Is there any better one hand open and close lock on a folder than an Axis lock?

mystro said:
I have them all. As much as I like my BM, I feel there are other just as fast knives with more solid blade retention. Benchmade is great but all my knives have a touch of blade play no matter how many times I adjust the pivot or take them appart to fix the issue. My Spyderco Para 2 is just as fast but has no blade movement what so ever. I have a few of each brand and the other knives act similar. The Hogue is fast and solid with no blade play as well, I just hate the idiot lock out feature on the Hogue. The fastest deployment is one of my Emerson wave knives. Nothing is even as close as a Emerson in speed of deployment. I still favore a frame or liner lock.
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You have a sweet folder collection.

On the issue of speed of deployment, I have given up on folders for that (=defensive) purposes. For me, regardless which folder I try they are just too slow and too error-prone when deploying under pressure. It takes me longer to deploy a folder clipped to my front pocket than it does to deploy an iwb pistol on my strong side. I finally went to carrying a small fixed blade in a Mercharness, for speed of deployment, which is roughly twice as fast to deploy as any folder I have. If I end up not liking the Merc after a while, next I will try a pocket holster.
 
maximus83 said:
You have a sweet folder collection.

On the issue of speed of deployment, I have given up on folders for that (=defensive) purposes. For me, regardless which folder I try they are just too slow and too error-prone when deploying under pressure. It takes me longer to deploy a folder clipped to my front pocket than it does to deploy an iwb pistol on my strong side. I finally went to carrying a small fixed blade in a Mercharness, for speed of deployment, which is roughly twice as fast to deploy as any folder I have. If I end up not liking the Merc after a while, next I will try a pocket holster.
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I never bring a knife to a gun fight......;);););)
 
Have and use both 710 with Axis and P2 with Compression, and the latter is unequivocally farther ahead in convenience, strength, design, and simplicity, period. It's also substantially quicker to deploy and much, much easier to clean.

However, one subjectively advantageous aspect of the axis lock is its ambidexterity.

I don't care there isn't a single instance of that thin watch-like omega-shaped spring breaking. And I have no brand loyalty. Thinking carefully about anything at all that can potentially happen to either locks due to their inherent engineering specs makes it a no brainer. Less smaller moving parts - the better a mechanical system is.
 
apsheron said:
Have and use both 710 with Axis and P2 with Compression, and the latter is unequivocally farther ahead in convenience, strength, design, and simplicity, period. It's also substantially quicker to deploy and much, much easier to clean.

However, one subjectively advantageous aspect of the axis lock is its ambidexterity.

I don't care there isn't a single instance of that thin watch-like omega-shaped spring breaking. And I have no brand loyalty. Thinking carefully about anything at all that can potentially happen to either locks due to their inherent engineering specs makes it a no brainer. Less smaller moving parts - the better a mechanical system is.
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I agree with the less moving parts thing...:)
Problem is there isn't a lot of knifes with the Compression lock is there??
The PM2 is a little big for my EDC needs or I would have bought one already...:):)

What other knifes have that Compression lock set up?
 
Most states have ridiculous, insulting laws like these and I wouldn't worry about them. They are specifically going after actual gravity knives and other trick knives that politicians fantasized thugs and outlaws twirling around and dueling with. Almost any folder can be whipped out rather easily without touching the blade. Actual gravity knives were junk compared to most folders and would close at least partially on a stab - you used the small lever on the side and turned it upside down or just snapped them out to the side to get past the spring resistance.

maximus83 said:
I personally have ZERO issue with that and think it's a great feature. However, my understanding is that in some locales, this very feature (falling open by use of gravity, a flick of the wrist, etc.) can make the knife illegal by definition. It depends on who's doing the interpreting of the law, of course, and most folks will never have a problem. But consider the wording of this portion of WA state law, where I live:

From http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.


It goes on to add that the only exceptions are for law enforcement officers.

Again, I don't like this legislation, and our state is working to change it with some current pending bills. However, I'm afraid this law could easily be interpreted to apply to those that open like the one described above. And of course, this could easily be applied to ANY Axis lock, which is annoying to say the least because I LIKE the Axis lock, a lot.
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OrdnanceBubbaUSMC, I couldn't agree more. The single reason behind these laws could only be that those politicians' fantasies had probably been masochistically masturbatory in nature, with the consequent self-loathing inducing the propositions.

Any animal can have them; at least it could be understood. What I don't understand (and unlikely ever will) is the reason behind the British 'no locking knives' law. It's well beyond me.
 
killgar said:
If the Axis lock is your favorite then more power to you. But I think some people go to extremes a little in there praise of the Axis. Is it really a common problem that people are cutting themselves while closing liner/frame locks? I've been using liner/frame locks for over a decade and have never cut myself in such a manner.

Has anyone actually encountered a problem from not being able to close their folder FAST ENOUGH? I can't imagine any situation where a fraction of a second difference in closing a folder could possibly matter.

I'm not particular when it comes to what lock my folders have. If it works, I'm happy. Currently, with the exception of a few old back locks, all my folders are liner/frame locks. And they work just fine for me.
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Is it really a common problem that construction cranes accidentally drop their loads? Hell no. I spent decades in construction and I remember only a few minor incidents.

Nevertheless I never walked under a crane's live load. Neither does anyone else at a building site. Violate basic safety rules and the supervisor will write your check on a road map. It may seem a needless precaution. It's not. If you skimp on safety, Murphy will pounce.

During my brief flirtation with liner locks, I was unhappily aware that I was violating basic knife safety every time I unlocked the knife. That's why I gave them up.
 
apsheron said:
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC, I couldn't agree more. The single reason behind these laws could only be that those politicians' fantasies had probably been masochistically masturbatory in nature, with the consequent self-loathing inducing the propositions.

Any animal can have them; at least it could be understood. What I don't understand (and unlikely ever will) is the reason behind the British 'no locking knives' law. It's well beyond me.
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Because people are clearly using folding locking knives to stab people with rather than common kitchen knives. Thus the logic is that anyone wishing to stab someone will always do so with a SAK or other slipjoint and the perpetrator can easily be identified by the missing fingers due to the knife closing on their fingers when they stab someone.:rolleyes:

[/sarcasm]
 
maximus83 said:
I personally have ZERO issue with that and think it's a great feature. However, my understanding is that in some locales, this very feature (falling open by use of gravity, a flick of the wrist, etc.) can make the knife illegal by definition. It depends on who's doing the interpreting of the law, of course, and most folks will never have a problem. But consider the wording of this portion of WA state law, where I live:

From http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.


It goes on to add that the only exceptions are for law enforcement officers.

Again, I don't like this legislation, and our state is working to change it with some current pending bills. However, I'm afraid this law could easily be interpreted to apply to those that open like the one described above. And of course, this could easily be applied to ANY Axis lock, which is annoying to say the least because I LIKE the Axis lock, a lot.
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I don't know about WA, but in California there is a specific exception to the "switchblade" laws for folders with ball-detents (CA penal code 17235.). Such folders are not considered "gravity knives" or "switchblades" here, even if you can flick them open one-handed. If you don't have such an exception in WA, I hope you get one.
 
Raymond1000 said:
Is it really a common problem that construction cranes accidentally drop their loads? Hell no. I spent decades in construction and I remember only a few minor incidents.

Nevertheless I never walked under a crane's live load. Neither does anyone else at a building site. Violate basic safety rules and the supervisor will write your check on a road map. It may seem a needless precaution. It's not. If you skimp on safety, Murphy will pounce.

During my brief flirtation with liner locks, I was unhappily aware that I was violating basic knife safety every time I unlocked the knife. That's why I gave them up.
Click to expand...

Comparing the use of a liner/frame lock folder to walking under a construction crane with a live load, or refering to the use of such folders as "violating basic knife safety", frankly, I just don't know how to respond to that. :confused:

Perhaps I'm just an overconfident guy, I simply rely on my common sense and manual dexterity to avoid cutting myself when closing a liner/frame lock folder. Step 1. Press lever. Step 2. Retract thumb. Step 3. close knife. Nope, not too difficult to avoid injury.

Don't take this personally. I'm just fun'in with ya.;)
 
You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but there's no way that a Para2 is "unequivocally farther ahead" of a 710 in strength. Convenience is also a real question, since whatever else is true the 710 is, among other things, easier to use with gloves or cold hands.

apsheron said:
Have and use both 710 with Axis and P2 with Compression, and the latter is unequivocally farther ahead in convenience, strength, design, and simplicity, period. It's also substantially quicker to deploy and much, much easier to clean.

However, one subjectively advantageous aspect of the axis lock is its ambidexterity.

I don't care there isn't a single instance of that thin watch-like omega-shaped spring breaking. And I have no brand loyalty. Thinking carefully about anything at all that can potentially happen to either locks due to their inherent engineering specs makes it a no brainer. Less smaller moving parts - the better a mechanical system is.
Click to expand...
 
killgar said:
Comparing the use of a liner/frame lock folder to walking under a construction crane with a live load, or refering to the use of such folders as "violating basic knife safety", frankly, I just don't know how to respond to that. :confused:

Perhaps I'm just an overconfident guy, I simply rely on my common sense and manual dexterity to avoid cutting myself when closing a liner/frame lock folder. Step 1. Press lever. Step 2. Retract thumb. Step 3. close knife. Nope, not too difficult to avoid injury.

Don't take this personally. I'm just fun'in with ya.;)
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It’s about safe habits of mind and body.

It doesn’t happen very often that a worm drive saw kicks back during a cut. But it does happen. My lifelong ambition is to be buried with all ten digits. So I keep my off hand well away from any possible kickback path. Just in case.

A carpenter I worked with as an apprentice told me “I saw someone set a skill saw down blade first. The trigger jammed on, and the guard jammed open. The saw crawled across the deck and cut off a laborer’s toes.” Ever since then I put a saw on the deck upside down. Just in case.

If I’m on a ladder I make sure it’s at the right angle and standing firmly on level ground. Just in case. Otherwise I’m not on that ladder.

When I do layout work with a transit and I change positions, I put the instrument into its case and tighten down all the holding screws. Just in case. It seems like a waste when I’m only carrying it a few hundred yards. But the extra man-minutes are cheap compared to fixing or replacing a busted transit.

I know someone who got careless with a table saw. Wrecked his hand and ended his career as a cabinet maker. I knew someone who lay underneath the forks of a loaded fork lift to work on it. It was a closed casket ceremony. I could go on but that should get the point across.

Learn about safety. Think about safety. Safety matters.

In the case of the liner lock, I’m only at risk for some bleeding and stitches. You are welcome to accept that risk. I choose not to. I don't like tools that put me in unnecessary danger.

I’m good at making stupid mistakes that end in the emergency room. I like anything that betters my odds.
 
I agree with your thoughts on how easy it can be with having one's finger in the way of closing the blade on a liner-lock.

I wasn't much of a liner-lock fan before. Then when I found out about the flipper versions, I changed my mind about them.

Since the flipper also forms a guard when the knife is open.
 
I like the Axis lock, but prefer the compression lock. For me, I can operate it much more efficiently. This may also be attributed to my time spent with the compression lock (my two most carried knives have a comp lock; Para 1 & 2).
 
gm991 said:
I never bring a knife to a gun fight......;);););)
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Sure, I carry too.

However, I like to be prepared with an EDC knife for the cases when the ammo runs out, the gun has a stoppage, or cases where I can't carry easily, like at my workplace where firearms are strictly forbidden and carrying one can get you fired if you're caught.
 
GCG199 said:
I agree with your thoughts on how easy it can be with having one's finger in the way of closing the blade on a liner-lock.

I wasn't much of a liner-lock fan before. Then when I found out about the flipper versions, I changed my mind about them.

Since the flipper also forms a guard when the knife is open.
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As I mentioned some posts/pages back, a flipper acts as a guard when the closing blade hits your finger - no cuts! :D
 
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