OHHH, now I get it.

Yes I'm referring to bringing life back to the edge inbetween sharpenings. Meaning that if my knife, after use for a while, is no longer slicing paper, then I strop (only strop, no stones) to bring it back. Meaning that the strop is something I use regularly to maintain my edge instead of using stones/ceramics, etc.

I see where the confusion was. I was just trying to make the point that I had forgotten how great strops are for this purpose. If you sharpen, can slice paper, then use your nice and lose that paper slicing sharpness, often times all my knives need are a little strop time, nothing more :thumbup:
 
I don't think sharpening itself is overrated, a knife gets dull, you sharpen it. Some people get overly scientific with it. I understand there are some knife steels that are hard to sharpen but everyday steels shouldn't be. With that said I've no experience with the expensive steels. I don't use a blade all day long, just for little daily tasks. The few jobs I've had that required cutting with a knife for most of the day I used a razor utility knife.
For my purpose I like Buck's 420hc because while it doesn't hold it's edge as long as premium steels, I can sharpen it from completely dull to razor sharp with ease. I can even get a working edge on it with a rock off the ground.
I'm considering moving up to something with S30 or S35, just anxious as to if I'll be able to get an edge back on that steel if it became totally dull, which it would eventually. I also doubt I could get an edge on those with a rock. That's right now what's holding me back from moving up.
 
depends on what you do!i have never liked dull knifes or using them and find having them sharp at the ready really helps,so maintenance with the stones and strop is almost always needed,take care of your knifes and they will take care of you,my thoughts.:eagerness:
 
VermontEdge said:
OHHH, now I get it.

Yes I'm referring to bringing life back to the edge inbetween sharpenings. Meaning that if my knife, after use for a while, is no longer slicing paper, then I strop (only strop, no stones) to bring it back. Meaning that the strop is something I use regularly to maintain my edge instead of using stones/ceramics, etc.

I see where the confusion was. I was just trying to make the point that I had forgotten how great strops are for this purpose. If you sharpen, can slice paper, then use your nice and lose that paper slicing sharpness, often times all my knives need are a little strop time, nothing more :thumbup:
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Calc is close. I was actually pondering your stopping points for stropping. I have cut thousands of feet of cardboard with knives and still been able to make clean slices of paper without having to resharpen them. Now, at that point, a stropping will not bring them back to arm shaving sharpness. Somewhere I'm missing something. How much cutting do you get before paper cutting drops to the point you feel the need to strop?
 
I have a blind horse knife in A2. I use it in the fall to process logs of firewood into a bunch of kindling. Basically I baton the crap out of it. My strop has always done a great job of bringing it back after that. No joke!
 
drebs said:
Ya that makes sense i've seen some chefs who use their knifes all day daily who say they only sharpen a handful of times in a year but i guess they are cutting soft things all the time.. and have quality knives. It just seems there is a train of thought out there that once it wont shave take it to the sharpmaker when all it might need is a hone and strop up
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Preparing food isn't much of a challenge for any decent edge.
 
A sharp knife is a good knife...i dont obsess over them shaving hair perfectly or anything like that.
I usually consider it good when I run it on my arm and some of the hairs come off. I only free hand sharpen and dont have any fancy sharpening devices..Iv got a few diamond plates, an india stone and a granite slab that I can tape sand paper to if I want to.
Truth be told, I pretty much only use the coarse and fine diamond plates.. coarse if I need to remove some chips, then a couple of passes on the fine one to maintain a good edge when needed.
 
me2 said:
Any estimate of grit on those? How many passes? How much pressure?
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From what I can find online the black compound is somewhere around 3,000 and the green somewhere around 6,000. I usually do about 20 passes per side of the knife and per compound (meaning 20 passes on the black compound with one side of the knife, then 20 passes on the black with the other side of the knife...etc). If that ever doesn't do it, I throw some wet/dry sandpaper over the leather, anywhere from 600 to 2,000 grit and then work up from there. That really is my primary method of "sharpening", though I don't know if people consider stropping (even with sandpaper) to be full on sharpening.

Anyway, works for me!
 
nzedge said:
A sharp knife is a good knife...i dont obsess over them shaving hair perfectly or anything like that.
I usually consider it good when I run it on my arm and some of the hairs come off. I only free hand sharpen and dont have any fancy sharpening devices..Iv got a few diamond plates, an india stone and a granite slab that I can tape sand paper to if I want to.
Truth be told, I pretty much only use the coarse and fine diamond plates.. coarse if I need to remove some chips, then a couple of passes on the fine one to maintain a good edge when needed.
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I practically use only a new extra coarse and a worn coarse Dia-Sharp... Then occasionally a medium stone that is useful for finishing or removing the wire edge. Coarse diamond wears out quickly to what I consider "fine", and for heavy re-profiling Extra coarse wears out even faster! For a new knife with the typical 20° per side bevel, (which usually means a nutty 30 plus these days) I actually routinely have to buy new extra coarse diamond hones with an incoming new knife...: Nowadays I even order the extra-coarse right along with the new knife, so used I am to crap out of the box edges... Some stuff still has to go to RazorEdgeKnives even with that... Mind you I buy only big fixed blades, and I like 12° per side...

Hair shaving is useless to determine sharpness... I don't know why this bears saying: Daggers often shave hair yet cannot cut anything...

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
I practically use only a new extra coarse and a worn coarse Dia-Sharp... Then occasionally a medium stone that is useful for finishing or removing the wire edge. Coarse diamond wears out quickly to what I consider "fine", and for heavy re-profiling Extra coarse wears out even faster! For a new knife with the typical 20° per side bevel, (which usually means a nutty 30 plus these days) I actually routinely have to buy new extra coarse diamond hones with an incoming new knife...: Nowadays I even order the extra-coarse right along with the new knife, so used I am to crap out of the box edges... Some stuff still has to go to RazorEdgeKnives even with that... Mind you I buy only big fixed blades, and I like 12° per side...

Hair shaving is useless to determine sharpness... I don't know why this bears saying: Daggers often shave hair yet cannot cut anything...

Gaston
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Maybe I'm reading it wrong but are you saying that your XC DMT stones wear out so quickly that you have to purchase a new one with each new knife you buy?
 
As long as the knife has good geometry its gonna cut well despite not being razor sharp.I put emphasis on blade geometry and sometimes regrind my knives when I first get them to get thinner cutting edge that performs so much better.I just touchup blades then,few strokes here and there on sharpmaker on brown rods or something else.As long its shaving hair its good enough for me,even though I get hair whittling edges unintentionally sometimes! In my opinion geometry is the key of everything, even cheap knives from dollar store reground properly perform well!This is a knife enthusiasts forums,and we all love blades and razor sharp edges.:).I could easily get by with cheap knives in kitchen ,edc and any other task,but just love knives and keep buying more!
 
bt93 said:
I'm considering moving up to something with S30 or S35, just anxious as to if I'll be able to get an edge back on that steel if it became totally dull, which it would eventually. I also doubt I could get an edge on those with a rock. That's right now what's holding me back from moving up.
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I haven't tried a rock, but I have been able to get great results on s35vn and s30v with a simple Fallkniven DC3, or DMT diamond stones. It's just like using natural stones, so not much of a learning curve if you already freehand sharpen. That said, the extra edge retention isn't worth turning your life upside down. But if you like something with s35vn, just get a diamond sharpener with it and you won't even spend more time sharpening at all.
 
Dangerously said:
I haven't tried a rock, but I have been able to get great results on s35vn and s30v with a simple Fallkniven DC3, or DMT diamond stones. It's just like using natural stones, so not much of a learning curve if you already freehand sharpen. That said, the extra edge retention isn't worth turning your life upside down. But if you like something with s35vn, just get a diamond sharpener with it and you won't even spend more time sharpening at all.
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Thanks for the info. I will probably stick with what I have. I just trust 420hc, the edge may wear down but sharpeniing is so easy I consider it a non factor. Keep in mind the edge wears down faster compared to premium steel, it actually holds an edge pretty good.
 
lonestar1979 said:
As long as the knife has good geometry its gonna cut well despite not being razor sharp.I put emphasis on blade geometry and sometimes regrind my knives when I first get them to get thinner cutting edge that performs so much better.I just touchup blades then,few strokes here and there on sharpmaker on brown rods or something else.As long its shaving hair its good enough for me,even though I get hair whittling edges unintentionally sometimes! In my opinion geometry is the key of everything, even cheap knives from dollar store reground properly perform well!This is a knife enthusiasts forums,and we all love blades and razor sharp edges.:).I could easily get by with cheap knives in kitchen ,edc and any other task,but just love knives and keep buying more!
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Geometry is truly everything. I can work around the other factors, if the geometry is good.
 
fsatsil said:
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but are you saying that your XC DMT stones wear out so quickly that you have to purchase a new one with each new knife you buy?
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If you reprofile from 20° per side towards 10-12° per side on a 9-10" stainless blade, with an Extra-Coarse 6" Dia-Sharp that has already sharpened one such knife by the same amount, then from the wear on that hone you are looking at 4-5 hours of hard work for a poor result, instead of just one or two hours for a great result... It's that simple, and a hard earned lesson for me...

And I do mean that: Those five hours of work will result in an uneven, assymetrical and inferior result compared to the one-two hours if you use a brand new 6" Xtra coarse...

Since I am lazy and want flawless results quickly, especially with a hard steel like S30V (RJ Martin 10.5" Blackbird) or with D-2 (like the 10" Lile "Mission" I did recently) I always buy two extra-coarse Dia-Sharp 6" hones for each new big knife ($36 per hone: $72 in total for one knife): One hone per side(!) to bring it down from the ridiculous 80° inclusive that the pristine 30 year old pre-dot Lile came with (fortunately on a beautifully thin 0.028" edge bevel shoulder thickness)...

The two Xtra-coarse hones I used for the 10.5" RJ Martin were so worn-out from taking off 8° per side (beautiful job though) they subsequently ruined the 9" Farid 440C FB prototype I tried to sharpen later on with the same two hones...: I sent it for a full re-grind at RazorEdgeKnives, and learned my lesson well: Two new X-tra coarse for each new big knife from now on...

I have no understanding how 20° per side can be considered even remotely useable... Who cares if it shaves: This is not sharpness...: On Randalls 10° per side is virtually bulletproof, and refuses to chip almost no matter the abuse: I have to admit some Custom makers have not proved so solid with the same angle on the same 440 stainless steel, even with thicker edges... Unfortunately again, most Custom makers do a much better job of symmetry and finish than Randall's medieval-level precision (the only thing Randall does fairly well is keeping the edge centered and paralell to the spine: That's about it, very rough otherwise except for the sheath and handles)...

I did buy two new 6" Extra Coarse Dia Sharp hones for the Lile Mission in D-2, from which had to take off over 25° per side, but on a thin edge, and I am glad I did, as the result is good and that thing "ate" the two hones just about dead, one per side, with a good 3 hours...

I hate sending in knives to professionals (they often lose a small bit of length under water-cooled power grinders, which aggravates me no end as often knives are already way under the specified length straight from the factory -especially Randalls!-: I also dislike it when there is a lot of dead space at the tip fo the sheath: Where does the endless shortening end?...).

Taking off 10 or 20° per side, by hand, on a 10 inch stainless blade is a grim job...: $70 of hones on a $1500 knife is a bargain to make life easier...

Gaston
 
This is interesting. I did a similar rebevel. I tried to work the edge thinning it down so not a reprofile. On a early Buck 9" blade of 440C steel. Using the Dia plate 11.5 X 2.5" X coarse.
The edges on those early models came thick perhaps around 20* but they look like a hump near the edge. I took it down to 15* per side. I wouldn't say I was using much pressure on the plate and this ate the plate up. Like you say and it took 2 hours. The plate was new. It's still useful but I can tell it's wore down. If I did it on a 6" plate I can see how it could be shot. So, now for rebevel I do it all on a Norton JUM-3 SiC stone 11.5 X 2.5" the coarse side. Then level it later. I realize I'm somewhat off the topic. Just my experience. DM
 
So, I have for some time suspected the diamonds wear out close to what your saying. Therefore I use them sparingly. DM
 
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