Is there any better one hand open and close lock on a folder than an Axis lock?

[JNewell]

(This is just a point of view on the post below, not a disagreement or argument)

For me, the lock is only part of the whole picture. The lock design is only part of that picture. The specific lock implementation matters, as an example. A Sebenza Regular is not the same to me as a Sebenza Classic/21. Beyond that, the handles (design and materials), blade opening mechanism, detents/blade retention, etc. all go into the mix.

We are all going to have different preferences...choice is good...

Very subjective but I am with Reek in the opinion that
#1 Framelock / Linerlock
#2 Axis Lock

 

[lman30]

I personally have ZERO issue with that and think it's a great feature. However, my understanding is that in some locales, this very feature (falling open by use of gravity, a flick of the wrist, etc.) can make the knife illegal by definition. It depends on who's doing the interpreting of the law, of course, and most folks will never have a problem. But consider the wording of this portion of WA state law, where I live:

From http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.


It goes on to add that the only exceptions are for law enforcement officers.

Again, I don't like this legislation, and our state is working to change it with some current pending bills. However, I'm afraid this law could easily be interpreted to apply to those that open like the one described above. And of course, this could easily be applied to ANY Axis lock, which is annoying to say the least because I LIKE the Axis lock, a lot.

I'm in California, so I can't comment on this further than my state (and I'm certainly not a lawyer or a LEO, so please, nobody take my word as law).

My father-in-law is a Detective here in my county, and other than county based length limitations (such as LA county which I thankfully don't live in), he said that generally LEO's here are fairly lax about knives, assuming you're otherwise a law-abiding citizen and the knife wasn't part of a crime such as brandishing, etc.

The reason I bring this up is that I recently got a Benchmade Adamas, but was a bit scared about being given trouble, since it is a "tactical" folder and rather large and sheeple un-friendly.

The very first thing he did when I handed him the knife was to attempt to flip it open without touching the blade or lock mechanism. After about 15 or so tries, he was able to flip it open. He said that could be an issue, if the LEO was in a bad mood that day. He did say, that since the knife has a spring detent with a tendency to stay closed, and can't easily be flipped open (or isn't obviously intended to) without disengaging the lock, it was essentially A-Ok. He said that if I wanted to be 100% sure, I could tighten up the pivot a bit so that it wouldn't flip open easily without disengaging the lock to release the detent pressure.

Short story, he said that I probably shouldn't worry about it. The part he stressed was that if you weren't otherwise "cop bait", you're pretty much good to go.


Anyways, on topic... I've tried many different knives and mechanisms, and as a Left-hander, the axis lock is the one I keep coming back to. I've tried the compression lock and it didn't really feel comfortable for me, even though I was able to operate it one-handed with practice.

The reason I think the Axis lock is the winner, is that it's one of the only truly ambidextrous designs, and it doesn't require significant repositioning of the knife in your hand to operate the lock and open/close the knife. With other designs such as the liner and compression lock, you have to turn the knife to a less secure "compromised" grip position, which increases the chances of dropping it or cutting yourself. I've had a couple close calls on liner locks, and have also dropped knives because of it, especially when otherwise occupied with a task. FYI I consider myself to have very good dexterity; I've played guitar for many, many years, and work with hand tools for a living. In all fairness, though, I can be rather clumsy with smaller knives because of the size of my hands, for very much the same reason that I'm unable to properly shuffle cards.

 

[Leek_Freak]

I saw this thread when it started and first thought of a few knives I thought would compare...so I had to get them out and play with them. Keep in mind, these are simply my opinons/observations.

The Kershaw RAM is faster opening, but slower closing (I thought this was going to be a tie).
The Spydercos I tried were both a little slower opening and closing.
The Hogue I tried was equal, but took a little more effort then the Axis lock.

For the comments on frame locks and liner locks, I don't think I could ever close one as quickly and easily as the Axis lock.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Have and use both 710 with Axis and P2 with Compression, and the latter is unequivocally farther ahead in convenience, strength, design, and simplicity, period. It's also substantially quicker to deploy and much, much easier to clean.

However, one subjectively advantageous aspect of the axis lock is its ambidexterity.

I don't care there isn't a single instance of that thin watch-like omega-shaped spring breaking. And I have no brand loyalty. Thinking carefully about anything at all that can potentially happen to either locks due to their inherent engineering specs makes it a no brainer. Less smaller moving parts - the better a mechanical system is.

I think you need to throw in a big fat bold "IMO" to your post. The only thing unequivocal is your preference for the compression lock. I love the compression lock, right behind the AXIS lock. How is the compression lock more convenient? How is it more strong. Both locks use a lockbar to transfer closing forces to a stop pin. Even Sal has said that all the upper end locks are essentially the same in regards to overall strength. Considering Spyderco has one of the few machines made to break, record, and analyze folding knives, I trust his word. Again, not sure how the design is "better" as it is just a different design that accomplishes the same thing in a similar manner. I guess simplicity goes hand in hand with moving parts. Well they both have a blade that rotates, both have a lockbar that wedges itself between blade tang and stop pin. So I guess the 2 omega springs which do flex and technically move, make for a substantially more complex lock? Also not sure how the compression is substantially faster to deploy? I find my AXIS lock faster, but they are both fast so I don't know where the substantial description comes into play? They also both have open back construction so should be similar to clean. Unless you are talking about disassembling the knives, in which case the AXIS lock is a lot.easier in my experience. The Para 2 has the stepped bushing and the pressed in lanyard tube. To get the blade out the lanyard tube has to be pressed out or the knife scales pried apart putting a lot of stress on the handle scales.

A more simple design can be good. But not if it is not as reliable or not as strong. I would be curious if there are any engineers that don't like the AXIS lock. From an engineering stand point, the AXIS lock is a very elegant design that addresses the problems and issues a lock on a folding knife face. Now these are my opinions, but I would happy to debate them and try to back up why I feel the way I do.

It is one thing to not like something, and totally fine. It's another to talk down something without at least explaining your opinion. Throwing out some descriptive words to talk down something is very hollow and not very substantial.

And for those that said a lockback, and the Triad in particular, as being as fast as an AXIS lock, I would love to see a picture of your hands. Never seen 5 thumbs on one hand before. Now if the common discussion of strength were being discussed then I would expect the Triad to be brought up. But in my experience the backlock, and the Triad in particular with its long lock throw, is absolutely one of the slowest designs available. IMO of course.

 

[apsheron]

I think you need to throw in a big fat bold "IMO" to your post. The only thing unequivocal is your preference for the compression lock. I love the compression lock, right behind the AXIS lock. How is the compression lock more convenient? How is it more strong. Both locks use a lockbar to transfer closing forces to a stop pin. Even Sal has said that all the upper end locks are essentially the same in regards to overall strength. Considering Spyderco has one of the few machines made to break, record, and analyze folding knives, I trust his word. Again, not sure how the design is "better" as it is just a different design that accomplishes the same thing in a similar manner. I guess simplicity goes hand in hand with moving parts. Well they both have a blade that rotates, both have a lockbar that wedges itself between blade tang and stop pin. So I guess the 2 omega springs which do flex and technically move, make for a substantially more complex lock? Also not sure how ...

It's the spring. Not too verbose?

 

[tsuba]

opening ~> a lot of concurrence on the market
opening + closing ~> otf double action 1st, axis 2nd

 

[cziv]

opening ~> a lot of concurrence on the market
opening + closing ~> otf double action 1st, axis 2nd

opening + closing with a piece of paper held in front ~> otf double action last, axis 1st

 

[StaTiK]

The reason I think the Axis lock is the winner, is that it's one of the only truly ambidextrous designs, and it doesn't require significant repositioning of the knife in your hand to operate the lock and open/close the knife.

I don't own a compression lock but I find that I have to significantly reposition my BM to operate the axis lock. Maybe the knife is too new and hasn't been "broken in" yet but the spring on mine is tough and difficult to overcome without repositioning.
-StaTiK-

 

[jossta]

I find a good framelock or liner lock are my favorites for one handed operation by far but some of these locks work better on certain knives than others.

Axis Lock? Eh . . .

+1. I don't hate the Axis lock, but it's not my favorite.

 

[bdmicarta]

Nope, there is nothing as well designed as the AXIS. Even the clones aren’t quite as good, for various reasons.

It’s the only lock that offers a lightning fast opening AND closing, with only one hand.

I can pull out an AXIS folder from my pocket, snap it open, cut a cord, wrist snap the knife closed, and have it back in my pocket in three seconds.

I've had a lot of linerlocks. I like that design but I am always careful and observant when I close one. Just once not getting your thumb out of the way would make for a bad day. I bought a Benchmade mini-Grip for EDC, I didn't really care about the axis lock but bought it for other reasons. Actually I remember when that lock came out, I couldn't understand what was wrong with linerlocks that caused them to invent another lock. But I noticed after using the axis that it was faster and easier, and took less concentration when closing. Like I said I always try to concentrate on the closing operation so it will be safe, but sometimes you might be distracted, or it is dark, or (hopefully not) you have been drinking, or whatever. A little less concentration on the closing operation could be a problem, much less likely to happen with the axis lock. I still will buy and carry linerlocks though.

I won't do the "flicking closed" thing. In my mind too much chance of an accident. I had one accident with a lockback where I pinched the lock and when the blade released it flicked closed, on my finger. That was a tough lesson to learn but I learned it.

I wasn't aware that Spyderco even made locks other than lockback. All of the ones that I own are lockback and I'm sure that all of the ones I have handled in the past were lockback. I've got one of those big CRKT's with the big flipper, and yes the flipper reminds you to get your digits out of the way.

 

[MassMatt]

I find liner locks and frame locks the easiest to operate w/ one hand, I find the axis/ball bearing locks more awkward as I generally need to get my finger contorted around on the release to close, whereas the others I can release with just my thumb.

 

[MRaymond]

The compression lock is very intuitive and easy/safe to use one handed and it really is solid competition for the axis lock when comparing what I have and am familiar with. The best thing about the compression lock in my mind is once it is disengaged, the blade just falls closed, no effort, no flicking, just disengage and let it fall. You need a little extra effort with an axis lock unless you flip it closed. IMO

 

[6leafdom]

alot of premium production knives have very smooth opening now.... and i realize this new "ball bearings pivot system" its starting to get popular. appearently its even smoother than CRK knives.