Issue with member “Archer59”

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Any solution which has me playing a sort of back and forth ping pong to repair the knife and have it shipped back to me makes this one seriously sour and very expensive deal, with international shipping and customs again charging me and holding it on the return end here another month, no way.

Taking a day off work to argue my case to a customs inspector?

The knife is not worth it.

Trying to sell it off as sealed? Never in my book, it's defective and if something like this leaves my hands it will be sold off as one and with a price reflecting it's worth, my reputation goes for a lot more than a couple hundred bucks.

Sealed box or not is a lame excuse, any seller has the ethical obligation to inspect the product and insure the buyer is satisfied, we talked about good faith and integrity right?

I guess to some people it means more than coins.

Some time ago I completed a purchase of another BM knife I will not name the forum, it was sold as BNIB, it was not, it was used and resharpened, I could tell because of the very an even grinds and the grit used, BM uses a lower grit to sharpen, I let it go, BS like that just goes with the territory.

The only solution acceptable to me is to return the knife for a full refund, the seller will have BM's warranty take care of it and sell for any price he sees fit and me having nothing more to do with him.

With the EMS shipping and customs I already took a hit of more than $100 and for what, a defective black class BM knife?
 
BM-EDC said:
It’s the dumbest thing to accuse someone of doing. Why the F would I knowingly sell someone a defective knife and risk blowback when I could have sent it in to be repaired (for free!) myself before selling? Makes zero sense.
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Why would you unknowingly sell someone a defective knife when it could have been so easily prevented? You sold a knife with a defect and didn't disclose it had a defect. Whether or not you knew is utterly irrelevant. What he paid you for was a brand new knife in perfect condition and that's NOT what he got.
 
Benchmade does use those little circular pieces of tape to "seal" their boxes, but I've had several where the tape can easily be peeled off and stuck back on with no damage to the tape or box. I think it was bad judgment by both parties ...one for selling the knife without inspecting it, and the other for buying the knife without seeing pictures. As a buyer, I'm sure I'd have the same concerns that Archer59 had about the box being "resealed". And as a seller, I can definitely understand that BM-EDC feels like he delivered exactly what was described in his ad...a box that had never been opened that a buyer was willing to roll the dice on. I can't say what the right thing to do to rectify this situation is, but hopefully you guys can find a way to get it sorted out.
 
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The reason it was never inspected is because I decided to sell it before I ever took delivery of it. Plenty of large retailers send out knives sealed in original packaging without inspecting them. Like this one, which came from SMKW.

I wanted the new buyer to have that opportunity. I could have easily sent it back to Lifesharp when I sent in several others at the same time, so accusing me of intentionally defrauding him is ridiculous. I just dumped $1500 in knives, yet he thinks I tried to scam him over $300.

Like I said, I sold a knife new in sealed factory box. That is what I shipped. The description in my ad is clear as day. The buyer assumed that risk.

The damage (which is highly questionable that even left the factory that way on a limited edition knife) is 100% on Benchmade.

Not to mention chain of custody issues after it left my hands. I have no idea what happened to it after I shipped it except that it was delivered to the third party in WA.

Pretty petty and arrogant for the buyer to assume MY time and money is worthless and I can play middle man for an issue that is now between him and Benchmade.

Approaching me with this issue in an accusatory, rude, threatening way is absurd. Who does business that way? I feel as though I am the one being scammed, or extorted here.

So yeah, as far as I’m concerned Archer59 can pound sand.
 
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BM-EDC said:
The reason it was never inspected is because I decided to sell it before I ever took delivery of it. Plenty of large retailers send out knives sealed in original packaging without inspecting them. Like this one, which came from SMKW.

I wanted the new buyer to have that opportunity. I could have easily sent it back to Lifesharp when I sent in several others at the same time, so accusing me of intentionally defrauding him is ridiculous. I just dumped $1500 in knives, yet he thinks I tried to scam him over $300.

Like I said, I sold a knife new in sealed factory box. That is what I shipped. The description in my ad is clear as day. The buyer assumed that risk.

The damage (which is highly questionable that even left the factory that way on a limited edition knife) is 100% on Benchmade.

Not to mention chain of custody issues after it left my hands. I have no idea what happened to it after I shipped it except that it was delivered to the third party in WA.

Pretty petty and arrogant for the buyer to assume MY time and money is worthless and I can play middle man for an issue that is now between him and Benchmade.

Approaching me with this issue in an accusatory, rude, threatening way is absurd. Who does business that way? I feel as though I am the one being scammed, or extorted here.

So yeah, as far as I’m concerned Archer59 can pound sand.
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You're right, plenty of large retailers do that. Guess what their customers do if they recieve a knife like this? THEY RETURN IT! You failed to disclose a defect. Period. End of story. Doesn't matter that you didn't know about it, that's literally no kind of excuse.
 
There is no way to prove when or where that damage occurred. See the issue here?

The seller assumed that risk when he knowingly purchased an unopened, uninspected knife. I made zero comments or promises about the knife outside of my description which was 100% accurate.

I specifically said US sales only because I have zero interest in dealing with customs and associated shipping costs, and whatever else may be involved. The buyer had someone in the US willing to jump through those hoops for him. That’s the only reason I agreed to the sale. Lesson learned.
 
BM-EDC said:
There is no way to prove when or where that damage occurred. See the issue here?

The seller assumed that risk when he knowingly purchased an unopened, uninspected knife. I made zero comments or promises about the knife outside of my description which was 100% accurate.

I specifically said US sales only because I have zero interest in dealing with customs and associated shipping costs, and whatever else may be involved. The buyer had someone in the US willing to jump through those hoops for him. That’s the only reason I agreed to the sale. Lesson learned.
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No, I don't see the issue. You have absolutely no evidence about when the damage occurred because YOU failed to gather said evidence. You description was inaccurate because it was incomplete as you didn't do the most basic due diligence possible. You didn't sell him a box, you sold him a knife, and the knife you sold had a giant defect that you failed to disclose.
 
I am going to disagree with you at least in part Insipid Moniker Insipid Moniker I believe that B BM-EDC did not misrepresent what he sold and that unfortunately the risk was assumed by the purchaser in this case A Archer59 . It was sold as Sealed NIB so all defects and issues become the responsibility of the buyer in a private sale such as this. If it was bought from a vendor like SMKW directly yes the seller has a responsibility as it is an expectation of the dealer to handle defective merchandise. This was not it was a private sale this is unfortunate for A Archer59 but I don't see any deceit from B BM-EDC at this time certainly none that appears intentional. I have seen it brought up that there is some question over the authenticity of the seal and that is something BM or the Vendor could have done. If BM doesn't seal their products or don't seal them in that way the vendor it was purchased from might seal their products when shipping. I do agree that B BM-EDC could have opened the knife inspected it and ensured the knife was not defective prior to selling it but that isn't something everyone wants to do for reasons including the fact some buyers may value the fact the product is unopened.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
No, I don't see the issue. You have absolutely no evidence about when the damage occurred because YOU failed to gather said evidence. You description was inaccurate because it was incomplete as you didn't do the most basic due diligence possible. You didn't sell him a box, you sold him a knife, and the knife you sold had a giant defect that you failed to disclose.
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I'm with you most of the time, but have to disagree here. I liken this to selling/buying a "mystery box." The seller made it clear that he hadn't opened the box. The buyer knew the box hadn't been opened. The way I see it, the sale wasn't of any particular knife in any particular condition. It was was of an unopened box. The risk is on the buyer, IMO. That said, if the buyer hadn't jumped straight to accusatory a**hole mode, I'd say that the seller should probably have accepted a return/refund resolution.
 
HappyDaddy said:
I'm with you most of the time, but have to disagree here. I liken this to selling/buying a "mystery box." The seller made it clear that he hadn't opened the box. The buyer knew the box hadn't been opened. The way I see it, the sale wasn't of any particular knife in any particular condition. It was was of an unopened box. The risk is on the buyer, IMO. That said, if the buyer hadn't jumped straight to accusatory a**hole mode, I'd say that the seller should probably have accepted a return/refund resolution.
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I agree this buyer is a jerk, but this wasn't a mystery box, nor was it described as such. This was described and sold as a knife, new in box. He wasn't selling the box with the chance to get something inside he was selling the product.

You cannot absolve yourself of responsibility by failing to inspect a product. That's clearly the seller dropping the ball. The buyer still has every reason and right to expect a new in box knife without defects.

The argument you're making is that it would be the buyer's fault if he opened the box and it turned out to be a potato peeler.
 
PirateSeulb said:
I am going to disagree with you at least in part Insipid Moniker Insipid Moniker I believe that B BM-EDC did not misrepresent what he sold and that unfortunately the risk was assumed by the purchaser in this case A Archer59 . It was sold as Sealed NIB so all defects and issues become the responsibility of the buyer in a private sale such as this. If it was bought from a vendor like SMKW directly yes the seller has a responsibility as it is an expectation of the dealer to handle defective merchandise. This was not it was a private sale this is unfortunate for A Archer59 but I don't see any deceit from B BM-EDC at this time certainly none that appears intentional. I have seen it brought up that there is some question over the authenticity of the seal and that is something BM or the Vendor could have done. If BM doesn't seal their products or don't seal them in that way the vendor it was purchased from might seal their products when shipping. I do agree that B BM-EDC could have opened the knife inspected it and ensured the knife was not defective prior to selling it but that isn't something everyone wants to do for reasons including the fact some buyers may value the fact the product is unopened.
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How is the fact that it's a private sale any different?
 
Buying a knife based on a pic of a box? You're gonna have a bad day.

Proxy sales to tire kickers? You're gonna have a bad day.

Lotta stuff seems to have gone wrong here. Best practice would be for the buyer to return the knife at his expense and the seller then to refund the price of the knife less freight. Then the seller can send to the factory and re-set the sale.

For sure no one's happy but this appears to be for the best. Then in the future that proxy should check the stuff before exporting to be sure the buyer is happy.
 
HappyDaddy said:
I'm with you most of the time, but have to disagree here. I liken this to selling/buying a "mystery box." The seller made it clear that he hadn't opened the box. The buyer knew the box hadn't been opened. The way I see it, the sale wasn't of any particular knife in any particular condition. It was was of an unopened box. The risk is on the buyer, IMO. That said, if the buyer hadn't jumped straight to accusatory a**hole mode, I'd say that the seller should probably have accepted a return/refund resolution.
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I agree. Given the conditions of the sale, how do you think the buyer would have responded had the seller opened the box and broken the seal prior to shipping? I'm pretty sure that we'd be reading about how the seller cheated him here.

As was stated earlier, if the buyer requested an inspection or pictures of the knife before shipping this could have been avoided. He chose to purchase it on the terms listed, through a 3rd party, and now we have this situation.

I think the buyer's options are limited. He can pay for shipping to return it to the seller for a refund, or he can deal with BM to get it fixed or replaced. I understand that he's disappointed with the condition of what he received, and it's unfortunate, but it's unreasonable to expect the seller to take the hit on this given the situation.
 
The difference to me is in expectations I have different expectations and assume more risk in a private sale than in a purchase from a business. I expect a business to accept returns for more reasons than I expect an individual private sale such as purchasing a defective item and being able to return, usually as an exchange, the defective item to the place I purchased it. I would however not expect a private seller to handle an issue of a defective item when I purchased said item new and sealed and would expect to have to deal with the manufacturer myself. I might politely attempt to work out a return with the seller but I don't have any expectation of them to accept it and even less for them to be able to manage exchanging/replacing the defective item.
 
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