Is This Hunting?

G L Drew

G L Drew

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
4,808
I watched a show on the Outdoor Channel last night about a guy in Texas that owns 3,000 acres of brush country and "hunts" over his food plots. He feeds the deer high protien and fat to increase the size of the racks and than sits in a raised blind over the deer food and shoots the biggest set of antlers. Since I was 16, I have hunted deer in the woods using minimal equipment, bow and arrow, muzzle loader and years ago, a 30-30 with iron sights. I have enjoyed packing in and staying in the woods for days to hunt away from the maddening crowds (it amazes me how some guys never travel more that 1//4 mile from the road). I have seen several shows on TV where deer are taken over piles of corn or food plots. Usually the the commentary is "there's a nice one, lets shoot it". Do you guys have an opinion about this? Maybe someone could explain the joy of shooting a half tamed deer out of a plywood box... might as well shoot someone's cow.
 
At best, you could say that they are "harvesting" an animal, but it definitely is not hunting. I admire the approach that you're taking, but that's probably too rigorous for the great majority of hunters.
 
There is a broad spectrum of opinion as to what constitutes "hunting". Watching "canned hunts" on tv, one would get the impresssion that the deer was released from a stock trailer just off camera, walks to a chosen spot on cue, then is shot. It isn't a lot different from watching a so-called "survival show", in that the production crew and star have a basic script to follow and time constraints in which to get it on film and move on. You don't get to see all the preparations, the endless hours of no action. All that is either not filmed or left on the cutting room floor.

The Texas hunter has ten times the investment in time and money that an independent still hunter on public land has. He is on the land twelve months out of the year, and hunts the way he sees fit, as long as it is lawful.

I guess what it all boils down to is not what you consider "hunting", but ethical hunting according to your own personal ethics. Feeding, baiting, use of hounds, weapon choices, stalking or still hunting, sitting on the limb of a tree, or in a climbing stand, tower stand, ladder stand, box stand, or a ground blind, all are open to personal preferences which we interpret as "ethics". Many times, regional ethics drive game laws, not sound management practices.

I'll not say that the fellow using a high powered cartridge gun with scope is any less an ethical sportsman than the man using a primitive self bow, or a knife. Or that deer which are under an active, intense management program are less sporting to hunt that deer you have no part in managing eleven months out of the year. To each his own.

Codger
 
My Webster's dictionary defines Harvest as "to gather in a crop." It defines Hunt as "the act of chasing wild animals for the purpose of catching them." IMHO, this man is harvesting his crop, legitimately so since he has an investment in time, land and animal management, as Codger said. But again IMHO, he is not hunting.
 
I heard a great comedian say once, "Armor piercing rounds? Is the deer in a vest? That's not hunting...Hunting is walking naked into a cave and slapping a bear in the face with a spatula."
 
I don't believe it is hunting , I have several deer in my back yard eating off the trees and I would not shoot them and call it hunting.:rolleyes:
 
According to my "Codger's Dictionary", deer (and other fish and wildlife) are a natural resource. They are a sustainable resource precisely because sportsmen banded together to make laws, and agencies to administer the laws concerning a sustainable harvest. A few U.S. States still have archaic names for their agencies, like Arkansas' Game And Fish Comission, but in most areas, they are DNR's, Department of Natural Resources.

These resources exist today because of extensive management and restocking efforts. A key element of the management is controlled harvest. Yes, "wild deer" are a crop. If you buy a license, or any hunting equipment, you too participate in the management of the crop.

Some areas concentrate on sustaining a maximum population level that the habitat can support because that is what the supporting sportsmen want. These agencies (and individuals) manipulate the habitat to provide more, better food sources. This allows opportunities for more sportsmen to hunt, and if successful, to harvest a deer. In other areas, the emphasis is on quality, not quantity. Sportsmen there want trophy sized animals, albeit fewer of them. Most areas try to strike a balance between the two.

You may think you are hunting a "wild deer" because you don't see the management going on behind the scenes, or because you prefer to hunt with primitive methods, but I think you are harvesting a managed resource. If you score. Otherwise, according to "Codger's Dictionary", you are hunting for a deer to harvest.

Codger
 
I think Codger said it pretty well. In my mind it all boils down to ethics, but what constitutes ethical behavior is obviously not gonna be the same for everyone. I'm with you Mr. Drew. I don't see the joy in that type of so called "hunting" at all. Just my $.02.
 
I think its Harvesting not Hunting. I wish I could go for several days to Hunt!!!
I don't even have a day to go Harvest
V-man
 
Oh, I personally agree that it is not the way I prefer to hunt. I have deer in my yard year round, and chase them out of my garden too. But I do hunt here on my farm. Just because I know where the deer hang out, pattern them year after year, sleep in my own bed at night, hunt with a scope on my rifle since my eyesight isn't what it used to be, plant clover in the lower pastures and a few turnips around the edges for the deer, set up comfortable stands where I have a good chance of seeing deer does not make me an unethical hunter, at least in my opinion. I also take young deer and does rather than spend all my time looking for that monster buck so I can have the fame of showing off his antlers. Sure, I've taken my share of nce bucks over the years, but it does not drive my hunting habits. I also enjoyed many fall and winter hunts from rustic backwoods cabins, from shanty tent camps, and while living out of a backpack too. I hunted deer with hounds, and still hunted too. I've never hunted over bait, but I suppose had it been legal, I might have at some time. I've hunted with a knife only, and with a pistol. I use a bare recurve, not a compound or a crossbow. This state has decided that hunting with a knife is not ethical, and since it is not specifically on their list of lawful "means", it is not legal to use a knife. Or a boar spear.

As I said in my first post, everyone has their own interpretation as to what is ethical, sporting, fair chase, or just what makes their hunt most enjoyable for them. No problem.

Codger
 
Do you mean you didn't like the lounge chair I had in that stand?:D
Why weren't you at the last show here in town? Good to see you on the forums.
 
A few years ago my dad was all hyped up to go hunting on a pheasant pharm. I went along to humor him. He wasn't as mobile as he had been and walking hundreds of yards wasn't in the cards.

I had envisioned birds being released from wire cages and popping up like skeet shooting.

We had a great day. The stocked birds acted enough like the real thing that it was like getting into lots of birds on any other farm. The birds were a bit slower than native birds but it was a good time. He was paying for it...we had fun.

I would much rather take my chances in Iowa on natural birds but that was the last time I hunted with my dad and it is a good memory.

As far as deer are concerned, they are a by-product of modern agriculture in much of the country. The word "harvest" is very fitting. If you want to hunt deer in their natural habitat then hike into the forest. Killing them as they come to graze at the edge of a cut cornfield is harvesting game and a great way to limit the population and fill the freezer. I have nothing against it. Mac
 
Codger has summed things up very nicely and I have very little to add. However it seems that hunters, especially those that choose to hunt with primitive means, are the worst people in the world to cry foul if someone takes game with another method. Game laws are not made by accident, in most cases there is a sound, logical reason why they are made. If it is legal and someone wishs to hunt that way, so be it, it is no skin off my butt if they do so. Just because it is not the way I wish to hunt or don't think it is the most sportsmanlike way to put game in the pot I have no problems with other people doing it what so ever.
 
The first hunt I went on with my 30-30 and the first deer I saw was taken . Since then I have hunted with a traditional bow and arrows for seven years . I have not taken a deer . I have seen deer every year I could have taken with my 30-30 . It was my choice to hunt by a different method . It is not more or less ethical .

A hunter over a bait pile with a managed deer ? That is his choice .

The ethics of hunting boil down to how hungry you are and how many mouths you have to feed .
 
My buddies and I plant greenfields as a way to attract does for "harvest" to fill the freezer and to manage the population. It is farming, pure and simple. If we keep the numbers down, and don't shoot the small bucks, we have an opportunity to hunt mature bucks in the woods. That, to me, is hunting. Scouting, picking treestand sites, scent control, persistence, all present a challenge. I have no argument with those who hunt over food (where legal), but I surely don't see the excitement.
 
Codger_64 said:
You may think you are hunting a "wild deer" because you don't see the management going on behind the scenes, or because you prefer to hunt with primitive methods, but I think you are harvesting a managed resource. If you score. Otherwise, according to "Codger's Dictionary", you are hunting for a deer to harvest.

Codger
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with Codger - all hunting is harvesting, but not all harvesting is hunting. In other words, hunting is just a challenging way to harvest game. At what point it's challenging enough to be considered hunting depends on your opinion and perspective. As a kid, sometimes I'd take the shotgun instead of my .22 when I went to hunt squirrel. But honestly, it didn't feel much like hunting. Felt more like blowing squirrels out of the trees. But when you're feeling lazy and just want some squirrel to eat - well, harvesting with a 12 gauge is okay.

In my opinion, a rifle is just a kitchen utensil - no different than a knife or a frying pan.
 
There is very little public land in Texas.
Having 3000 acres to hunt on and owning it
is a blessing in this State.
Most Texas hunters have about 1200 acres
or less that they lease to hunt on and share
with 4 to 12 other hunters.Gives you about 100 to 300 acres per hunter.
Attracting deer ,turkey and quail with food plots and feeders
is common practice here ,if you manage your food plot and
feeders correctly you "might" see a legal deer in some areas,
while other areas are overrun with deer due to not enough hunters
and the cost of getting a lease and access to the land.
The big bucks are nocturnal and a few are taken during breeding season
when they start roaming during the day.I try to pattern the deer and stalk
hunt in some of these small areas late in the season after everyone else
has quit hunting.I am in my stand opening morning with one or more of my
grandsons letting them get that first shot.
 
Why are we getting caught up in semantics, hunting/harvesting, who cares? Grab your rifle, bow, shotgun, crossbow, muzzle loader or what ever, get out, enjoy nature and legally enjoy shooting animals, different strokes for different folks. I think that all of those who hunt should not put down what others enjoy as long as it is legal, there is too much in fighting in the hunting ranks. Chris
 
I just participated in an Early muzzeloader hunt on the Eastern shore where the guy had some 200+ acres of corn/woods/alfalpha and soybean. with water closing off the backside. He had the stands set up on the edges of these fields at some of the stands. I sat all day and saw nothing. My father shot a nice 8 point but it was only the 5th deer he saw all day. Another hunter killed 2 does and reported seeing alot of deer. Even though I was in an area that seemed perfect and hunted hard all day I saw NO deer. To me that is not easy hunting. Now what they dont show on TV is how many hunts do go as they planned where the deer dont show up or just scrub bucks show up. Smart bucks dont always show up to feeders and what not. But every place is diff.

I like what Codger said as its to each his own. My fav kind of hunting is with a bow after a rain and still hunting through creek bottoms on my own land. I have taken alot of deer that way and nothing gets my heart racing like drawing back on a deer with a bow. The only time I get "buck fever" with a gun anymore is with a nice buck.

I dono maybe its the depression talking but I dont think I will pay for another whitetail deer hunt. My next trip is outwest for Elk and Muley's.
 
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