Is there a difference between "survival" and "survivalist" training?

O

oruacat2

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Jul 30, 2009
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Just thinking out loud, as is my curse. :D

On the RAT website, and in some threads on this forum, I see discussions about what I consider "survival training" (firebuilding, signalling, general tips on how to be found or rescued) along with advice/gear for escape-and-evasion (which I think leans more towards "suvivalist") - sometimes within the same conversation. In my humble opinion, the two mindsets completely contradict one another. What do you guys think? Is there a difference, in YOUR opinions?

KD
 
most of the time they're interchangeable, but in certain connotations they are different--especially when media based.

survival = not getting dead when lost in the wilderness, et al...

survivalist = some guy in his bomb shelter with a hoard of spam, potted meat, porno mags, guns and ammo. Just waiting on "TEOTWAWKI".

Atleast that's my opinion. YMMV.
 
The root word of "survivalism" and "survivalist" is "survival." If you're "into survival," as far as I'm concerned, you're into "survivalism" and you're a "survivalist." I don't much care what some paranoid scribbler at some special interest group thinks about it or some lunatron making too much money on Uncle Sugar's payscale, either. To repeat one of the most hated phrases of 2009, "It is what it is."

The problem is, there are lunatic survivalists and racist survivalists and every other kind of survivalists. Just like there are lunatic cops and politicians and racist cops and politicians but for some damned reason when a regular Citizen wants to do something they get lumped in with the dregs..."If you're a 'survivalist' then you're a..." fill in the blank with the demonizing insult of the day.

The worst are the appeasers that run from their own language in the mistaken and misguided attempt to appease the paranoid mental patients in government and special interest groups..."All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

When you tuck your tail and become a bitch for special interest groups, the fight is lost. The people that want to control the populace and don't like these words...they don't care about the words, those are just tools for the moment. They hate what you do. They hate the fact you can defend yourself and when it's all said and done, the only thing you need 911 for is to clean up the mess and because you are forced to report the fact you defended yourself. They despise self-reliance right along with self-defense.

No good will ever come of allowing the extremists in government and special interest to control our language.
 
My brother-in-law accused me of being a survivalist. I was telling him that I feared the possibility of hyperinflation with all the money being printed and borrowed. So I ordered some gold coins, just as an emergency hedge in case the whole darned thing collapses. He said gold would go down. If it does, fine, most of my holdings are not in gold. But the "survivalist" in me says, be ready, just in case. Same with extra canned food, weapons and ammo. Just in case. I sure as heck don't put much stock in what government officials tell me. There they are borrowing and printing funny money like there is no consequence to doing that and I am supposed to panic about some swine flu?
 
When I go out to the woods I go as prepared as I can. I bring food, water, means to create fire and shelter. Do I really need to know how to create or gather these things primitively? Honestly, there is more I'm learning then just the act of building a lean-to or bow-drill. I'm learning how to adapt, improvise and endure. These are skills that I find necessary in the office as well as the woods, as a dad and husband as well as on the trail. The principles are the important thing. Jeff talked about being a "survivalist" by visiting other countries. I'm a "survivalist" when I choose to tell my wife I love casserole, and not that it makes my skin crawl. ;)

It's a mindset that extends to all aspects of life.
 
Horn Dog said:
My brother-in-law accused me of being a survivalist.
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You know what, bring it up again the next time you see/talk with him so he will do it again and then tell him, "Wow, I never thought wanting to survive was a bad thing or something to run from. To me, CPR training is part of 'survivalism.'"

So I ordered some gold coins, just as an emergency hedge in case the whole darned thing collapses. He said gold would go down. If it does, fine, most of my holdings are not in gold.
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He doesn't even understand what he is talking about! Most people don't.

I have not checked the price of gold today or for weeks because I don't make enough to worry about it, but I know what I am talking about... If you paid, say, $1,200.00 for a Krugerrand yesterday, which is probably not too far off...and it is worth half that a year from now, you have lost nothing. Not a cent. Gold is not more expensive, the dollar is worth less. If one ounce of gold is worth half that, $600.00, 12 months from now, that means the dollar is worth twice as much as it is now. That $600.00 you would get by selling your Krugerrand would purchase, roughly, $1,200.00 worth of stuff in today's dollars.

There they are borrowing and printing funny money like there is no consequence to doing that and I am supposed to panic about some swine flu?
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You have always been level-headed on everything I have ever read that you have written. I don't suppose you will be in a panic over much of anything at all. But I know what you mean. ;)
 
KEmSAT-Survival said:
most of the time they're interchangeable, but in certain connotations they are different--especially when media based.

survival = not getting dead when lost in the wilderness, et al...

survivalist = some guy in his bomb shelter with a hoard of spam, potted meat, porno mags, guns and ammo. Just waiting on "TEOTWAWKI".

Atleast that's my opinion. YMMV.
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Nothing wrong with being prepared for "whatever".... I have extra supplies tucked away, in case of losing my job and needing a buffer, or a 5 day ice storm shutting down my area for travel, or a flood coming along and wiping out Route 12, leaving me stuck. Why? Well mostly because I feel that life without a safety net is a lot more stressful then having something to fall back on. Also because all three of the reasons I stated have happened in the time we have lived where we are. Oh and the PC/BS term now isn't survivalist, it is "prepper". Survivalist is an evil word due to the Media. But the truth of the matter is you don't have to be the nutcase described above to be a survivalist.

But survival is the act of surviving, prepared or otherwise.
 
Joe Fowler said:
When I go out to the woods I go as prepared as I can. I bring food, water, means to create fire and shelter. Do I really need to know how to create or gather these things primitively? Honestly, there is more I'm learning then just the act of building a lean-to or bow-drill. I'm learning how to adapt, improvise and endure. These are skills that I find necessary in the office as well as the woods, as a dad and husband as well as on the trail. The principles are the important thing. Jeff talked about being a "survivalist" by visiting other countries. I'm a "survivalist" when I choose to tell my wife I love casserole, and not that it makes my skin crawl. ;)

It's a mindset that extends to all aspects of life.
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Great post, Joe, and exactly what we try to preach here on the forums. The guy that survives is not necessarily the guy that knows how to build the best trap, it will probably be the guy that knows a little bit about everything. We encourage people to branch out and experience as much as possible, and that means using / buying other knives besides RAT, going to different training that may do it different than we do, engaging people in friendly debates to learn more, demanding the truth from someone you're dealing with, improvising simple things, improving complicated things, learning to speak a new language, learning first aid (or advanced) life saving skills even if it's not in a formal setting, knowing how to use a wide array of weaponry....and on and on. Specialization is for insects (to steal a line)
 
Gold is a funny thing, I used to think buy low and sell high when I was in the world.

Simple picture:

A gold coin in Roman Times bought a very fine toga :)

A gold coin in colonial times bought a very nice suit of clothes; suit with waist coat and tricorn hat.

A $20 gold piece in the 20's-30's bought a really nice double breasted suit, cuffed, pleated pants, shirt, fedora hat.

In our time, a $1200 gold coin now buys a really nice Hart/Marx suit, nice pair of Johnston & Murphy shoes, etc.


Notice what is going on here, ONE gold coin still buys the same nice set of clothes it ALWAYS bought, it just cost MORE $$$$ to buy said gold coin, that is the difference.

Same in the real estate market, people thought they were going to make a fortune, they bought their house years ago for $50,000, before the bubble popped they could sell if for $200,000, a 300% increase, BUT, when they went to buy a new house, guess what, it cost them $200,000, LOL. They did not come out ahead like that thought, smoke and mirrors of the world.

THAT IS THE WORLD:


Survival, Surivalist to me means SURVIVOR:

Survivor means adapting to your environment, changing with the times, getting out of the world and into a simple, self sustainable lifestyle.

A can of green beans at Wal-Mart was .50 4 months ago, now it is .78. Next year it will be over $1.00, so as a survivor you are going to start growing your own green beans to provide for yourself and family.

Just getting back to a simple life and not feeding the machine, not buying more STUFF.

What do you really need to survive? That is the question!

Are you a follower and have to have the same car, house, clothes, fancy cell phones, etc. that all your peers have just to have the image of "being successful, or rich in the eyes of the world".

Those people don't own anything, they are making minimum payments on their "stuff", in the end, most people stuff owns them, in time needed to read about, use and maintain all of their stuff. You don't own something until it is paid off, people are really "renting/buying" from the lender until it is paid off, PERIOD.

We have to be prepared for what is coming, because dispite what news we get, we know things are not getting better and they will only get worse, so as survivors we must prepare by changing our lives now and learning the skills to survive what is to come.

That is why I am so thankful to be a part of this site, to be with others that are learning and mastering new skills to prepare themselves and families. PLUS this prepartion means you have things in place now for natural emergencies such as fires, floods, tornadoes, black/brown outs, ect.

Dont' worry about gold, buy gear!
 
If Gold is such a killer, sure-thing investment then why are all these people making commercials on TV trying to sell what such a great investment? Maybe they should just invest in their own product in quit trying to sell such a great secret, eh?
 
R.A.T. said:
If Gold is such a killer, sure-thing investment then why are all these people making commercials on TV trying to sell what such a great investment? Maybe they should just invest in their own product in quit trying to sell such a great secret, eh?
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Because they charge a 35% markup over current market value at sale and a 5% transaction fee when you sell it back? Those figures vary, but that is ball park. So if you buy it, you're "betting" on a > 40% increase in market value at resale time (3-5 years).
 
Exactly. But yet they try to bullshit you into believing this is the best kept investment secret in the world. Even got G. Gordon in on the deal (well, paid promotion got him). My point being, there are indeed better investments if you have money to invest. Makes you wonder where these companies that are selling gold are investing their $$.
 
R.A.T. said:
Exactly. But yet they try to bullshit you into believing this is the best kept investment secret in the world. Even got G. Gordon in on the deal (well, paid promotion got him). My point being, there are indeed better investments if you have money to invest. Makes you wonder where these companies that are selling gold are investing their $$.
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Yeah. But on the other hand, if the dollar completely collapses and you have some gold in small enough denominations, you will have something to barter with, along with ammo and such. It could happen.

They are probably buying up all the US made knives for when our steel industry completely collapses. I'll be a millionaire!
 
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It could happen, but if I have food and I need something you have, then gold is not going to be worth a shit as a barter tool. You can't eat, shoot, drink or screw gold. This whole gold as a survival tool BS started back in the 70s. Gold, to me, is only good if the economy doesn't collapse.
 
R.A.T. said:
If Gold is such a killer, sure-thing investment then why are all these people making commercials on TV trying to sell what such a great investment? Maybe they should just invest in their own product in quit trying to sell such a great secret, eh?
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I you want to "invest" in something....Invest in learning some skills that will keep your ass alive in such an event....then Invest in practicing those skills...Your money would be better spent taking a coarse from RAT or one of the many quality schools out there...Then invest in trips and vacations that you get to practice what you learned.....I head full of knowledge is better than a vault full of gold......Drew
 
The biggest scam in the gold bug's world is the fear-mongering that you should buy gold coins that have numismatic value because FDR didn't confiscate those types! Does anyone sane actually believe that our current brand of "leaders" would follow the Roosevelt Model for gold confiscation? I hardly think so, but it makes the brokers a hell of a lot of money selling two and three ounces "worth" of gold to someone in numismatic value but only actually handing over an ounce to them on the promise it will protect them from Big Daddy. And anyone that thinks they will get anything remotely resembling that numismatic value in survival barter really has stones in their head.

A half-dozen Krugerrands (one ounce) and perhaps twice that many fractional K-Rands or Credit Suisse, Pamp Suisse, Engelhard or Johnson Matthey one ounce or fractional ingots would definitely be nice to have socked away...but the way some people are purchasing it for whatever calamity they think is going to happen...don't think that is too smart really.
 
Let me expand on what I wrote a bit: gold is a great medium of exchange between honorable people. It is indeed the only real money. Fractional Reserve Banking is backed only by "faith" in the system. With all that said, if the economy should collapse, there are not going to be a lot of hungry, honorable people around. Mediums of exchange will be medicine, ammo, food, food animals, etc. And depending on the severity this may also include slave labor, women (don't laugh) and everything else needed to squeak out some form of a living. Only a select few will be trading in gold, and I doubt any of us are going to be that high on the totem pole.
 
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